Starcraft 2 Tourney

[Skelogon]

Originally Posted by OneHandNow

Does that really work? Won't you get wiped out 1 by 1?

No, that strategy never fail for me, the other team members just need to play defensively. Even if one or two of your allies died, it would give enough time for the the person getting feed to get all tech up and an army larger than the opponents. Whenever I use that strategy, I always have a base somewhere constantly feeding the toss, even if my main was destroyed.

If done correctly, the toss would be able to warp in 16+ stalkers every few minutes, at least 10 in the first 5 minute of the game.

[OneHandNow]

Originally Posted by cixOclock

Quick trivia for you guys...

How many actions per minute can the Pro gamer in Korea make while playing Starcraft?

And see if you could even last ten minutes...

Well there's a problem.

Starcraft I (BW) requires extensive APM because of the unit limit (12) and building limit (1).. Starcraft II (WOL) requires less because of the ability to select multiple productions facilities and units and once, requiring less hotkeys to be used. Also, Starcraft II is more macro-based, and thus micro (which contributes also to APM) is cancelled out.

Having said that, I don't think anybody plays Starcraft II with 300+ APM, at least not consistently in all the matches, all the time.

Korean pros however, probably will.

[Skelogon]

Originally Posted by cixOclock

Quick trivia for you guys...

How many actions per minute can the Pro gamer in Korea make while playing Starcraft?

And see if you could even last ten minutes...

For starcraft 1 - at least 300; for starcraft 2 - 200
imo

[Hakulyte]

I'm sort of back to FFR since I got Master League everywhere.. people are just starting to talk about my marine/scv rush on forums in 1v1 lmao, except that they somehow got a faster one but easier to scout too by walling at bottom of ramp with 1 rax and 1 supply and directly getting the 2 other rax + supply drop with orbital and push..

x2 10 pool + 3 rax or/and fast stalkers is usually gg in most 3v3/4v4. (constant aggression with zerglings)
10 pool + 3 rax seems to work well enough in 2v2 to get master on placement..
Marine/scv still work to get 1v1 master..

So, yeah easy cheesing to master.. once you guys are there, play some real masters check their replays copy epic macro build, adapt it. /gg
Still got team wins to get but whatever, not in an hurry.. /don't care anymore lol

I'd like to "learn 2 play" 1v1 macro games without having an impact on fun factor in sc2, but it's not easy.. when your whole game is a timing war and everything feels forced, I'm not sure what to think..

btw are we going to have a tournament here some day or it's just your "let's talk about sc2" thread? xD

[Wineandbread]

Well since this thread has more or less been changed into a general SC/SC2 discussion thread

Anyone frequent TL?

I just recently finished up the Savior Final Edit spotlight, it was a damn good read; I knew Savior was really good in his prime but it really made me appreciate him as a player on a whole new level. Sucks for the whole match-fixing scandal tho ):

[OneHandNow]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I'm sort of back to FFR since I got Master League everywhere.. people are just starting to talk about my marine/scv rush on forums in 1v1 lmao, except that they somehow got a faster one but easier to scout too by walling at bottom of ramp with 1 rax and 1 supply and directly getting the 2 other rax + supply drop with orbital and push..

x2 10 pool + 3 rax or/and fast stalkers is usually gg in most 3v3/4v4. (constant aggression with zerglings)
10 pool + 3 rax seems to work well enough in 2v2 to get master on placement..
Marine/scv still work to get 1v1 master..

So, yeah easy cheesing to master.. once you guys are there, play some real masters check their replays copy epic macro build, adapt it. /gg
Still got team wins to get but whatever, not in an hurry.. /don't care anymore lol

I'd like to "learn 2 play" 1v1 macro games without having an impact on fun factor in sc2, but it's not easy.. when your whole game is a timing war and everything feels forced, I'm not sure what to think..

btw are we going to have a tournament here some day or it's just your "let's talk about sc2" thread? xD

Pushing when? What food count? I'm only Master 3v3/4v4 atm.. 1v1 I'm stuck in gold -_-. 2v2, diamond. Halp.

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by OneHandNow

Pushing when? What food count? I'm only Master 3v3/4v4 atm.. 1v1 I'm stuck in gold -_-. 2v2, diamond. Halp.

1v1, take terran.

10 supply bottom of your ramp and send scv to scout
11 rax finish wall (make a 2 supply wall if ramp is too big @ Scrap Station or something and keep energy on orbital for mules in case fight is a tie so you can come back and win with a 2nd push but you don't need to bother with that if you map vote block Scrap Station, Typhon Peak and that other map I forgot..)
12 rax
12 rax
13 orbital (12 scv +1 marine)
14-27 = spam marine

There's no 2nd supply because you use supply drop from orbital and send everything around 4:15. Obviously, you go clear Xel'Naga Towers before you do this so they don't spot you too fast. Repeat until master league. /gg

I believe league are locked right now and they're proceeding to modification with how the ladder works but there's nothing mentioned on the site as usual. Anyway, if you can promote or demote league are no longer worked and you can ignore this. It's just in case you're rank 1 and don't promote.

2v2

1 Terran
1 Zerg

Terran do my 1v1 build
Zerg

10 Pool
10 Overlord (send overlord close to enemy base high ground to have vision so marines can shoot/snipe a building etc.)
10 Extractor
13 Zergling (6 lings directly for aggression)
15 Queen
16 Zergling
17 Overlord
etc.
Send drones to gas x3 (send back to mineral at 100 gas) when pool is done.
Get Speed upgrade
Spam Zerglings nonstop and micro them to harass.
Once the Terran got his mini marine ball regroup with him and go kill 1 player, always stay with marines at this point to maximize dps per area.
2v1 the other guy and it's usually gg.

I suggest doing this in team placement with some new people and try to 5-0 wins placement match so you get instantly master league if that's your goal.

[CrashJet555]

I would like to play, North American Platinum player, don't play regularly.

[Reach]

Originally Posted by OneHandNow

Pushing when? What food count? I'm only Master 3v3/4v4 atm.. 1v1 I'm stuck in gold -_-. 2v2, diamond. Halp.

If you're in gold for 1v1 and aren't interested in cheese, you should play a more econ focused game. I can beat the vast vast majority of players that don't cheese me or catch me off guard with a timing by just mining more minerals than them and making more production facilities (and of course, making sure I spend all of my minerals and gas).

The fact of the matter is, most low level players I play and roll simply do not expand fast enough and do not make enough workers. They're particularly too slow to take a third and if they expand tend to sit on 2 base for way too long.

Go for meaty compositions that are hard to counter if you're toss/terran, i.e. colossi+stalker+sentry (adding zealots can help, depends on opps unit comp), or marine/marauder/medi/tank/viking. These comps do not have hard counters and if you are outproducing your opponent you can break them down.

If you're zerg you have to be a bit more flexible, sadly. I don't think zerg is UP at all, but is a bit harder to play because their unit compositions are more fragile and they're vulnerable early on.

[OneHandNow]

Originally Posted by Reach

If you're in gold for 1v1 and aren't interested in cheese, you should play a more econ focused game. I can beat the vast vast majority of players that don't cheese me or catch me off guard with a timing by just mining more minerals than them and making more production facilities (and of course, making sure I spend all of my minerals and gas).

The fact of the matter is, most low level players I play and roll simply do not expand fast enough and do not make enough workers. They're particularly too slow to take a third and if they expand tend to sit on 2 base for way too long.

Go for meaty compositions that are hard to counter if you're toss/terran, i.e. colossi+stalker+sentry (adding zealots can help, depends on opps unit comp), or marine/marauder/medi/tank/viking. These comps do not have hard counters and if you are outproducing your opponent you can break them down.

If you're zerg you have to be a bit more flexible, sadly. I don't think zerg is UP at all, but is a bit harder to play because their unit compositions are more fragile and they're vulnerable early on.

See that's the problem! I can't react & adapt fast enough.. I guess that comes with time and training.

For example, I play T&Z, half half. When I'm Z, I usually get steamrolled by 4gate or some weird 3rax push (5:30~7min) because I tend to play with FE instead of early roach pressure, etc.. and then I mismanage my units (lings, queen, huh?!) and get raped.

As T, I almost always end up taking the game to mid-game (so.. 15~20 minutes) and end up losing because of constant harasses and / or my mismanagement of units and economy.

And I don't want to cheese in 1v1 x(

[SpookG]

Originally Posted by OneHandNow

See that's the problem! I can't react & adapt fast enough.. I guess that comes with time and training.

For example, I play T&Z, half half. When I'm Z, I usually get steamrolled by 4gate or some weird 3rax push (5:30~7min) because I tend to play with FE instead of early roach pressure, etc.. and then I mismanage my units (lings, queen, huh?!) and get raped.

As T, I almost always end up taking the game to mid-game (so.. 15~20 minutes) and end up losing because of constant harasses and / or my mismanagement of units and economy.

And I don't want to cheese in 1v1 x(

Watch your replays, even if you win, and see what it is you do wrong, and attempt to correct one mistake per game from then on out.

You won't ever play a flawless game. There's always something, somewhere you could of improved. A reaction to something, learning to scout a build order quicker, picking a better scout path for proxies, cheese counters, tightening up your timing, etc.

Even if it was inconsequential in the game you played, it will all add up and it is important to understand that every little thing will matter, if not in the current game, maybe ten games down the road, so you might as well be overly critical of yourself now.

The different in knowledge from 100 1v1 played to 500 is staggering.

Also, watch the GSL or other pro leagues. That's where you can pick up new ideas and see how pros counter situations where you got rolled. You won't be able to execute it as well, but at least seeing how it is done puts that in your mind, and that is much better than scratching your ass without a clue.

I hit diamond 2v2 before I moved out of bronze in 1v1, and used 2v2 as an opportunity to improve macro mechanics and get two looks per game at cheese rushes and timings to just get used to things in 1v1, but the truth is the only way to get better at it is well, to do it.

[Reach]

Originally Posted by OneHandNow

See that's the problem! I can't react & adapt fast enough.. I guess that comes with time and training.

For example, I play T&Z, half half. When I'm Z, I usually get steamrolled by 4gate or some weird 3rax push (5:30~7min) because I tend to play with FE instead of early roach pressure, etc.. and then I mismanage my units (lings, queen, huh?!) and get raped.

As T, I almost always end up taking the game to mid-game (so.. 15~20 minutes) and end up losing because of constant harasses and / or my mismanagement of units and economy.

And I don't want to cheese in 1v1 x(

Well, yes, it gets better with training.

You could post a replay if you want and I can take a look at it to see if you're doing anything obviously wrong other than simple mismanage, which happens to everyone of every league.



I've been beating masters T players in customs lately, but am having more trouble vs Z. I find them irritating to deal with in middle game, though late game is less of a problem. I find that P is relatively fragile in this matchup before colossi, because roach+speedling is very strong, and with hydra almost unstoppable without splash. However, vs T can be quite forgiving as long as you're good with FFs.

PvP is a very annoying matchup though. It always feels like a coin flip, since expanding is so hard D: I lost PvP to a roflbadmacro gold player that did a chargelot timing when I went FE (scout a non-4gate and figured it was safe) and messed up my FFs when he came at me, then next game beat a master that botched his blinks XD

I actually think expanding might be indefensible in PvP and is build order loss until you're almost mined out, since 4 gate blink-allin is impossible to stop if you put up an expo, even though you can quickly go 6 gate off an expo. You just can't get the gates up fast enough, plus you also lack blink. So...expand and lose, or hope your opp does not blink stalker all in.

With the state of the game right now though, there's just no reason not to because it's ridiculously hard to defend...and the warp gate nerf really only nerfs other types of 4 gates.

[EDEdDNEdDYFaN]

anyone up for some money 1v1 boX series

or no money if you're scared

[OneHandNow]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

-Insert T build for early rax-

I tried it once against a Z.

I was promoted.. o_o

But I haven't tried it since then.

Does it work consistently? :O My friend is telling me good 4gaters can own the shit out of 3rax any day.

[Skeleton-GotW]

@Reach:

I haven't really played since the new patch, but I almost never expanded in PvP, and neither major change effects expanding very much. If I feel confident and I see enemy expand, I kill him ASAP. Most games are me holding 4gate w/ fast immorts / steamrolling w/ 1 or 2 collos... or me not holding 4gate.

But, have things changed? Still mostly 4gating?... or is it finally collos or stargate w/ late expos?...

[Reach]

Originally Posted by Skeleton-GotW

@Reach:

I haven't really played since the new patch, but I almost never expanded in PvP, and neither major change effects expanding very much. If I feel confident and I see enemy expand, I kill him ASAP. Most games are me holding 4gate w/ fast immorts / steamrolling w/ 1 or 2 collos... or me not holding 4gate.

But, have things changed? Still mostly 4gating?... or is it finally collos or stargate w/ late expos?...

Pretty much still all in. 4gate nerf only really affects korean 4 gates and helps zergs. It doesn't hurt 4 gate blink stalker all ins at all, which is pretty much what I've encountered in PvP lately. It's basically a 4 gate that comes a minute later that is way stronger.

At least, against strong players.

[OneHandNow]

Marine & marauders

[Reach]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=228253

Another way to break PvP XD

You can do something similar with a 2gate in your opps main where you block the pylon, but that is hard countered by immediate forge.

This, on the other hand...really really sucks. Hope you don't get scouted first, or spawn on xel naga caverns. 9 scout is already really popular in PvP, since it's easier to catch cheese; it's no big leap to just start going forge first when you scout first and doing this every time. Re-expanding will not work.


It's not exactly new; seen it in bw, I've had it done to me twice on the ladder, both of which were successful, but I never really gave it a second thought. On maps where this is possible, I might actually consider it, since it's a free win (They would also have to scout first, see forge, and send two probes behind their mineral line.)


This may or may not put you ahead in PvT as well. Hard to say; would depend on whether or not they came to you with early marines (if not you can just fast expand and be way way ahead)

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Ok guys it should please you to know That the OP is 50% written.

I've got the map pool figured out for the most part trying to find one more map so that way it's 10 maps in the pool Diversity

The big thing is figuring out either groups or bracket. I will say there's no loser's bracket. Anyone know how groups work that would be willing to help? If so please write an explanation and PM it to me.

Also should we do a small credit buy in (since running tourneys on here HAS to have prizes.) Or is there interest in donating?

[WolfXhunter]

ill donate 300k since i have no use for it.

Edit* Sent