Texas Senate approves guns on campus

[ScarletSky]

Originally Posted by Aldentron

So take your guns and shove them where the sun don't shine.

I just want to clarify for those who don't understand: he means your asshole.

[DarknessXoXLight]

Originally Posted by i love you

This is so ****in stupid ugh

+1

I fear for humanity.

[PlayTrumpet]

This is what a survivor from the Virgina Tech shooting thought about this before it was passed.

[Patricoo]

BLAM! Prepare yourself for a Berlin Wall of a text that no one ain't gonna read. I don't care. Whatever. Makes me happy.

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

I see this fit for Colleges with...
- Higher female>male population
- Little security
- Colleges in high-crime areas

There is obviously going to be guidelines to this. It's not like someone is going to walk around with a rifle in plain sight.

This +1. I don't know why gun laws are always misconstrued as "Yosemite Sam-wannabees now have legal rights." What this means is that people who have gone through the extremely regulated process of concealed gun carry can now actually carry that gun.

Originally Posted by Syhto

We already have guns, now they're just allowed on college campuses. not that many college students even have gun permits, let alone license to carry... not really a big thing but w/e sure let's all be disgusted. there will probably be more problems like accidental discharge in dorms and the like. i don't really think an increase in guns necessarily means everyone is going to be suicidal/homicidal c'mon now

Good thought, but hey, dorms might even be allowed to set their own rules. You might not allowed a gun in the dorm while still allowed the gun on campus. For instance, some campuses might not be a 'dry' campus for alcohol but the dorm still restricts it. People still conceal their plastic bottles of vodka and drink those, too. Oh and btw, many campuses feel that instead of absolutely restricting alcohol and cracking down, they take measures to teach people to drink responsibly to reduce mishaps. They do the same with sex and condoms, too.

Originally Posted by cry4eternity

I don't know about Texas, but in rural Michigan/Wisconsin all the people I know that have guns don't have them for self protection. It's just for the "fun" of it... because they can, etc.

Personally I don't get it at all. It's not necessary at all and from what I've seen they can be somewhat expensive. I don't think I'll ever waste my time and money getting one.

I pulled this quote out to consider it. Its a true point, but I wouldn't call it for the "fun" of it. If anything, carrying and owning a weapon appropriately comes with a sense of responsibility. Being recognized by the government as someone who can carry and own a weapon responsibly is satisfying. And yes, the sense of it all is a little fun to some. Thats not a bad thing, at its core.

Originally Posted by ddr_f4n

I dunno if the prof wants to go against an entire lecture hall :V

Scarface 101? It'd probably be a summer class.

Originally Posted by Aldentron

What law is going to prevent some one who wants to commit homicide from committing homicide? While it's completely unreasonable to bring a gun on campus, it's also completely unreasonable to not allow them. And yes, I feel the same way about government buildings/airports whatever else. Guns are legal, THAT'S the problem.

Of course, I'm not one of the people that will be bringing guns to class. I don't believe in the Republican Fear. I don't believe in violence, and I CERTAINLY don't believe in cowering before any deadly machinery. So take your guns and shove them where the sun don't shine.

I quote this block because its highly logical and I respect it. The issue would be its legality, and that trying to strangle it out isn't doing anything to reduce violence. That said, my own second amendment isn't going anywhere. Hell its three amendments ahead of due f**king process, and six before cruel and unusual punishment. The number order might not actually relate to priority, but I'm sure as hell going to pretend it does. :P

Originally Posted by Hazelle

If this law takes place, I don't see any good outcome of it. This upsets me.

And nothing bad will happen. If something does happen, I'll mail you 20$.

Originally Posted by PlayTrumpet

This is what a survivor from the Virgina Tech shooting thought about this before it was passed.

From the video: "If gun-free zones attract more criminals, how come there is more gun violence off campuses then on campuses." wtf? Because colleges consist of young middle-to-upper class and educated individuals. If this guy took a comparative polling class he'd know that wasn't a valid statistic. Anyone ever see Temple campus in Philly? Its one of the safest places in America where as one street off is one of the most criminal. Why? Because they have to saturate the hell out of it with a private police force to keep the poor people out. If anything, college students are more likely to carry responsibly.

I respect the victim's opinion that we should be doing other things that are also effective in lowering gun violence, but by failing to discredit the actual concealed carry process then you're failing to convince me on why we can't do two things at once.

[Reincarnate]

This is extremely, extremely stupid. WTF is your problem, Texas?

Then again I can't say I'm surprised. When I was in Texas, I encountered some of the stupidest people I've ever met in my life. It's like the entire state generates its own tard-aura.

[PlayTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Patricoo

From the video: "If gun-free zones attract more criminals, how come there is more gun violence off campuses then on campuses." wtf? Because colleges consist of young middle-to-upper class and educated individuals. If this guy took a comparative polling class he'd know that wasn't a valid statistic. Anyone ever see Temple campus in Philly? Its one of the safest places in America where as one street off is one of the most criminal. Why? Because they have to saturate the hell out of it with a private police force to keep the poor people out. If anything, college students are more likely to carry responsibly.

I respect the victim's opinion that we should be doing other things that are also effective in lowering gun violence, but by failing to discredit the actual concealed carry process then you're failing to convince me on why we can't do two things at once.

I won't speak to the statistic the speaker mentions since in that context it isn't valid. But I will speak to the point that the victim makes about police having to deal with multiple gun carrying people. Imagine a situation where two or more people are holding up guns and the police get to the scene without any full proof way of knowing who the original shooter is. The whole thing could be much more of a bloody mess. But again, that isn't the core point.

What Texas is doing is using a little bandage to try to stop the flow of a deep wound. They should be considering better organization and distribution of mental health records and gun registration restrictions, along with better warning systems for schools. And this is the problem with SO many people's logic with 'fixing' these kinds of problems. They deal with what they see as the problem directly instead of looking for an actual, structural solution for the problem as a whole. Allowing guns on campus may seem like a fix-it solution, but not only does it not reach deep enough - it is also incredibly flawed.

[Patricoo]

Originally Posted by PlayTrumpet

I won't speak to the statistic the speaker mentions since in that context it isn't valid. But I will speak to the point that the victim makes about police having to deal with multiple gun carrying people. Imagine a situation where two or more people are holding up guns and the police get to the scene without any full proof way of knowing who the original shooter is. The whole thing could be much more of a bloody mess. But again, that isn't the core point.... What Texas is doing is using a little bandage to try to stop the flow of a deep wound.

My point wasn't to use the one statement to discredit everything. It was just to show how there is a failure to discredit the concealed carry system. For instance, that hypothetical is flawed. The police could either A-Shoot who shoots first, or B-Do what usually happens in a bar fight, which is arrest everyone and figure it all out down in the station. (For instance, who has the C.C. license, and who is on meds holding a weapon that belongs to someone else.) Besides, its better for the cops to show up to two guys at a stalemate with a chance of resolution then to show up to a corpse and one guy who has a gun. At the end of the day, no one is going to mention how easy it was to figure out who did it.

You're right though. Thats not the core focus. The core focus is that nothing is going to work perfectly, but you have the ability to add in many layers of protection. This one is the last in line.

They should be considering better organization and distribution of mental health records and gun registration restrictions, along with better warning systems for schools. And this is the problem with SO many people's logic with 'fixing' these kinds of problems. They deal with what they see as the problem directly instead of looking for an actual, structural solution for the problem as a whole. Allowing guns on campus may seem like a fix-it solution, but not only does it not reach deep enough - it is also incredibly flawed.

Aside from it being flawed, I pretty much agree but I still reinforce that we can do BOTH things rather then scapegoat concealed carry. The problems with coming up structural solutions is that they can involve invasive programs at greater expense. This is one that can be done quickly, easily, cheaply, and doesn't seem to have substantial evidence that makes the problem worse. It doesn't solve it, no, but it doesn't hurt.

Anyways, we're talking about the qualifications of getting a concealed carry and I'm not even sure of them. Figured I'd post up Texas qualifications to get a concealed carry that I googled.

A number of factors may make you ineligible to obtain a license, such as: felony convictions and some misdemeanor, including charges that resulted in probation or deferred adjudication, pending criminal charges, chemical or alcohol dependency, certain types of psychological diagnoses, protective or restraining orders, or defaults on taxes, governmental fees, or child support... two recent color passport photos, two sets of fingerprints taken by a law enforcement agency employee... a copy of your Texas driver license, and a notification of completion form (TR 100) from a DPSauthorized training course. After receiving completed application packets, DPS will conduct background checks of juvenile records for the previous 10 years and of all adult records.

[Artic_counter]

The fun thing is that the day when a shooting actually happens, there will be a damn load of retards crying their souls out wondering how could this tragedy have happened. God I hate that.

Words can't describe how stupid that law is. It's literary asking for trouble.

But hey, natural selection.

[DotKritic]

Even before the law went through, it wasn't not stopping students from already bringing their guns to colleges/universities.

[PlayTrumpet]

Honestly, this comes down to opinion. I've met Liberals who are fine with everyone having guns and Conservatives who are for tougher gun control. I'd argue that it (AT TIMES) is a very split, perhaps even non-partisan...ish issue.

In my opinion, this law was (pardon this) jumping the gun. Did anyone think to encourage the use of concealed tasers or any fast non-lethal yet maiming or disarming or paralysis-inducing weapons before they said let there be guns?

I'm from a state with, believe it or not an Unrestricted jurisdiction for carrying concealed weapons (no permit required), versus Texas which even has a "Shall-Issue" jurisdiction (requires permit, but with the least involved issuing process of permit-required jurisdictions). Yet even here, you won't find people hiding guns on them at college or school. Being a very non-murderous state, I'd go so far as to say the main reason we have such lax gun laws is because people here like to hunt, and can be trusted to carry guns because 1) There are very few of us existing in Vermont; 2) It's easier to keep records of guns, less easy to buy guns illegally at gun shows (see: Texas); 3) There are fewer people to keep track of/screen and match up with mental health records (something required which many states still refuse to fulfill anywhere near adequately enough, leaving potentially dangerous gaps) and again 4) There are a lot of hunters.

Again, still my opinion, but allowing more guns means more guns. That's a direction I'm sad to see any part of America take.

[DotKritic]

Then you would have someone walking around the campus with the ability to up the voltage on the taser gun.

[Patricoo]

I'll just sum it up my whole argument together and not reply anymore because no one is going to convert the other. :P

The idea that more guns means less violence goes against all strains of logic, but studies support this idea once you factor who owns them and how they attained them. Everyone hates this cliche, but guns don't kill people, people kill people. I'm very supportive of strict regulations on issuing carry permits but I'm not going to pointlessly demonize those people.

[Reincarnate]

It's always stupid logic.

Yes, people kill people. The kinds of severely screwed up people who would kill others with a gun will probably be messed up and violent even without such weapons.

But guns can easily turn a bad situation into something worse in such a way that it couldn't have before.

I have a hard time seeing this as sound logic -- it's not like mutually assured destruction with nuclear weapons. Completely stupid.

[SocoNhydro420]

I will admit it would be pretty sick to carry around a .45 at school, bad idea though.

[tofurox]

Ummm Im scared now.

[Mans0n]

Looks like someone is definitely not going to college now.

[zoogarama]

+1 If you thought this was a prank at first

[Duplica]

This isn't going to solve anything. We can't bring guns to our classrooms, let alone possess a gun in public. It's never even occurred to us that it would be necessary to legalize that. Goes with the mentality of the region I guess.

[Calcium Deposit]

why do people instantly assume this only applies to the students?
campus employees were obviously wanting some extra protection, think about all the columbine-esque stories abound. All that shit happened before guns were allowed on campus. But guess what? Now if some crazy whackjob gets it in his head that he needs to start shooting up his classmates his teacher now has the right to blow his ****ing head off. There's a reason for everything if your mind isn't linear and propaganda-****ed.

[Izzy]

We should just put unmanned turrets in the hallways of schools.