Old 10-27-2009, 12:47 PM   #2141
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

Read the stipulation. 3.2.

I'm not even saying they have an unfair advantage. It has nothing to do with class changes or anything. They made it so both sides now have to have a full queue before it starts. This means 30-minute queues.

Our battlegroup was basically "which team won't have the max capacity when the fight starts". It was perfectly balanced! Sometimes you'd be fighting 15v40 in AV and you'd lose and sometimes it'd be 40v15 and you win. So, you win some, you lose some. Not to mention that queue times we so fast that I couldn't even do a single quest between queues while leveling my druid. Nowadays, seeing a double-digit number is common.

As I had left off halfway completing Battlemaster for not wanting to grind reputation, which is being fixed in 3.3, I figured I'd go back in and try to get some wins. I queued. Many minutes later, I got in. We lost. Queued again. We lost. Tried later, we lost. Tried again, we lost. Tried another day, we lost. Tried the weekends, we lost. Tried after the weekends, we lost.

Bad sampling, I guess? Possibly. Or it might have been that I was asking these people who have been PVPing since the patch came out and they tell me we aren't winning anymore.

Wintergrasp is, again, a different story. Having a maximum of 120 doesn't affect our server at all. They don't force the teams to have equal numbers.

I don't know of a site where I can check the logs of battleground win/loss ratios. If you do, then show me. Wintergrasp does not count though.
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Old 10-27-2009, 02:12 PM   #2142
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

I think the issue isn't any sort of actual imbalance in PvP Battlegrounds. I think the problem is "Way more people are PvPing, and that includes people who suck ass" So the general percentage of players in BGs who are actually -good- is slowly dropping. Then all it takes is a partial 5 or 10 person premade in an AV, or even just 3 or 4 guys in a vent for WSG/AB/etc etc and they have a MUCh larger advantage than they used to, since by and large, max-level PvP was made up in larger proportion of actual PVPers.
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Old 10-27-2009, 02:36 PM   #2143
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

No. Way *fewer* people are PVPing. Hence the insane queue times.
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:26 PM   #2144
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

That's terrible sampling. You took 3 games that you played after each other and made a conclusion on an entire patch based on that. The best you can say is "the Horde loses on Thursday nights 3AM-4AM". To make an accurate statistic on loses, you'd need to play a lot of games across many battlegrounds and randomly choose a set of games to even make a conclusion. Even then, there are still problems with that sampling.

Asking other people who have been PVPing since 3.2 came out is not also a reliable method. For all we know, they could just be saying, "WE LOSE ALL GAMES" because that's the way they feel.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiluluk
WHEN do you think people die...?
When their heart is pierced by a bullet from a pistol...? No.
When they succumb to an incurable disease...? No.
When they drink soup made with a poisonous mushroom...? NO!!!
IT'S WHEN A PERSON IS FORGOTTEN...!!!
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Old 10-28-2009, 12:50 AM   #2145
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

I've said this a few times in this thread, but I'll say it again: when I played my alliance druid at, we lost every time in BGs. When I got my horde shaman up to 70, we won every time. Just depends on the battlegroup =)
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Old 10-28-2009, 04:48 AM   #2146
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

Sqek belongs the the Stormstrike battlegroup.

Battleground data for level 80 in that battlegroup:

Code:
                        Horde Alliance
Alterac Valley          63      61
Arathi Basin            49      56
Warsong Gulch           49      48
Eye of the Storm        36      38
Strand of the Ancients  64      116
For all levels:
Code:
                        Horde Alliance 
Alterac Valley          2,233 1,373 
Arathi Basin            1,427 1,212 
Warsong Gulch           1,431 1,538 
Eye of the Storm          392 376 
Strand of the Ancients     64 116

Last edited by devonin; 10-28-2009 at 04:50 AM..
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Old 10-28-2009, 05:14 AM   #2147
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

Is that like, in one day or something? That's hardly relevant data if that's all-time level 80 data.

Hell I've won more battles than that even says we've won in all. It's a pretty poor sampling of data to say the least. I only PVPed after I hit 80, and it was a while after I hit 80. I have my 100 AV wins achievement done.

It wasn't even about the fact that we didn't win any of the fights I went to. It's that we lost hard. There wasn't any collaboration (though it didn't stop me from trying), positive or negative. The queues are a nightmare now, even if you queue into the holiday fights. I don't even know how anyone could attempt any of the achievements anymore.

My point isn't that our battlegroup is skewed. My point is that battlegrounds are effectively ruined by the force-cap queue system.
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Old 10-28-2009, 12:57 PM   #2148
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

But you can draw a statistic from the data. Just because it has less games than you have done doesn't mean it is bad data.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiluluk
WHEN do you think people die...?
When their heart is pierced by a bullet from a pistol...? No.
When they succumb to an incurable disease...? No.
When they drink soup made with a poisonous mushroom...? NO!!!
IT'S WHEN A PERSON IS FORGOTTEN...!!!
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:11 PM   #2149
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

It's not so much that it's not a lot of data. It's that it's not all the data. This falls into the same problem. Time of day issues, day of the week, etc. It's not a good sampling.
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:25 PM   #2150
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

You don't need a lot of data to make a good statistic, that's what a statistic is. If you wanted something complete, go find a census.

Battleground data like this will always fall prey to the same problems of time of day and day of the week. However, if these games were picked randomly from a bunch of games played for a long period of time, at least it will be better than the 3 games you picked at your convenience.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiluluk
WHEN do you think people die...?
When their heart is pierced by a bullet from a pistol...? No.
When they succumb to an incurable disease...? No.
When they drink soup made with a poisonous mushroom...? NO!!!
IT'S WHEN A PERSON IS FORGOTTEN...!!!
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Old 10-28-2009, 02:20 PM   #2151
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

You mean the three games I picked at the time of day & day of week where Horde used to win 100% of the time.
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Old 10-28-2009, 02:21 PM   #2152
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

four days left of hallow's end and still no goddamn sinister squashling

why do you hate me rng
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Old 10-28-2009, 02:23 PM   #2153
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

So a couple (only needed to be 3 or 4 really) of really skilled really hardcore pvpers got new jobs that meant they couldn't play at those times anymore, that would easily account for winning a lot and then no longer winning, and is, given the statistics I've been seeing from various battlegroups, more likely than "the last patch ruined PvP for horde"
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Old 10-28-2009, 02:24 PM   #2154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokzic View Post
four days left of hallow's end and still no goddamn sinister squashling

why do you hate me rng
I had to wait a full year for the holiday to roll back around to get my hallowed helm which was the only thing from the entire holiday I didn't get the first time around.
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Old 10-28-2009, 03:09 PM   #2155
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

Then you can make a statement that 3.2 ruined PVP for those hours. Generalizing about the patch would make your sample a bad one.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiluluk
WHEN do you think people die...?
When their heart is pierced by a bullet from a pistol...? No.
When they succumb to an incurable disease...? No.
When they drink soup made with a poisonous mushroom...? NO!!!
IT'S WHEN A PERSON IS FORGOTTEN...!!!
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Old 10-28-2009, 03:19 PM   #2156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devonin View Post
So a couple (only needed to be 3 or 4 really) of really skilled really hardcore pvpers got new jobs that meant they couldn't play at those times anymore, that would easily account for winning a lot and then no longer winning, and is, given the statistics I've been seeing from various battlegroups, more likely than "the last patch ruined PvP for horde"
You are not reading my posts.

I am not saying the patch ruined pvp for horde. I am saying the last patch ruined battlegrounds in general.
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Old 10-28-2009, 03:22 PM   #2157
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

Your point was that horde used to win all the time, and now they lose all the time. And from that you draw a general conclusion that battlegrounds are ruined?
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Old 10-28-2009, 05:08 PM   #2158
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

No.

I argued that the queue times were insane, that nobody plays anymore, and that we tend to lose at times when we used to win.

Point 2 could be explained by either point 1 or point 3, or both. Points 1 and 2 could be explained by point 3.

I really don't care whether I'm wrong about us losing or not. I'm not wrong about queue times going from 2 minutes to 20 minutes or more. As someone who primarily just needs 100 wins in each fight for the remainder of my achievements, it'll take me about ten times longer to do now, which is why I say battlegrounds are effectively ruined.

Either way, I'm tired of arguing about this. This is not a petty whine about the Horde losing, which you still seem to think it is. This is a complaint about the changes made to battlegrounds in general.

Last edited by Squeek; 10-28-2009 at 05:12 PM..
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Old 10-28-2009, 05:29 PM   #2159
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

I've never had more than a 5 minute wait on a BG. Might just be your server.
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:09 AM   #2160
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Default Re: World of Warcraft

Sqek can tell you the story:


Our rogue messed up the recount rainbow.


Our boomkin messed this one up.


Never once did we get the rainbow right.


~Tsugomaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiluluk
WHEN do you think people die...?
When their heart is pierced by a bullet from a pistol...? No.
When they succumb to an incurable disease...? No.
When they drink soup made with a poisonous mushroom...? NO!!!
IT'S WHEN A PERSON IS FORGOTTEN...!!!
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