GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence.

[Rubin0]

I really think intelligence is difficult to measure. There are so many different levels of intelligence. One person may not be able to read, but could put together a car engine without ever being formally trained. Personally, I can't get anywhere without my navigation system in my car because I have absolutely no sense of direction. Meanwhile, my friend works with a man (whom we suspect is borderline retarded) that can get anywhere in New York without the assistance of a map just because he has an excellence sense of where he is all the time.

Our society values certain things. A genius mechanic working in a garage (I'm just assuming here) is generally valued less than a surgeon.

[t0ni]

Originally Posted by devonin

Um...you have a GPA in college as well. The purpose of the discussion isn't about whether your GPA is important or not, it is about whether a high GPA is indicative of a high degree of intelligence, or I suppose conversely, whether a high degree of intelligence is necessary to have a high GPA.

The people who are posting in this thread give a crap, so either treat the subject with a little respect, or don't post.

nope, GPA doesn't show how intelligent someone is, someone can be a genius and do poor in classes because he's lazy, besides GPA still does not matter in college, it does if you want to be first in your class, nonetheless who is to compare a 3.5-4.0 GPA history/liberal arts major to a 2.75 GPA Electrical engineer major, EE>Art

[devonin]

nonetheless who is to compare a 3.5-4.0 GPA history/liberal arts major to a 2.75 GPA Electrical engineer major, EE>Art

I find that claim to be highly absurd and nonsensical. Who are -you- to make -any- general statement that a given engineer is -greater than- a given liberal arts or history major, regardless of their GPAs?

[t0ni]

Originally Posted by devonin

I find that claim to be highly absurd and nonsensical. Who are -you- to make -any- general statement that a given engineer is -greater than- a given liberal arts or history major, regardless of their GPAs?

are you serious, maybe you should think about this some more, go ahead, take all..... the time you need.

[rade0110]

Originally Posted by slipstrike0159

Yes but what is intelligence if it is not a learned skill anyway? An intelligent person in the ways of math became intelligent by learning the skill, and by learning you have to have actually heard it, studied it, interpreted it, and retained the knowledge. Such a process and processes similar to that are how people become 'intelligent' in a subject anyway.

Yes, lord knows Newton heard/studied/interpreted/retained all of his formula's theorems and methods in calculus before he made them.

On topic: Since I just spent the last half hour reading this, I think it is safe to say that the very large majority (if not all) of us believe GPA does reflect ones intelligence. Some people were more well spoken then others with their views; but the ending conclusion is still the same.

To add to this arguement, I have had to take three IQ tests over my lifetime do to the fact that I have ADHD and had seen a psychologists off and on up until I was a sophomore in highschool for help on how to control it without the aid of medication. My IQ tests did in fact very, but only by a small scale. One that would fit into Reach's arguement. When I was 10 my IQ was 127. When I was 14 my IQ was 132. And Finally when I was 16 my IQ was 130.

My GPA when I finished Highschool was a 3.67. My SAT was 1428 out of 1600 and my ACT was a 30 out of 36 or 32, I can't remember. I graduated from the University of Minnesota with a 3.42. None of those numbers do I hold as a marker of how intelligent I am. Yes, they are all above the norm, but like many of you said, they basically show my work ethic and my ability to actually retain the knowledge I have taken in. I really don't count ACT due to the fact that the test does not deduct points for wrong answers. You are allowed to guess without consequence.

I remember in highschool I would figure out how many points I could lose before I recieved (what is in my eyes) a poor grade. Then, I would do just the minimum effort needed to get it. There would be times I actually wanted to work on something to be proud of it, but those were few and far between in highschool. I did work exceedingly hard in college my freshman and sophomore year, but only because generals cover such a broad spectrum of classes that it took a great deal of effort for me to actually DO the work. Not because the material was difficult. When you start getting into classes that are your field (and I think that chaz and any 3rd/4th year can attest to this) the material becomes much easier to grasp because you enjoy what you are studying.

Personally, I feel that IQ tests are a much stronger indicator of someones actual intelligence than a GPA is. But I am not knowledged enough on exactly how they work to declare them the only indicator of how intelligent someone is.

*Edit Btw, a 19 year old, who has yet to fully understand the difficulties of college period, has little arguement in saying any field's Bachelor's Degree is greater than any others. I would like to see your support t0ni in this completely ignorant comment.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by t0ni

are you serious, maybe you should think about this some more, go ahead, take all..... the time you need.

If you'd made your statement in something approaching clear and proper language, I doubt there'd be any difficulty in determining what you were saying. Please do enlighten us as to exactly what causes you to make this claim.

[Cosmic M]

I want to agree/add to the post that i agree with that says intelligence is the ability to learn the information. It also has to do with how much effort you need to put forth compared to how much effort others have to in order to arrive at the same result.

Take for instance the sophomore research paper we are currently doing for school. Though it is a very important paper and you must get at least a C+ just to pass sophomore year, I did what i always do for all my assignments. Complete it, but do the bare minimum to get by. The teacher is a big fan of 1 on 1 conferences when she is giving the grades back, so you can imagine that i was a bit scared i had done terrible when i was walking up to her desk, hell i hadn't even edited the damn thing.

Lo and behold, she told me it was amazing and i got an A. Certainly a surprise.

Now my point is not to pat myself on the back, my point is that anybody (you know what i mean when i say that) can get an A on that paper, some however need to put forth different levels of effort in order to arrive at that result. The less intelligent would just need to work harder at it.

And then we would have the same GPA, but there are two very different levels of intelligence.

[t0ni]

Originally Posted by devonin

If you'd made your statement in something approaching clear and proper language, I doubt there'd be any difficulty in determining what you were saying. Please do enlighten us as to exactly what causes you to make this claim.

I stated it on my first post, and I'm sure that you can extract something out of it, if you can't, then too bad

[devonin]

Well it sounds to me like you're saying that GPA doesn't show how intelligent you are, and that you can have a low GPA because you're lazy not stupid, and that "nonetheless" an engineer with a 2.75GPA is -greater than- a history or liberal arts major with a 4.0.

Your use of greater than sounds very much like a claim that engineers are either better or more intelligent or both than historians.

Also, in this forum, when someone asks you for clarification you give them clarification. You do -not- tell them "Too bad"

[t0ni]

Originally Posted by devonin

Well it sounds to me like you're saying that GPA doesn't show how intelligent you are, and that you can have a low GPA because you're lazy not stupid, and that "nonetheless" an engineer with a 2.75GPA is -greater than- a history or liberal arts major with a 4.0.

Your use of greater than sounds very much like a claim that engineers are either better or more intelligent or both than historians.

Also, in this forum, when someone asks you for clarification you give them clarification. You do -not- tell them "Too bad"

finally you got it, therefore GPA does not accurately show how intelligent you are

[devonin]

finally you got it, therefore GPA does not accurately show how intelligent you are

So..."finally" I understand the point exactly as I stated it in the very first comment I made. I suppose I could just restate the original response I made, but you'd probably cop the same attitude with it now as you did then. I think perhaps CT isn't the place for you to be posting.

You've demonstrated nothing but disdain for other posters, you've been dismissive of points directed at you, choosing smarmy crap over reasonable posting when asked for clarification, and have now twice made an incredibly biased and sweeping generalisation with absolutely nothing approaching evidence to support you.

[t0ni]

Originally Posted by devonin

So..."finally" I understand the point exactly as I stated it in the very first comment I made. I suppose I could just restate the original response I made, but you'd probably cop the same attitude with it now as you did then. I think perhaps CT isn't the place for you to be posting.

You've demonstrated nothing but disdain for other posters, you've been dismissive of points directed at you, choosing smarmy crap over reasonable posting when asked for clarification, and have now twice made an incredibly biased and sweeping generalisation with absolutely nothing approaching evidence to support you.

once again, GPA does not accurately show how intelligent you are, as you can see in my original post, its pretty simple to understand

[lord_carbo]

Originally Posted by t0ni

once again, GPA does not accurately show how intelligent you are, as you can see in my original post, its pretty simple to understand

You completely ignored his post. That's the whole damn point he is making. However, you are saying that somehow careers are a measure, which is what he is denying.

You're being completely myopic by acting smarmy when your dearth of both reason and consistent logic recommends that you be otherwise. Approach things with an open mind. At least act as if you may be wrong, and be somewhat respectful.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by t0ni

once again, GPA does not accurately show how intelligent you are, as you can see in my original post, its pretty simple to understand

I didn't say the first thing about your claim that GPA doesn't show intelligence. My entire objection, as was obvious from the fact that I directly quoted the line of yours I was responding to, was to this statement:

nonetheless who is to compare a 3.5-4.0 GPA history/liberal arts major to a 2.75 GPA Electrical engineer major, EE>Art

And the implication, which you basically admitted that you made, that Engineers were somehow intrinsically more intelligent or better than historians or other liberal arts majors. Which is unfounded, and quite ignorant in my opinion.

[t0ni]

Originally Posted by devonin

I didn't say the first thing about your claim that GPA doesn't show intelligence. My entire objection, as was obvious from the fact that I directly quoted the line of yours I was responding to, was to this statement:



And the implication, which you basically admitted that you made, that Engineers were somehow intrinsically more intelligent or better than historians or other liberal arts majors. Which is unfounded, and quite ignorant in my opinion.

wow, how stupid can you be, seriously, the topic is if GPA accurately shows if someone is intelligent, the answer is absolutely NO! If you take a 3.5 liberal art major, whos major is not even hard, and compare it to ANY damn engineer major with a 2.8 for instance, who says that the 3.5 gpa person is smarter, NO, because obviously engineering is a way more difficult major, yea yea there is exceptions, but please this topic is so easy to understand, that this thread should be locked

[lord_carbo]

Originally Posted by t0ni

wow, how stupid can you be, seriously, the topic is if GPA accurately shows if someone is intelligent, the answer is absolutely NO! If you take a 3.5 liberal art major, whos major is not even hard, and compare it to ANY damn engineer major with a 2.8 for instance, who says that the 3.5 gpa person is smarter, NO, because obviously engineering is a way more difficult major, yea yea there is exceptions, but please this topic is so easy to understand, that this thread should be locked

If GPA is not reflective of intelligence, then what's to say that the liberal arts major isn't a freaking genius whose "real GPA" is an astounding 4.5 while the engineer's "real GPA" is 1.0? There is no empirical basis for judging intelligence by career as is GPA similarly.

[rade0110]

Originally Posted by t0ni

wow, how stupid can you be, seriously, the topic is if GPA accurately shows if someone is intelligent, the answer is absolutely NO! If you take a 3.5 liberal art major, whos major is not even hard, and compare it to ANY damn engineer major with a 2.8 for instance, who says that the 3.5 gpa person is smarter, NO, because obviously engineering is a way more difficult major, yea yea there is exceptions, but please this topic is so easy to understand, that this thread should be locked

That is what we have been saying is a totally biased opinion and you have absolutely no grounds in saying that. Now, if you were to give adequate proof on this, I'm sure many of us would really love to see it. Otherwise your claim is completely null.

[devonin]

yea yea there is exceptions

The exceptions are what turn a mildly prejudicial and ignorant statement into a flamingly prejudicial and ignorant statement with no basis for proof, and one that is highly offensive to anybody who is in the liberal arts.

You managed to stop the nonsense and actually respond in a reasonable manner just shy of getting yourself ejected from CT. In the future, keep the value judgements out of your statements unless you've got some evidence to back them up.

If your point is that GPA is not indicative of intelligence, you need only say so, and leave it at that. Slapping on an "example" about how someone is -better- than someone else because you personally find their field of study more difficult is fallacious.

A claim like "Someone with a 4.0 isn't necessarily smarter than someone with a 2.8" is perfectly fine and something that has already been stated repeatedly.

A claim like "Some random liberal arts major with a 4.0 is -obviously- not smarter than an engineer with a 2.8, because come on, everyone knows engineers are more intelligent" is something that has no business whatsoever in this forum.

[t0ni]

"GPA's accuracy reflecting intelligence"
wow, you missed the point here, GPA does not reflect intelligence, you totally missed the point, if you take for example a person majoring in liberal arts, I dont care what you say its one of the easiest majors, and they happened to get a 3.5, now lets take the same person cause you guys are all getting butthurt here, and they major on biology, and they get a 2.5, does that mean he or she is not that intelligent because its a difficult major, or should they go and switch to arts and get that 3.5 and be intelligent, that is if GPA relflects intelligence but it doesn't, because this person may be smart, but in fact he is just majoring in a harder subject, wow seriously, think people.

[ieatyourlvllol]

...

Originally Posted by t0ni

obviously engineering is a way more difficult major

Based on your rather unsupported assumptions, I'd say you've obviously taken every engineering -and- liberal arts course at every college out there. Could it possibly be that in general, engineering is simply judged on a stricter scale than liberal arts, resulting in an appearance of elevated difficulty? Bear in mind that the former is more objective in content and thus grading systematics, whereas the latter leans toward the subjective. That being said, is it possible to directly compare grades between the two? Your mindset clearly indicates the affirmative, but reason calls forth a resounding "NO!"

Originally Posted by t0ni

but please this topic is so easy to understand, that this thread should be locked

This thread was intended for discussion regarding the correlation between the quantity of GPA and the quality of intelligence. What you were leading into deals with the supposed relative difference in separate courses, which is a relationship entirely removed from that which the thread topic concerns.

Anyways, if you're going to contribute to a CT post, at least arm yourself with some logic. Without it, any argumentative material is merely opinion, which is hardly adequate tinder for fueling a debate.