Scoring Data in Brutal Difficulty Range - Page 3

**SK8R43** · 08-28-2019, 05:12 PM

I dont think a perfect rating system can exist, ever.

Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses which affect the difficulty of a song viewed by them. Some people think songs are easy while others think the same song is hard. I have pretty much a better score on every 86 than i do on the 85's for instance. I feel like they could be switched and still be fine.

I'm not really sure that its possible to win in this situation. I see that OWA mentioned Punkture and that it could be a 98 but since jacks are my strength i feel like thats way to high of a level. Ive gotten to the end with a low SDG fc multiple times. Ive also SDG the ending in multiple runs. my score on it isnt the best, but ive gotten better PA 1 or 2 miss runs. Compared to other 95-98s my score on this song is quite good.

If you guys could figure out something that works better that would be sweet, but i think its near impossible to get it perfect.,

**xXOpkillerXx** · 08-28-2019, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One Winged Angel

I agree with Dynamo, honestly there are far too many variables to deal with to ensure a calculator will work effectively. Manually establishing separate decay formulas for charts that are more accessible to less skilled players will reach higher levels of accuracy and communal consensus without the hassle of dealing with all the intricacies needed to be taken into account for a calculator in a game that encodes charts at 30fps. A 16th roll at 300bpm starting on a quarter note can effectively be jumptrilled because the one frame gaps all coincide between arrows hit with the same hand (1/2 and 3/4), but offset the roll by a 16th and now all the one frame gaps appear at 2/3 and 4/1. Having to account for quite literally the same pattern being variable in difficulty depending on the starting note, on top of everything else that needs to be taken into consideration...I personally wouldn't want to invest any time in that.

Could you elaborate on this ? I'm really not sure what you mean there.

Also, the calc I have works on .swf, not on .sm, so the whole conversion point is irrelevant; the difficulty is computed with the resulting converted chart.

**One Winged Angel** · 08-28-2019, 06:12 PM

Charts like Husigi where over 90% of the notes are understandable at a much lower skill level than the difficulty rating would suggest, but mastery of that last < 10% requires being able to play the difficulty range they sit in.

**AutotelicBrown** · 08-28-2019, 07:26 PM

The decay should change according to how hard is getting a reasonable non-AAA score in the spiky section(s), and how hard the rest of the file is to AAA.

Anyway, an approach like Dynam0's formula is probably the most pragmatic solution. My suggestion would be trying to operate over the raw numbers of goods and then using the formula that already exists.

For instance, if the current formula is f(x, A) where x is the raw number of goods and A the current AAA-based difficulty, change it to some f(g(x,B),A).
g(x,B) being some formula where g(x,0) = x (I) and g(x,B) > x for B > 0 (II).
A simple example would be g(x,B) = ((5*x)^(1+c*B))/5, with c being some arbitrary constant to make the range of B suitable to show in the game interface (preferably an integer), and the 5 factor being there just to avoid oddities with 0.2~0.8 values.

(I) - So that by default any song would have B=0 and keep the usual formula
(II) - So silly stuff would be assigned some appropriate B value as needed to force a faster decay

I think this would be fairly intuitive to work with but I'm too lazy to test it out

On a side note, making a general difficulty calculator is trying to solve an even harder problem and trying to make inferences based on the inevitably noisy results.
While I don't think making one is a lost cause, it's way out of scope for what FFR warrants.

**One Winged Angel** · 09-30-2019, 09:13 PM

Discuss?

Obviously not in charge of difficulties or have final say for this but a lot of thought went into this list and will back up any placement decisions if necessary. I don't think anything on this list is off more than 1 point.

**YoshL** · 10-1-2019, 08:12 AM

punkture i think can actually be bumped down, esp. given its length as well.

feels like the most consistent in difficulty though, if you can nail some parts (and have the jack control at that speed) you can generally smash the whole thing. but idk it feels like the rest of the charts in that range have a lot of ups and downs to ruin runs (idk about starbound, dont remember it) but punkture is a straight shot to the end

i feel like id maybe want to bump almost there up to 100 alongside of 8bit tour as well

**xXOpkillerXx** · 10-1-2019, 08:32 AM

My thoughts after discussion are this:

Cold -> 100
Odd -> 103
La Camp -> 98

**Dynam0** · 10-1-2019, 08:38 AM

Punkture has the same skill bias quirk that Club does (or even way back in the day AIM Anthem). If you're a strong wrist jacker it's pretty much AAA on command, otherwise it's ridiculously hard because you physically can't maintain the pace required.

08-28-2019, 05:12 PM	#41
SK8R43 D7 Elite Keymasher Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: In My Room, 10101 Age: 33 Posts: 4,676	Re: Scoring Data in Brutal Difficulty Range I dont think a perfect rating system can exist, ever. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses which affect the difficulty of a song viewed by them. Some people think songs are easy while others think the same song is hard. I have pretty much a better score on every 86 than i do on the 85's for instance. I feel like they could be switched and still be fine. I'm not really sure that its possible to win in this situation. I see that OWA mentioned Punkture and that it could be a 98 but since jacks are my strength i feel like thats way to high of a level. Ive gotten to the end with a low SDG fc multiple times. Ive also SDG the ending in multiple runs. my score on it isnt the best, but ive gotten better PA 1 or 2 miss runs. Compared to other 95-98s my score on this song is quite good. If you guys could figure out something that works better that would be sweet, but i think its near impossible to get it perfect., __________________ Thee Burstinator [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

08-28-2019, 07:26 PM	#44
AutotelicBrown Under the scarlet moon Join Date: Jan 2014 Age: 31 Posts: 921	Re: Scoring Data in Brutal Difficulty Range The decay should change according to how hard is getting a reasonable non-AAA score in the spiky section(s), and how hard the rest of the file is to AAA. Anyway, an approach like Dynam0's formula is probably the most pragmatic solution. My suggestion would be trying to operate over the raw numbers of goods and then using the formula that already exists. For instance, if the current formula is f(x, A) where x is the raw number of goods and A the current AAA-based difficulty, change it to some f(g(x,B),A). g(x,B) being some formula where g(x,0) = x (I) and g(x,B) > x for B > 0 (II). A simple example would be g(x,B) = ((5x)^(1+cB))/5, with c being some arbitrary constant to make the range of B suitable to show in the game interface (preferably an integer), and the 5 factor being there just to avoid oddities with 0.2~0.8 values. (I) - So that by default any song would have B=0 and keep the usual formula (II) - So silly stuff would be assigned some appropriate B value as needed to force a faster decay I think this would be fairly intuitive to work with but I'm too lazy to test it out On a side note, making a general difficulty calculator is trying to solve an even harder problem and trying to make inferences based on the inevitably noisy results. While I don't think making one is a lost cause, it's way out of scope for what FFR warrants. Last edited by AutotelicBrown; 08-28-2019 at 07:29 PM..

10-1-2019, 08:32 AM	#47
xXOpkillerXx ✘ Forever OP✘ Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Canada,Quebec Age: 28 Posts: 4,171	Re: Scoring Data in Brutal Difficulty Range My thoughts after discussion are this: Cold -> 100 Odd -> 103 La Camp -> 98 Last edited by xXOpkillerXx; 10-1-2019 at 11:36 AM.. Reason: Oops typo for la camp

10-1-2019, 08:38 AM	#48
Dynam0 The Dominator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: North Bay, ON Age: 34 Posts: 8,987	Re: Scoring Data in Brutal Difficulty Range Punkture has the same skill bias quirk that Club does (or even way back in the day AIM Anthem). If you're a strong wrist jacker it's pretty much AAA on command, otherwise it's ridiculously hard because you physically can't maintain the pace required.

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