CCQ

[Mourningfall]

What does it mean to chit chat?
to chat or to chit?
can one be performed without the other?
and if so, to what degree do their interchanges vary?

At what point does a conversation become more chit than chat?
or more chat than chit?
which is more socially accepted?
Why do we do either?

When does it stop being chitchat and start being spam?
when does it stop being spam and start being chit chat?

And by asking these questions, am I chatting, chitting or spamming?

Is it Chit chat because I'm providing an entry to return discussion?
Or is it spam because I'm trying to converse without thought or consideration?

am I able to spam so long as it's an earnest attempt at chitting or chatting?

and does this thread qualify as spam?

this game gets pretty stale when we're only allowed to talk about arrows to music,

please allow us to chit or to chat without suppression of our free speech

thank you

[Spenner]

What you're doing is you're making us proud. I'm proud. You've got the concept down and the right ideas flowing so hopefully an expert comes by and gives these the right answers.

[andy-o24]

This is the critical thinking thread we need. What the heck is chitting anyway?

-o24

[Dinglesberry]

Originally Posted by andy-o24

This is the critical thinking thread we need. What the heck is chitting anyway?

-o24

I'm predicting, it comes from chitter - its a word for the sound that small animals, think like squirrels, rodents, etc make - the small squeekin sound or w/e lol

To me this implies chit chat --> Chat that isn't necessarily as significant, and is just random stuff.

[walao1992]

this thread is horribly offensive in more ways than I can count

[TheRapingDragon]

This chat place always confused me. I mean are they talking about 'chit' as in the small sum of money, are we all money launderers here?

Or are you using it in the British sense to bring shame upon a woman? Should we all be talking smack about women behind their backs, is this FFR's attempt at segregation?

Or is it used as a misnomer for the way to make a potato sprout. Are we all just seedlings (potatolings?) trying to sprout our wings upwards to the heavens?

Remove the chit, remove the confusion. Just make it 'chat', or 'chat zone' for the trendy.

[bmah]

Don't confuse "suppression of free speech" with "trampling all over the general forum rules." Posting threads that promote little substance and meaning is not the same as posting topics that relate to FFR. Frankly, people should stop misconstruing these things as a justification to post topics of super-hollow conversations (and antagonize mods for locking them). Had enough of this sort of self-righteousness.

[Mourningfall]

Apologies, I may have confused the two. Where do we draw the line on substance? if it engages responses and provokes conversation, who's to say what is or isn't spam? oh yeah the mods, nevermind.

Originally Posted by Dinglesberry

I'm predicting, it comes from chitter - its a word for the sound that small animals, think like squirrels, rodents, etc make - the small squeekin sound or w/e lol

To me this implies chit chat --> Chat that isn't necessarily as significant, and is just random stuff.

so
chit = small
chat = talk

smalltalk

I feel like the veil has been lifted and I see the world with perfect clarity for the first time

[Mourningfall]

I request we rename the small talk subforum to something more appropriate

[bmah]

Originally Posted by Mourningfall

if it engages responses and provokes conversation, who's to say what is or isn't spam? oh yeah the mods, nevermind.

See, this is what I mean by mod antagonism. Cut out the cynicism please.

We're not here to define exactly what topics can or cannot be discussed, but at the same time, I feel that many people probably know better in those situations. If you get the feeling that a thread will not likely promote meaningful conversation, or if it feels like there's not much to discuss or has an air of "spamminess", then don't do it. It's something that I think is intuitively pretty obvious and doesn't need to be rigidly outlined.

Also, refer to this announcement.

"If you feel like something is pushing a reasonable limit, you are probably right and shouldn't do it."
"No administration needs a definable rule to ban any given user. The above rule exists to use as an explanation to people who try to avoid the rules by thin lines."

Also, I'm open to suggestions on changing the name of this forum. Any ideas?

[Mourningfall]

Ok boss, but why does chitchat have to promote meaningful conversation? We have a Critical thinking subforum specifically geared towards those who want to put thought and effort into their posts, and we have a garbage bin for those people who don't. Why do we even need a chitchat? why not abolish CC and make TGB public? That way there's a publicly available area for people to talk leisurely without need for structured meaningful conversations. Kills two birds with one stone.

Originally Posted by bmah

"No administration needs a definable rule to ban any given user. The above rule exists to use as an explanation to people who try to avoid the rules by thin lines."

noted.

[bmah]

I'm not "boss", I'm just bmah thanks.

Chit Chat simply refers to the topics discussed in this forum (general topics); it doesn't imply that threads should be almost structureless.

I'd say that the CT forum is certainly a step above this forum in regards to formality, and TGB is a step more casual than here. I can't really comment on whether TGB should be public or not, but it's something that you can discuss. I have a feeling the people of TGB probably wouldn't like that forum becoming public, but I can't speak for them.

[TheRapingDragon]

Originally Posted by bmah

Posting threads that promote little substance and meaning is not the same as posting topics that relate to FFR. Frankly, people should stop misconstruing these things as a justification to post topics of super-hollow conversations

Since when did chit chat threads have to relate to FFR? Isn't that what the FFR sections (General Talk, Events, Batch, Profiles) are for? The description for chit chat is 'A group of forums for discussing topics of general interest that don't fit into one of the other categories.'

We have subsections for birthdays where people just say 'happy birthday' over and over again, with little substance or meaning. How can you justify that as acceptable then turn around and say that people need to avoid topics of 'super-hollow conversations'?

Just let people talk and have fun. It's not a big community, it's not something that needs rigidly scrutinised, we're not going to have any effect on the greater world view. So long as it's not racist, sexist, inflammatory, etc etc. then it should be acceptable.

Originally Posted by bmah

Chit Chat simply refers to the topics discussed in this forum (general topics); it doesn't imply that threads should be almost structureless.

Can you explain to me why topics must be structured? Real life conversations are often aimless yet it works for people all over the world.

At work, we'll talk about everything and anything and some of the best conversations I've had have stemmed from a beginning that seemed pointless. It's how conversation works.

Originally Posted by bmah

I'm not "boss", I'm just bmah thanks.

Yes, you are:

administrator
noun
1.
a person responsible for carrying out the administration of a business or organization.
synonyms: manager, director, managing director, executive, chief executive, controller, chair, chairperson, chairman, chairwoman, head, boss, chief, principal, official, leader, governor, premier, president, superintendent, supervisor, employer, proprietor; More

[bmah]

Originally Posted by TheRapingDragon

Since when did chit chat threads have to relate to FFR? Isn't that what the FFR sections (General Talk, Events, Batch, Profiles) are for?

You completely missed what I said.

In response to this:

this game gets pretty stale when we're only allowed to talk about arrows to music

This is a misconstrued comment.
I'm saying that the Chit Chat forum is for discussing a wide variety of topics, not just FFR-related stuff. The OP is arguing for threads of little substance for discussion to be allowed; in doing so, he refers to his point that the game "gets pretty stale when we're only allowed to talk about arrows" but this is completely untrue for Chit Chat.

Originally Posted by TheRapingDragon

Can you explain to me why topics must be structured? Real life conversations are often aimless yet it works for people all over the world.

At work, we'll talk about everything and anything and some of the best conversations I've had have stemmed from a beginning that seemed pointless. It's how conversation works.

Because this is a forum, not a chatroom. Albeit, this is the standard forum with rules that you'd probably expect in many other forums on other websites. And of course, there are alternatives in case you do believe that less moderation should be around (TGB - which itself has asserted itself to be a completely respectable forum). I don't see why you're complaining when you have alternatives.

Originally Posted by TheRapingDragon

Yes, you are:

administrator
noun
1.
a person responsible for carrying out the administration of a business or organization.
synonyms: manager, director, managing director, executive, chief executive, controller, chair, chairperson, chairman, chairwoman, head, boss, chief, principal, official, leader, governor, premier, president, superintendent, supervisor, employer, proprietor; More

Let's not get semantic here. I just want a serious talk about these sort of things in a casual way without the contrived portrayal of me seeming like a big meanie. As I said earlier, there's a lot of antagonistic feelings towards mods in general, and so I think there's no need to reassert the notion of a power struggle through insisting on proper titles. I'm just bmah. This is just you with me. Not "normal user" with "boss".

[Mourningfall]

Straying from the topic, we don't see you as a big meanie, just a mature individual in a position of higher power.

OP does argue for freedom to post threads of little significance,
when more accurately it should be arguing for the freedom converse with our peers without fear of moderation.

I'm reminded of Travis Flesher of all people. Kid just wanted to know how trains work, made a CT thread, I gave him the answer.
within seconds: thread deleted; user banned.

I know this wasn't your doing bmah so don't assume I'm attacking anything for reflecting on the past. I just feel the situation couldve been handled better. Could've been moved to CC and given a chance to grow into something worth locking.

just a little example of power abuse and why there's a level of cynicism towards mods.

[bmah]

Originally Posted by Mourningfall

I'm reminded of Travis Flesher of all people. Kid just wanted to know how trains work, made a CT thread, I gave him the answer.
within seconds: thread deleted; user banned.

Hmm, I'm curious about what went on in that situation, even though I wasn't around. I might not be correct on this, but maybe he was trolling?

Which brings me to another point: on the occasion that people make troll threads (just for kicks or whatever other reason), it can possibly reduce the trust amongst everyone else. Suddenly it becomes difficult to differentiate an inocuous thread and a thread where the boy cries wolf. Almost like a "made you look" sort of situation, you know what I mean? Then all sorts of things can go wrong when a non-troll thread is deleted, or misunderstandings can occur if a real troll thread is deleted and other users aren't aware of the poster's history. It honestly makes moderation that much harder, because mods are still held to the same standards when false threads litter the forum like a mine field, and anyone would have a difficult time picking out the real thing or trying to explain the situation to other people. :/

Whatever happened in that thread you mentioned I'm not sure, but it could've easily fallen into the situation I explained above. But yeah, it was probably better to let that thread continue and let observations happen for a while longer before a decision could be made. (Usually though, it's not too hard to tell if someone's dicking around.)

[Mourningfall]

Yeah I feel ya. I'm beginning to see why there's not more lenience towards low quality threads, too.
If I were an admin (or a mod), I'd want this shit on my resume, and I'd want it to look respectable to my employer. having "Latest forum posts" on the homepage and having 80% of those being low quality, no quality discussions would probably not look good on your abilities to moderate or administrate. So there's that.

There's also solid arguments for convenience and tidiness, but they're pre self exanatory.

TRD raises a good point about the birthday subforum though, pretty redundant when we have a comment section on our profiles and a very visible "Today's Birthdays" at the bottom of the index, if any subforum were to be abolished, I'd probably pick that over the small talk subforum

[bmah]

I'll be really honest about this: I feel that I was voted as best mod/admin in the past probably because I moderated quite little in the past, and people liked that lack of interference. But there comes a time when it turns into a situation where people are just taking advantage of you and you are effectively a likable but ineffective mod. So now when I actually attempt to put my foot down, this stuff happens. Admittedly this wasn't all that surprising, but I'd appreciate if others could see my point of view. Really though, thanks for the understanding, Mourn.

[devonin]

To the point that chitchat ought to be for literally whatever, because there are subforums for more structured discussion: Chit-chat as a forum is just a catchall for legitimate threads that don't belong anywhere else.

Discussing stuff in the news in a Not-CT way, general talking about stuff like the "I bought a car" thread and whatnot. Heck, "post pictures of cats" and "post pictures of dogs" are both threads that were left running with no issues.

Posting a thread called "yo" with the first post "sup" is not a thread, it's not a discussion. There's a place for random thoughts. It's called "Random Thoughts" on your profile. You can have random conversations with other people back and forth on profile walls.

Threads in chit-chat don't need to be about a particular subject, but they need to be about -something- and that's basically all that is asked for.

Believe me, there's discussion happening about where that thin line is between "We only want good content" and "We want any content because activity is very important" and I don't think anybody is actually moderating with too heavy a hand, or without any forethought.

[Charu]

I feel this thread was made directly because of what happened that night when some of us on FFR decided to be silly. The topic about what makes "chit-chat" isn't going to solve the problem that I'm assuming this thread is trying to address.

"Here we go!"

I've already talked to one of ya mods about it and I did not disapprove what you did! I just don't agree with in which you went about it. Very much you should mod threads if they have super low content if they're not in TGB, IE: My thread you folks deleted in that bunch. However, the thing you guys decided to ultimately do is lock and delete ALL the threads that were in mockery of one of the other.

The other threads had different content within them. It might've NOT been the best content, or rather the most engaging and or absurd content of things that will never happen and are there to incite some jokes, but still content.

So then the next question is "If there's multiple threads being made in a short time spam, should I stop the technically correct threads as I'm modding the super low content ones?"

Well... that just means you need to amend the rules to disallow a sudden influx of threads if you mods truly feel that FFR should not deal with threads that are trying to make some laughs and have everyone join the fun.

PS: I'm totally in support for having TGB visible again and without the silly keycard crud. Never understood why it was done in the first place.

PPS: Nevermind, just remembered why as I thought back further. It was because of that shitty Garbage Bin meta where you had to go through rites of passage or something. It was incredibly dumb and I remember some users actually getting site wide banned because of it. It's like ??????

PPPS: They don't do that anymore, so it's safe.