Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Terror to Terror has a 6.25 average after tossing highest/lowest, sigh. looks like it won't make it, unfortunately. I'll make the two minor changes to patterns and possibly resend it later but I'm not doing much with it.

Just a thought, but have you tried using patterns that aren't deliberately intended to be awful? Even YOU seem to hate your recent ingame charts. I'm sure you could make a great file if you weren't trying to troll players with it.

[DossarLX ODI]

dore deliberately used crappy anchor patterns in White Walls for "extreme difficulty". Terror to Terror really wasn't any better than that

If anything, the ratings Terror to Terror got were much higher than I was expecting

[hi19hi19]

Also a quick thought:

Can we please stop accepting artmania easy files? This is especially pertinent considering the next batch will concern these files exclusively.

A song in the 1-5 difficulty range, and arguably 6 & 7 as well, should have solid, constant rhythms. They are intended to provide a good way for players to improve their reading and timing abilities.
They are NOT intended to confuse the **** out of people who play them.

What an easy chart does not need is weird dicksynced rhythms, hypertechnical polyrhythmic layering, obnoxious grace notes everywhere, ~expressivemanian color theory~ etc
Save that "inspiration" for harder files, where at least people are used to how annoying those gimmicks are.
There's been so many of these files added recently that it's diluting the pool of easy files that are actually good for beginners...

[DossarLX ODI]

I can actually agree with that hi19hi19 haha, while Silvuh's piano files are synced pretty well and aren't really incorrect in the technical sense, they're not friendly to newer players since they don't follow a constant rhythm. This is surely NOT a way to get new players to improve, they'll more likely just get confused haha. A few of these files is fine, but lately there has been a massive influx of them.

Originally Posted by kommisar

given the way dossar has been reviewing things ~legit~ for sm I'm not sure he should've been judging for FFR, but whatever.

This better not be referring to that 1/10 thread

[megamon88]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

Also a quick thought:

Can we please stop accepting artmania easy files? This is especially pertinent considering the next batch will concern these files exclusively.

A song in the 1-5 difficulty range, and arguably 6 & 7 as well, should have solid, constant rhythms. They are intended to provide a good way for players to improve their reading and timing abilities.
They are NOT intended to confuse the **** out of people who play them.

What an easy chart does not need is weird dicksynced rhythms, hypertechnical polyrhythmic layering, obnoxious grace notes everywhere, ~expressivemanian color theory~ etc
Save that "inspiration" for harder files, where at least people are used to how annoying those gimmicks are.
There's been so many of these files added recently that it's diluting the pool of easy files that are actually good for beginners...

This is definitely an issue that should be addressed.

Look at samurai's FAREAST HARDSTYLERZ for example - it was pretty much just 4ths the whole way through with a single 8th trill thrown in. It wasn't really following much in terms of technicality, but for a beginner it would be a straightforward file to play (hitting notes on the beat), with a small spike to challenge them. A beginner would probably prefer this over a variable bpm piano song, or even a piano song in general. Judging by the reviews though, this sort of file won't get in by today's standards due to "understepping" or "blandness". (I'm guilty of this too btw)

Any thoughts?

[hi19hi19]

Basically every new player I show the game winds up playing Breaking the Common and Secret Zombie Room.
Despite all the technicalmania shit that's been added recently, I notice these two files *always* became favorites with people who are improving.

And to think these files, which are so good for beginners, would be so soundly rejected by today's judges lol
I wish there were some non-legacy simple files like those two that were just really good for beginners to build their skills on.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by qqwref

Just a thought, but have you tried using patterns that aren't deliberately intended to be awful? Even YOU seem to hate your recent ingame charts. I'm sure you could make a great file if you weren't trying to troll players with it.

I hated Scrap Syndrome because it was considerably harder than I wanted to be, but I sent it in anyway and it got straight [+] ratings. Not going argue with those kinds of ratings because it's obvious that other judges saw something in the file that I don't, and honestly, now that time has passed, I don't hate it all that much anymore - it's one of the FGOs I have left that I enjoy and get legitimately pumped up to play because the ending is extremely difficult (and memorable) at that. Initially, yeah - this file was intended to be a ridiculous difficult/trolly chart, before I submitted it, I toned down a LOT of the patterns. That's right, this file was brutal and easily a FSO. But I was nice enough to at least make it playable.

I'm also getting a bit tired of people telling me how I should/shouldn't chart my songs on a subjective level.

Said it once and I'm saying it again: I don't want Terror to Terror being anything less than a high FGO, which is why I stepped everything the way that I did. If people don't like it, they can re-cut the song and step it themselves.

[icontrolyourworld]

I really want Mmmmmmm to go into the game the way it is. I honestly believe it would be a very nice addition to the game! Especially since there is no other file quite like it in the game :')

@kommi's review:
-the sync feels very late. it might just be me, but check again in case.
It's gotta be you, I use ddream all the time and the other judges said the sync was fine


-m8 listen to these 32nds carefully. They aren't exactly one complete roll
I didn't step it as a solid roll, towards the end of it, on the 8th note i made it as a jump to go with the song more accurately but still keeping the flow. Plus it would be a bit awkward to have 1 colorful roll while the rest are 32nd rolls

-immediately after this section, you decide to step all the background 16th hi-hats which basically just turns this whole file into a gigantic dumpstream
I was going for a dense jumpstream file anyways so...

-So much more could've been done with this file had it not been solely done as jumpstream. In moderation, that would've been fine, but this is ridiculous. Most sections could be done much differently.
It would be a better idea to have a challenging DJ Sharpnel that isn't stepped like all the other ones in game right now. The way I see things; no one else would probably ever submit a file like this because it's so much different than what ffr is used to seeing.



@loenid's review:
- Nothing really wrong with the layering and stuff, but seriously? Nonstop 190bpm handstream for 4 minutes? That's like a much gayer version of Pants, but I can't reject simfiles just because I don't enjoy them, right? Maybe this chart will raise the bar of "good stamina players" in FFR..
Yea seriously. Nonstop JS/HS for 4minutes. (the rest isn't really a review, not sure if the first 2 bits are either.)



@Dossar's review:
- I think a cut at 98.35 would be amazing, because a marathon file like this is not suitable for FFR with how absolutely dense the trill-type handstream is. I wasn't really a fan of the 32nd transitions, but if this is going to go into FFR with its density, it needs to be cut. This file has more notes than Vertex Beta vROFL in its current state, haha (fun fact: with its length being just shy of four and a half minutes, its TPS is 17.827. That is higher than *RATO*. Now add a long duration to that!)
-It wouldn't be as challenging anymore, and I'd really like to keep it without a cut.
-The 32nds are all jumpthrillable, so it's not that bad and I'd really like to keep it without a cut.

- An appropriate method to toning down this file would be limiting hand usage, starting from measure 25. Layering the vocals only like you did before this point would reduce the massive density of this file and make it more playable to other players.
That would make the file more bland and uninteresting, plus it would reduce the difficulty i feel too much and ffr needs a dense handstream file

- I really can't stand 4 minutes of this file honestly, it's basically the same thing throughout. With a cut, this file would make an excellent dense file.
My favorite kind of file is one like this, and I'd really like to keep it without a cut. xD


Overall kommi says no because dense jumpstream. leonid says nothing wrong with it but low score o.o? dossars the only judge that wants a cut, so i feel i shouldn't have to cut the song if other judges never mentioned it.

The rest of the judges seemed to like it quite a bit, so i'm inclined to believe this kind of file will get a low score purely if the judge juding it doesn't like this type file

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by icontrolyourworld

It would be a better idea to have a challenging DJ Sharpnel that isn't stepped like all the other ones in game right now. The way I see things; no one else would probably ever submit a file like this because it's so much different than what ffr is used to seeing.

lol hi

But no, we don't want unique charts here in FFR, we want the same style of artmania chart to standard "stepmania music" that we already have 1000 times in the game already.
Brb gonna go step some more generic Sharpnel, SSH, Virt, Flashbulb, BMS of Fighters shit, and MOSAIC.WAV

[DossarLX ODI]

I wish we had permission for Theatrix, that would make for some non-color note easy files

[AlexDest]

brb stepping data drain technically

[dore]

how to make easy chart:

find a song that sounds cool
be shitty at playing one-handed
make something that you find fun one-handed

that's how I do it

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

dore deliberately used crappy anchor patterns in White Walls for "extreme difficulty".

I didn't do anything in White Walls for the sake of difficulty, I just didn't water anything down. I used trills for double bass rolls throughout the whole thing, not my fault homeboy doubled the speed through that section. I never chart things for the sake of difficulty because honestly I don't give a damn if something is annoying for playing for score.

[00Razor00]

Originally Posted by AlexDest

brb stepping data drain technically

kil yaself

[Reshiram]

Originally Posted by AlexDest

brb stepping data drain technically

No get out of here

>:C

[bmah]

Hey guys, check out the batch review thread! There's an update.

kjwkjw has sent his notes in as a supportive judge for a number of passed files. If your file was given a [PASS] rating or no numerical rating, please check it out.

[sticklydude]

cool, an 8

8)

[hi19hi19]

Now just to wait a little bit until the final ratings are done.
Then wait a little bit more for the queued files to actually start getting into the game.
Then wait a little bit more for the next batch, send re-submits, and do it all over again.


If nothing else, FFR teaches patience.

[iironiic]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

If nothing else, FFR teaches patience.

Words of wisdom :3

[icontrolyourworld]

Originally Posted by icontrolyourworld

I really want Mmmmmmm to go into the game the way it is. I honestly believe it would be a very nice addition to the game! Especially since there is no other file quite like it in the game :')

@kommi's review:
-the sync feels very late. it might just be me, but check again in case.
It's gotta be you, I use ddream all the time and the other judges said the sync was fine


-m8 listen to these 32nds carefully. They aren't exactly one complete roll
I didn't step it as a solid roll, towards the end of it, on the 8th note i made it as a jump to go with the song more accurately but still keeping the flow. Plus it would be a bit awkward to have 1 colorful roll while the rest are 32nd rolls

-immediately after this section, you decide to step all the background 16th hi-hats which basically just turns this whole file into a gigantic dumpstream
I was going for a dense jumpstream file anyways so...

-So much more could've been done with this file had it not been solely done as jumpstream. In moderation, that would've been fine, but this is ridiculous. Most sections could be done much differently.
It would be a better idea to have a challenging DJ Sharpnel that isn't stepped like all the other ones in game right now. The way I see things; no one else would probably ever submit a file like this because it's so much different than what ffr is used to seeing.



@loenid's review:
- Nothing really wrong with the layering and stuff, but seriously? Nonstop 190bpm handstream for 4 minutes? That's like a much gayer version of Pants, but I can't reject simfiles just because I don't enjoy them, right? Maybe this chart will raise the bar of "good stamina players" in FFR..
Yea seriously. Nonstop JS/HS for 4minutes. (the rest isn't really a review, not sure if the first 2 bits are either.)



@Dossar's review:
- I think a cut at 98.35 would be amazing, because a marathon file like this is not suitable for FFR with how absolutely dense the trill-type handstream is. I wasn't really a fan of the 32nd transitions, but if this is going to go into FFR with its density, it needs to be cut. This file has more notes than Vertex Beta vROFL in its current state, haha (fun fact: with its length being just shy of four and a half minutes, its TPS is 17.827. That is higher than *RATO*. Now add a long duration to that!)
-It wouldn't be as challenging anymore, and I'd really like to keep it without a cut.
-The 32nds are all jumpthrillable, so it's not that bad and I'd really like to keep it without a cut.

- An appropriate method to toning down this file would be limiting hand usage, starting from measure 25. Layering the vocals only like you did before this point would reduce the massive density of this file and make it more playable to other players.
That would make the file more bland and uninteresting, plus it would reduce the difficulty i feel too much and ffr needs a dense handstream file

- I really can't stand 4 minutes of this file honestly, it's basically the same thing throughout. With a cut, this file would make an excellent dense file.
My favorite kind of file is one like this, and I'd really like to keep it without a cut. xD


Overall kommi says no because dense jumpstream. leonid says nothing wrong with it but low score o.o? dossars the only judge that wants a cut, so i feel i shouldn't have to cut the song if other judges never mentioned it.

The rest of the judges seemed to like it quite a bit, so i'm inclined to believe this kind of file will get a low score purely if the judge juding it doesn't like this type file

Ah with the update I guess I'll add on to this

Mmmmmmm (icontrolyourworld) [+?] (4/10)
==========
- The song title reflects my thoughts upon first seeing this file
lol

- Song itself is pretty darn repetitive - feels even longer than 4:22. Strongly recommend a cut.
Welllllll I don't see the problem here. I'm sorry

- Almost all of the file is straight jump/handstream. At almost 18tps. (The midsection was a good change of things)Granted, it's Sharpnel, but the chart feels like it's better suited for SM than for FFR
Overall you're saying you don't think this file would be good for ffr? Please explain why? Stepmania has lots of variance with over 30,000 simfiles available for download, FFR has a little over 1000 and I think it would be quite nice to have dynamically different charts that challenge the player in different aspects of the arrow smashing ways.

- Your layering starts off great, but once you start layering multiple instruments over the basic 16th stream, it causes jumps/hands everywhere, which takes away from emphasizing certain beats. It just feels like generic hard jumpstream with hands mixed in.
I don't see how this file is generic in any way. If anything it's absolutely 100% completely different compared to just about every other chart on FFR

- Could be a fun chart for higher-end players, but the file does need some variation/shortening. Otherwise (from a technical point of view) there's not much that's weird.
-I believe this would be a very fun chart for higher-end player.
-Why such a low score? Just because of the length of the song?


Last thoughts: Well I appear to have gotten fairly good reviews, no one said there was anything wrong with my file (meaning the arrows were synced, layered it well etc.) (accept for kommisar who said it was out of sync) but I got low scores for the most part...

This submission has been quite the adventure for me; I wanted to see how the judges would review this file. 4/6 didn't mention the length of the file being a problem so I don't think I'll cut off 3000+ notes, but I do really hope it still gets in. If my feedback/notes seem harsh towards the judges, I'm not mad I'm just saying I think that this file shouldn't be rejected if there's nothing objectively wrong with it, and there are people out there who would like to play this type of file. (Especially me)

If any of my feedback may turn the tables in favor of adding it to the game, that would make me a happy panda xD
It would be really nice to have 1 stamina draining file that isn't VROFL or Death Piano or something dumb where you have to actually mash.

Edit: while I'm at it I'll add in the other 2 reviewers notes as well

Megamon's review:
Mmmmmmm (icontrolyourworld) [8/10]
-wow, more steps than anything else in-game
yes indeed!

-for a 4-min js file, it actually does well in keeping things interesting
thank you

-16th jumps at m60 don't seem to go to anything
They go to the vocals.

-16ths at the beginning of m82 to vocals seem out of place
You're right, that's pretty much the only thing about this file that urks me. I should fix that (plus you're the only one that caught that!)

-some pattern choice is iffy - one-handed trill chains are going to be inevitable in the dense handstream but try to keep it to a minimum (for the most part though patterns were really well done)
For the most part I do avoid 1 handed thrills as much as possible, you won't find anything in this file longer than 1 measure for sure.

-great stamina file, not many other songs are as relentless as this one
I agree, this is one of the reasons I believe it would be great for ffr

TC Halogens review
Mmmmmmm (icontrolyourworld)
Rating: [+.] [7/10]
-> offset looks good, sync is good too
you look good :3

- not going to lie, at first I wanted to just give you like a 4/10 for how long and repetitive the jumpstream is. (-2)
- however, a point for passing a file like this is that there really isn't any other stamina-heavy jumpstream file like this, and it is appropriately executed.

- 88.237: if you really wanted to be mean, you could switch the direction of the roll to accommodate for the fade into reverse bass-drum
haha i considered it, but I figured it would flow better this way

- 252.623: this boost in layering doesn't seem called for, really (-1)
Dramatic Climax!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously it's that little bit of extra layering that gives it just a bit more edge in difficulty, I find it to be a good thing xD

- some relevance to vocals or melody would have been really nice, but I'm not going to complain
I don't think I quite understand? you mean pitch relevance? because that's a very hard thing to do in a dense file haha

- this file has a very old school touch, for sure; very heavy jump usage typically geared toward some sort of percussion, whether it be claps, drums, or even following the melody, you always know what a jump is following.


- definitely interested in seeing the kind of scores this file will produce
Me too, I think it would be a great challenge for you, me, and anyone else who plays the file!

[hi19hi19]

Yeah the only real public file that is remotely stamina draining is Death Piano.
There's vROFL which is just stupid and maybe Freedom Dive kinda, but honestly by today's standards even that is just too short to be considered a real stamina file. Besides they're both tokens...

It's a niche that needs to be filled in my mind, whether or not Mmmmmmm is the specific file to do it, well that's not my choice. But I'd really like to advocate thinking of how a file would fit in the game as a whole, and keeping an open mind about breaking the status quo. Chances are, there's a group of players out there that would enjoy something different!
(Add me to the group of players who would like playing Mmmmmmm in FFR haha)