|
View Poll Results: Do you think rates > 1.0 should count for scores? | |||
Yes | 45 | 59.21% | |
Nope | 31 | 40.79% | |
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
02-23-2014, 01:20 PM | #41 |
moonchild~
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
/thread
__________________
|
02-23-2014, 01:31 PM | #42 | ||
Nescio quid faciam
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 892
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
TIL 200 bpm jumpstream requires same button presses/timing as 240 bpm. (you know what the fuck i meant)
Quote:
rates makes things jump trilllable and can cause ridiculous jacks... mirror doesnt make anything go universally easier, you still have to hit that trill/jack/anchor at the same speed. If a file is side biased (mama) you can only level the playing field between left/right handed people, the bias is still there. Quote:
I pushed for this shit back in the last official and it was made very clear as to why it wasnt going to happen. But feel free to selectively read this post and twist the words to what you need them to mean as to continue with these great "counter-arguments". I'm done here Last edited by omega_grunt666; 02-23-2014 at 01:45 PM.. |
||
02-23-2014, 01:41 PM | #43 | |
nanodesu~
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
Quote:
Despite this, the timing window remains the same size which does make songs "easier" at the cost of speed. Scaling the timing windows proportionate to the rate would probably alleviate everyone's concerns about rates making certain songs easier through cheating/jumptrilling/whatever, but would also make everything on rates hard as hell to PA. A lot of people in the old thread wanted the flipside of this: rate scores don't record, but still grant GTS and credits. Songs on rates are scaled exactly to the rate in ms timing, so the resulting sped-up charts aren't locked to 30fps frames. Pattern structure/timing therefore doesn't change at all from the original, as the notes aren't getting re-framed.
__________________
FMO AAAs (1): Within Life :: FGO AAAs (1): Einstein-Rosen Bridge Last edited by arcnmx; 02-23-2014 at 09:44 PM.. |
|
02-23-2014, 01:45 PM | #44 | |||||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 8,563
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
Quote:
let's take this simple jumpstream pattern: 1100 0010 0101 1000 0011 at 200 bpm and at 240 bpm, it would, quite literally, be the same exact pattern as opposed to playing on mirror, which would cause the jumpstream pattern to be 0011 0100 1010 0001 1100 if you'd like, I can show you a number of ways why these aren't the same patterns Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||||
02-23-2014, 01:48 PM | #45 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 585
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
I'm going to vote no for this. Although rates make most files harder, there will be no more difficulty for the longer, easier files like Song for the Nihonjins, Visions (NRGyzd) and so on. Mental stamina does come into play when considering these types of files; it's probably the reason why DSoK [Heavy] is an FMO.
|
02-23-2014, 01:48 PM | #46 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 8,563
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
Quote:
I don't think this is a very good point, as the majority of "these types of files" are simply not fun beyond possible nostalgia factor. |
|
02-23-2014, 01:55 PM | #47 | |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 585
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
Quote:
If we're looking to attract more players, then yes, record rates. I'm all for it! EDIT: Actually, it's quite easy to rush the 8ths, which is why playing on rates might make it easier. Last edited by ___________; 02-23-2014 at 02:00 PM.. |
|
02-23-2014, 01:58 PM | #48 |
Administrator
User Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC
Age: 29
Posts: 3,902
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
Um, what? Even on 1.1x rate, Song for the Nihonjins is no longer a 25. 120bpm =/= 132bpm. Give me an example of one stepfile that would be given a lower or equal difficulty rating on rates.
|
02-23-2014, 02:02 PM | #49 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 8,563
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
Quote:
synthlight files would be slightly easier. I personally don't think synthlight files should still be a part of levelranks but that's a completely different topic however I will say that if someone thinks that playing through the synthlight files is some sort of "badge," i suggest they read up on the definition of a game |
|
02-23-2014, 03:16 PM | #50 |
Celestial Harbor
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
also, this was talked about before in the previous thread, but it's definitely been addressed by the higher skill-level players, i.e. AJ and such, where cheating patterns like the skeletor roll by having a higher rate is /not/ worth the speed trade off for the initial jumpstream section. In order to cheat the ending rolls, you'd need something like a 1.2x or so, but the jumpstream gets dumb, and even the roll gets stupidly fast, so it's still dumb. If you have the skill to AAA the file before the rolls on 1.2, then you're most likely already able to AAA the file on 1.0. This is just an example though
also choof has been giving stuff about mirror, arguably mirror makes many files much easier than rates would make them. |
02-23-2014, 04:09 PM | #51 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 8,563
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
trade off was the term I was looking for, thanks
I can't think of any files where it would be worth the trade off to play at higher rates for a single section |
02-23-2014, 04:25 PM | #52 |
no
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 33
Posts: 1,850
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
yes
|
02-23-2014, 08:57 PM | #53 |
Nescio quid faciam
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 892
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
Sorry, I should know not to post when going on 19 hours awake with 4 hours of sleep, very rude of me, I apologize.
I will concede in 99.99% of situations, rates will make it harder, but its still the case that it usually requires an entirely different set of skills compared to the original file. It just seems weird and pointless to waste those scores on a system that barely credits you for them. All you really get out of it is the ability to shortcut your levelranks. If we're getting Raw Scoring with the site rework, would it be so hard to also figure out a system for rates scores? Maybe some sort of multiplier based on the rate so that assuming all AAA scores, the highest rate would be at the top of the leader board. I'll leave the exact math to someone more knowledgeable to which speed a 20g run is technically more impressive then an SDG. It would also be a good idea to limit it to multiples of 0.1x to avoid shenanigans. If we want to ignore the other engines, then we might as well let them record for GTS and award credits. I mean you still have to push the buttons, if you are capable of playing at a higher speed for longer periods of time then someone else, why should you be held back. It certainly levels the playing field for gamewhore competitions without having to ban Vrofl. Also has the added benefit of a new time of contest, Vrofl speedrun, since it basically removes the minimum time required to gather that much GTS since you could spam as fast as your speed/stamina allow you. As for mirror, I still say its going to make just as many songs harder as it would easier. And which songs it makes easier are entirely subjective, you might be better or worse at a certain pattern with one hand over the other (beyond just being left/right handed). But the difficulty of the song is the same generally speaking. I would say speed mods and scroll settings have a more universal effect on difficulty, but again its all subjective difficulty. The point was that rates change what is challenging about a song, like mentioned before, mental stamina is just as much a skill as anything else. Sure a Turbo AAA would imply you are capable of AAAing Club, but you should still have to go back and do it if you want complete level ranks. Likewise, a score on a rates song would generally mean you can match or beat that score on the non-moded file, but you should still be expected to play it like the author intended if those are the scores you want to compete with. |
02-23-2014, 09:38 PM | #54 | |
No fucks
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 2,440
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
Quote:
|
|
02-23-2014, 09:43 PM | #55 |
I am leonid
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: MOUNTAIN VIEW
Age: 34
Posts: 8,080
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
It's like participating in 100m sprints with 50m sprint record with timer ticking twice as fast. I say no
|
02-23-2014, 10:25 PM | #56 | ||||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 8,563
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
Quote:
Quote:
Of course, at some point the rolls become jump trillable but like YoshL pointed out, the trade off won't ever be worth it. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This analogy would fit if FFR was a contest 24/7. During Officials, I definitely agree that rate scores shouldn't count. Not for any particular reason, only because of the "spirit of competition." Or something. Last edited by choof; 02-23-2014 at 10:30 PM.. |
||||||||||
02-23-2014, 10:41 PM | #57 |
No fucks
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 2,440
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
What are the arguments as to why rates should be allowed on the leaderboard?
|
02-23-2014, 11:05 PM | #58 |
Celestial Harbor
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
because it makes ffr fun for people who want to go through level ranks, and gives incentive to play easier songs.
it makes ffr more fun for those people, and doesn't make it any less fun for anyone else. |
02-23-2014, 11:13 PM | #59 |
the Haku
Join Date: Jul 2005
Age: 35
Posts: 4,517
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
If I play something like For FFR ending and throw some higher rates on, can I jumptrill AAA more easily because the framers are closer at higher speedmod?
|
02-23-2014, 11:30 PM | #60 | |
Celestial Harbor
|
Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record
Quote:
edit: and there's still like, 230~ish bpm stream if you play it on 1.3, which is not entirely fun. for the rating of file that it is (67), and comparing it to some other stuff, like gacha radio, JULIAN, Oops, etc. if you can hit the 230 bpm stuff and AAA it, then you can (in theory) also AAA the rest of the file on 1.0x, but the file has the dumb rolls at the end. comparitively, extratone pirates is slower than for ffr on 1.3 edit2: from my understanding, it takes like, the ms placement and squishes that together for rates, so you would be able to jumptrill "cheat" things easier on rates (i completely ignored the initial question sorry haku)
__________________
Last edited by YoshL; 02-23-2014 at 11:37 PM.. |
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|