Dog's Super Smash Bros. Brawl Ladder

[korny]

Manti isn't being a baby, he's absolutely right.

[OmniOstrich]

Originally Posted by korny

Manti isn't being a baby, he's absolutely right.

Truth. Until you go to a local tourny/competitive game (basically there has to be money on the line) you won't understand.

[zhul4nder]

I can connect to the internet, but in game play it's REALLY laggy. As in my moves that i command are at least a second or two behind of what i command. Is it because my internet is DSL? or is there something else i can do about it?

[Suicidalfatman]

kk well..i've had a new friend code so..anyone who doesnt have me on their list..let me know and Ill add yous again
once again here's my new code 0559-8393-3128

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by zidart

*sigh* ok i had a wonderful day until you came out and wrote that crap....

FIRST you oughta look yourself in the mirror before judging others, so you are going to tell me you didn't use the same techniques over and over AND OVER again??? please don't make me laugh.

I have a selection things I do, but you have ONE thing that you do. With Marth, you kept full hop forward aerial, and if you thought I was going to counter, you would use your second jump before doing the forward aerial. As Lucas, you would spam PK fire and wait for me to try to get in close, then put a down smash on me. You used these tactics A LOT, to the point where I was able to read them entirely, and the only reason I was still getting hit by them is that they are, at their base, good combos. But that's the thing. You shouldn't just know a single combo and use it a lot, even if it's a strong and effective one. You should know MANY combos, you should be able to COMBO ON THE FLY. You should be able to handle your character and be versatile in it. You should have more than one fallback technique, you should have more than one approach, you shouldn't just ****ing stand there spamming an attack.

Oh and by the way, because of the way YOU were fighting, I had to fight in a different way myself. I'm normally NOWHERE near as spammy with my neutral B and I normally don't use my dash attack as heavily either. You forced my hand though because of how you kept forcing me to approach ONLY from the ground. And with you standing there spamming, I'm going to end up spamming too to try to aid in getting through.

But yeah, I have plenty of things I do. Playing against you I was even able to work on a technique that I haven't ever been able to make effective use of, short hop neutral special, and a down smash upon landing. If done right I can even set it up so that I land behind you and the jolt will knock you into position in front of me... potentially, I suppose I could even forward smash, but doing that would require that the jolt knocks you just right, while down smash hits both sides.

SECOND so what if i chose shadow moses over and over again??? you kept using your pikachu and choosing final destination (which is a stage that actually gives pikachu the advantage so again look yourself in the mirror) so i decided to choose the stage that gives me an advantage and YOU a disadvantage.

Taking away my Thunder is not balance. Letting me use Thunder is balanced. How would you feel if there was a stage that made it so Lucas couldn't use PK Fire at all to hit his opponent? That would be pretty ****ty, wouldn't it?

When I choose Final Destination, it is because other stages are unfair to my moveset. It only gives me an "advantage" as far as balancing the scale of fairness back to level. I want to use my attack, the stage being designed to make me unable to use my attack is unfair.

Final Destination doesn't give me an inherent unfair advantage, it just lets me actually use my attack.

But Shadow Moses Island... it does a few things. It removes my ability to use Thunder (in almost all instances except one notable one that barely ever happens...), and it CREATES an advantage for you. It makes your spammy PK Fire tactic harder to break through. See, that tactic has an inherent strength, but it also has a natural weakness as well. You leave your back and top open to approaches. But when you put that sort of platform directly over you (and have your back to the wall so you'll never be killable), it FORCES your opponent to approach ONLY from directly in front of you, you know, they have to go THROUGH YOUR PK FIRES JUST TO TOUCH YOU. That is an example of a stage giving an advantage which is not an inherent property of the attack itself.

So Shadow Moses Island creates an unnatural advantage with that tactic, while Final Destination simply doesn't give or take any natural advantage from me.

THIRD i seem to recall i won several times before the last victory i had, overall you won more battles but i didn't leave in the few ones i won, if what you said was true then i would have left after the first and second match.

No, you won a few times. No more than 3, I think. But that's beside the point. To lose many matches in a row, then quit after winning one is just ****ty. Regardless of the intention, it comes off as "yay i won ok bye".

FOURTH i just happen to like 3 stocks, but i don't mind if you want 4 i will keep that in mind for future matches.

Then why did you change it back to 3 when I changed it to 4? I started off with 4, you changed to 3, I set it back to 4, then you put it to 3 again. Then when I tried to change it after that it was locked and I couldn't even access that option.

is true, i'm not a very experienced player but everyone has to start at some point, i was actually having fun in those matches even if i was at a disadvantage, and i really thought you were a great opponent but if you cry about small things like picking a stage then i guess you are not as great as i thought

I was just pissed off because on top of using annoying tactics during the match, you quit after winning, which is annoying as hell. And you know, I honestly was not sure who you were and Manti only said you were "someone from FFR" when you first joined. But I am pretty sure that you would know who "Afro", playing a match against Manti would be. You could have IM'd me, you know.

however i would be glad to fight again if you want...

I dunno... maybe. You need to learn how to manage your characters better though. There are a lot of really basic things that you could have used more effectively but didn't even TOUCH. Lucas's aerials, for example, have a lot of potential both as worthwhile attacks and as deterrents to your opponent being able to read your moves, but you would rather sit there on the ground spamming PK fire, even when you used it so much I read it perfectly and knew exactly what you were doing.

And that's without even touching more advanced things like RARs (which would be very useful with the Fire Emblem boys, notably Ike, who's back aerial is a lot faster to pop off and therefore a lot harder to read) and Bsticking (which can be AMAZING for Lucas), which, although being "advanced", aren't truly that difficult to learn and implement, if only used sparingly.

________________________________

Originally Posted by ducky285

People have figured D-smash is easy to DI out of so most Pika players only use it as a panic button move.

Even the best players here don't make as good of use of this as they should. It's still an effective tactic even against manti. Even if they get out of it, it's still useful for racking up damage quickly and easily. And because of how fast it is to put out, it doesn't even put me in much danger at all to use it the way I do. It's funny... I've even had times where I'll use my down smash and my opponent will try a forward smash or tilt or something, they're hitbox will just barely miss me, but them moving forward slightly can make them get sucked into my attack.

That's why it's best not to rely on it too much. Thunder is avoidable because it's easy to see coming and it'll get you killed against reflectors.

The only time I have ever had a major problem from an opponent using a REFLECTOR was yesterday someone being Falco. I've had a few Earthbound kid players who have been able to absord my thunders easily (to say nothing of Korny's bucket), but the first time I've had a major problem of getting hit by my own thunder only happened for the first time yesterday. Because Falco's reflector kicks out, he doesn't even have to be in the range of the attack to reflect it onto me, so he can make me get ****ed up without putting himself in harms way.

And as far as "easy to see coming", I'll go ahead and agree, but a lot of the time, it doesn't even matter. When my foe is recovering, for example, I will drop a B stick'd thunder off the edge there, but that doesn't necessarily need to strike them to be useful. Simply forcing them to avoid my attack can be useful enough on its own, even if the attack almost definitely will not hit them. Then there are other things, where I will use Thunder, knowing full well that they will not get hit, but knowing that it will make them hold back from hitting me. One thing I like to do, that I don't know if anyone who has played me has noticed, is full jump straight up and thunder while you're approaching. This leads me into two possible positions, you will likely stop just short of me, and whether I think you'll continue approaching as soon as the attack ends, I can down aerial or drop ANOTHER thunder. Another thing that I've taken to doing occasionally is to get a solid read on someone's dodging and get them to roll where I want to and make it so they'll roll into the close range of my thunder. Down smash is a lot easier to do this with, but close range thunder hit can kill at relatively low percents because of its nature to throw the opponent off to the side.

Quick Attack Canceling is the big technique from what I've seen. Chaingrabbing is useful, too.

Ironic given that those are two things I've decided to not do ever. I might be inclined to combo grabs, but I'd never be really cheap with them (unless I was in a SERIOUS tournament, but honestly, I would never do that anyway).

____________________________

Originally Posted by korny

Manti isn't being a baby, he's absolutely right.

I was exaggerating by saying that...

But I stand by what I said. Lag can be MUCH less depending on who you're playing, to the degree that it's negligible.

[Suicidalfatman]

Ironic given that those are two things I've decided to not do ever. I might be inclined to combo grabs, but I'd never be really cheap with them (unless I was in a SERIOUS tournament, but honestly, I would never do that anyway)

Don't most serious tournaments ban chain grabbing?

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by Suicidalfatman

Don't most serious tournaments ban chain grabbing?

I wouldn't know, but if they did, I would guess that it would just be a rule that you're not allowed to do it more than a certain amount of times, which is what I'd do anyway. I wouldn't run them back and forth across the stage, even if I could. That would be lame as hell to win that way... it'd totally remove any sort of fun.

[zidart]

everything here is @ Afrobean.

you did use the same techniques over and over and over again, i'd say if it ain't broke don't fix it right? true i'm still learing new techniques myself i'm just using the basic ones right now.

well that's kinda the point, change your way of fighting to beat your opponent.

don't you think final destination is unfair to those characters that don't have indirect attacks like ike and marth??? (though i ended up using lucas a lot) besides thunder is not pikachu's only attack he has plenty to choose from, you think not having a single attack can ruin the whole strategy??? then you are no different than me. (besides i chose shadow moses AND castle siege, the fact that most of the time i chose shadow moses we played on it was pure coincidence.)

i'm pretty sure i won over 3 of them XD. but seriously i don't leave after i win, i usually leave when i need to, and i had to eat lunch so i left.

i was going to contact you as soon as i could to tell you great match like i do with everyone, by posting it here but i didn't have access to a computer until later on in the day.

look i play brawl because is a fun and competitive game that lets you play the way you want and learn a few things on the way, i don't think you are right in the sense that WE have to play the way YOU want, i mean sure chain grabbing and spamming is annoying but that's how the game is, and you gotta work strategies to overcome those things, i don't think is fair that we HAVE to play your way because any other thing is annoying, is a fighting game, everything goes and the idea is to learn new things.

[korny]

Getting online right now. Pm me if you want to play.

[Afrobean]

I'd love to lose a few matches, Korny.

You think we could do a few random character matches too though?

[korny]

I don't mind doing random the entire time if you really want to.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by korny

I don't mind doing random the entire time if you really want to.

It's been a while and I'd like to see how I stack up in comparison since then. Definitely want to do at least one match with my Pika against your G&W.

[korny]

At a friends house. Friend code is 2878 9294 7131

[Gray Fox]

So, I challenge omni yet again. PM sent =]

[ducky285]

Originally Posted by Suicidalfatman

Don't most serious tournaments ban chain grabbing?

No, they don't. They haven't been proven to be broken enough to ban. Most examples of chaingrabs are limited by the stage or percentages as long as no wall is present.

ICs and Dedede have infinite grabs (DDD's is char specific; Mario, Luigi, Samus, Bowser and DK) and none have been banned by the larger Smash community. ICs infinite must be executed perfectly and you have to deal with their piss poor grab range. Though DDD's infinite is easy as crap given it's a standing infinite and DDD's grab range is ridiculous, it really just gives him 5 really good matchups and anyone who seriously mains those 5 should probably pick up a secondary who counters DDD (like T. Link) or one who is immune to his chaingrab altogether (like Jigglypuff).

Amusingly enough, Yoshi actually has an infinite release grab against Wario that requires perfect timing to work. Too bad the matchup heavily favors Wario as a whole.

Also, Ness and Lucas can be infinitely release-grabbed by Marth, and Ness can also be infinited by PT (Squirtle and Charizard). Again, this just presents a scenario where you'd be braindead if you picked Ness against Marth. Pick up a secondary.

[abbiemonGoesRaWr]

...wow... I've gone from super active to not at all on this thread.

So... I challenge Jordan for his spot tomorrow. :]
An IM will be sent. >:3

[Afrobean]

I was trying chain grabs earlier since I seriously have never even tried.

The only character I could manage it well against was G&W, funny enough. I didn't try against all characters, just G&W then a bunch of randoms, but I still think it's funny that Korny's G&W that has so long been the grail for me might be a bit closer within my reach by using cheap tactics.

[Suicidalfatman]

awww okay..thats intresting to know lol

[korny]

Afro. You're letting online gameplay inflate your ego XD.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by korny

Afro. You're letting online gameplay inflate your ego XD.

Meh, not really. You'd have a better shot at telling me level 9 CPU was inflating my ego, since they're the ones I was practicing chain grabs on. In other words, the idea of me implying chain grabbing level 9 CPU with ease is not the same thing as chain grabbing you.

But I still stand by the fact that online play isn't as bad as you claim. You make it out as though it has constant massive lag, when most of the time lag is minimal, and against the ideal opponents lag is negligible.