Old 08-19-2020, 04:52 PM   #1
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Default Private Queue?

The other day I noticed on the queue page at the bottom there was text that said something along the lines of, "+21 private submissions" but the text is no longer there.

I'm not sure why that text was removed but can someone confirm if a private queue of sorts exists? I was looking at the queue to make sure a file I wanted to step hasn't been accepted already but it's hard to confirm if some of the queue is private.
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Old 08-19-2020, 05:06 PM   #2
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Default Re: Private Queue?

Some batches were private because they pertained to tournament stuff and presumably they wanted to keep some mystery surrounding what could actually be used, but it looks like no batches are currently private, so there shouldn't be anything in the private queue.
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Old 08-19-2020, 05:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: Private Queue?

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Some batches were private because they pertained to tournament stuff and presumably they wanted to keep some mystery surrounding what could actually be used, but it looks like no batches are currently private, so there shouldn't be anything in the private queue.
Ah, okay. So they weren't technically "private" submissions. Just accepted submissions from the 13th official tournament batch that were set aside.

I don't exactly follow why they'd be initially hidden from the main queue when that information is visible here to begin with, but at least the information on accepted files is never truly hidden if that's the case. Thanks for the info!
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Old 08-19-2020, 05:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: Private Queue?

That was from before the Private batch system was introduced. Simply didn't exist back then. Now chart notes will go directly in the batch, so only public notes will be visible.
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Old 08-19-2020, 06:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: Private Queue?

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That was from before the Private batch system was introduced. Simply didn't exist back then. Now chart notes will go directly in the batch, so only public notes will be visible.
He's not asking about where batch notes are posted or what specific aspects of the batch are revealed. He's wondering why some batches are privatized in the first place (where you cannot view any of the submitted songs whatsoever). This seems to be a new thing that was recently introduced and I honestly cannot recall much conversation around this.

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Old 08-19-2020, 06:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: Private Queue?

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He's not asking about where batch notes are posted or what specific aspects of the batch are revealed. He's wondering why some batches are privatized in the first place (where you cannot view any of the submitted songs whatsoever). This seems to be a new thing that was recently introduced and I honestly cannot recall much conversation around this.
I could always be corrected by Kayla when she comes over here, but I believe my understanding of this is correct.

With the introduction of all of these fantastic innovations in the batch submission system, there will no longer be a necessity to have all information contained within threads. To my knowledge, the system allows game management to see the contents of all submissions at any given point. However, the privatization of batches allows for users to see the status of only their files and nothing else. Additionally, I do believe judges are also able to have sets assigned to them within the system too, meaning they only can see what's assigned to them, and nothing beyond that (unless it's relegated to them for some reason). It's essentially an effective implementation of the least responsibility principle.

A likely situation: when the next Official Tournament batch opens, users will not be able to simply glean over the entirety of the submission list either in the batch submission area or (likely nonexistent at this point public threads) to predict where songs are, as ratings are compartmentalized within the batch tool.

It's no longer a batch submission tool at this point, it's an entire suite that is almost entirely self-sustaining, without the utilization of e-mails or the existing system of threads.

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Old 08-19-2020, 06:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: Private Queue?

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I don't exactly follow why they'd be initially hidden from the main queue when that information is visible here to begin with
I was mainly responding to this.
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Old 08-19-2020, 08:19 PM   #8
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Default Re: Private Queue?

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Originally Posted by TC_Halogen View Post
However, the privatization of batches allows for users to see the status of only their files and nothing else.

A likely situation: when the next Official Tournament batch opens, users will not be able to simply glean over the entirety of the submission list either in the batch submission area or (likely nonexistent at this point public threads) to predict where songs are, as ratings are compartmentalized within the batch tool.
It sounds like we won't be able to tell if other files have been accepted or even submitted for some batches, such as an official tournament batch. To make sure I understand this, will the situation be...

A) The public won't know when a specific file is being released (such as the round/division number), but they will know the file has been accepted as a potential tournament file.

or

B) The public won't know when a specific file is being released and if it's even been submitted/accepted at all for the tournament.

If the situation is B, how would someone make sure a file they are stepping for a future batch hasn't been accepted already if it's hidden in a tournament batch? Would we just message a judge and simply ask?
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Old 08-19-2020, 08:47 PM   #9
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Default Re: Private Queue?

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Originally Posted by TC_Halogen View Post
A likely situation: when the next Official Tournament batch opens, users will not be able to simply glean over the entirety of the submission list either in the batch submission area or (likely nonexistent at this point public threads) to predict where songs are, as ratings are compartmentalized within the batch tool.
I suppose I underestimated just how many potential files there could be that would both fit the criteria of 1) having been known or well-known from SM/other 4k games and 2) that we have permission to use for FFR. I thought the ability to not see what was submitted would only be beneficial to these specific situations, which I think is fairly limited. To not be privy to see simply a list of an entire batch is just a big system shock to me; I wonder if it's really necessary save for the few files that everybody knows and keeps talking about. Besides those, no one should be able to know any file for a tournament because they're not supposed to be released to the public in the first place.

edit: I guess this ultimately won't change much of anything on the user's end. I just liked seeing what was submitted and privatizing the list feels a bit uptight.

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Old 08-20-2020, 09:37 AM   #10
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Default Re: Private Queue?

Okay so just going to note a few things here:

1. Yes, there's now a way to make batches private so we can have some element of surprise for certain events.
2. I honestly don't understand why this is being brought as an issue considering NO ONE knew what was being submitted to the emails until a list came out in a thread. So it's really no different.
3. We accept multiple files of the same song, so again really a non issue if you submit something that's already been submitted or accepted.
4. There wasn't even a queue list for anyone to see until I recently asked Velocity to add it, so I'm really not sure you point with "To not be privy to see simply a list of an entire batch is just a big system shock to me" bmah, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.


These changes are extremely exciting and will help us streamline things so much more than they ever have been. Calling it "uptight" is a bit unfair as we used to just privatize submissions all together surrounding the tournament and had internal batches so I mean, there's really no change in terms of that. You guys actually have WAY more info now than ever.
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Old 08-20-2020, 11:04 AM   #11
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Default Re: Private Queue?

Well you did verify one thing and that is answering the question of to what extent batches are privatized (certain events, mainly OTs). I was more concerned that the scope of having batches privatized could be broader, but if this isn’t the case then it’s all good.
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Old 08-20-2020, 07:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: Private Queue?

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Originally Posted by psychoangel691 View Post
2. I honestly don't understand why this is being brought as an issue considering NO ONE knew what was being submitted to the emails until a list came out in a thread. So it's really no different.
Please note, I've been inactive for a very long time. More-so when it comes to stepping files. The system was very different back then, and I happen to get back into this during a significant transition in the batch process.

At the time of the creation of this thread, there was no official explanation of this new batch system so I grasped what I could from stickies and the layout of the system itself. I approached this purely for the sake of making sense of it all and the steps I would have to take for information pertaining to my files and any potential overlap with a private queue.

With that said, it seemed like submitted files ultimately were present in one public location but that wasn't always the case, so I wanted to make sure I was on the same page.
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3. We accept multiple files of the same song, so again really a non issue if you submit something that's already been submitted or accepted.
My concern would be more with having the information before I step the file. If I knew that the file would have to be a V2, I would have to approach it very differently but I'd most likely not bother with it to begin with in that instance. If it's simply asking a judge on a case-by-case basis, "Has this song been accepted?" Then I'm good with that. It'd save a lot of hassle for sure!

The system looks great! When I saw text about private files vanish suddenly without explanation, I simply had to ask about it because I honestly didn't know what was going on. Thank you for the response.

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Old 08-20-2020, 07:47 PM   #13
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Default Re: Private Queue?

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These changes are extremely exciting and will help us streamline things so much more than they ever have been. Calling it "uptight" is a bit unfair as we used to just privatize submissions all together surrounding the tournament and had internal batches so I mean, there's really no change in terms of that. You guys actually have WAY more info now than ever.
You had this issue because there wasn't an announcement about it, and it happened to be found before there was a clarification. It looks shady af to some people.

We've talked about it before, but I personally absolutely loathe this way of doing things.

And it is uptight, it's a fair critique.

Also us having more info than ever isn't "exciting" it's "how it should be."
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Old 08-21-2020, 01:24 AM   #14
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Default Re: Private Queue?

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You had this issue because there wasn't an announcement about it, and it happened to be found before there was a clarification. It looks shady af to some people.

We've talked about it before, but I personally absolutely loathe this way of doing things.

And it is uptight, it's a fair critique.

Also us having more info than ever isn't "exciting" it's "how it should be."
Can I ask you a genuine question? Why are you still here if you hate everything about it? Honestly, you never have anything positive to say at all.
No it's not a fair critique, how are we supposed to have anon stepcons if I can't anonymize the submissions? What's the point in having a new file OT if everyone just knows what's going to be in it? I honestly can't believe this is even an argument, I was so excited for all of these and it's effectively been killed by one thread.
I didn't say having more info is exciting, I said the changes were because it's a massive help. I said it before though and I'll say it again, if you can do such a better job at everything than do it, you rejected being on judgement staff after I offered the position to you, so as far as I'm concerned you really have no room to be this negative when you don't even want to be part of aiding things on FFR.
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Old 08-21-2020, 01:28 AM   #15
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Default Re: Private Queue?

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Originally Posted by HammyMcSquirrel View Post
Please note, I've been inactive for a very long time. More-so when it comes to stepping files. The system was very different back then, and I happen to get back into this during a significant transition in the batch process.

At the time of the creation of this thread, there was no official explanation of this new batch system so I grasped what I could from stickies and the layout of the system itself. I approached this purely for the sake of making sense of it all and the steps I would have to take for information pertaining to my files and any potential overlap with a private queue.

With that said, it seemed like submitted files ultimately were present in one public location but that wasn't always the case, so I wanted to make sure I was on the same page.

My concern would be more with having the information before I step the file. If I knew that the file would have to be a V2, I would have to approach it very differently but I'd most likely not bother with it to begin with in that instance. If it's simply asking a judge on a case-by-case basis, "Has this song been accepted?" Then I'm good with that. It'd save a lot of hassle for sure!

The system looks great! When I saw text about private files vanish suddenly without explanation, I simply had to ask about it because I honestly didn't know what was going on. Thank you for the response.
Apologies, some of it was more directed towards bmah who has been around and active through all of this. Things just got finished up and I hadn't had a chance to make a full announcement yet on anything, but it still kind of stands that even if you look at batches there still could be someone stepping what you're stepping and beat you to getting it in the system. Just the nature of the game, but if you look we have instances of the same song now like Celestial Horizon which are basically same difficulty but both very good charts so one is labeled [another]. Things have changed a lot.
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Old 08-22-2020, 10:14 PM   #16
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Can I ask you a genuine question? Why are you still here if you hate everything about it? Honestly, you never have anything positive to say at all.
No it's not a fair critique, how are we supposed to have anon stepcons if I can't anonymize the submissions? What's the point in having a new file OT if everyone just knows what's going to be in it? I honestly can't believe this is even an argument, I was so excited for all of these and it's effectively been killed by one thread.
I didn't say having more info is exciting, I said the changes were because it's a massive help. I said it before though and I'll say it again, if you can do such a better job at everything than do it, you rejected being on judgement staff after I offered the position to you, so as far as I'm concerned you really have no room to be this negative when you don't even want to be part of aiding things on FFR.
1. I'm vocal about my dislikes, and I do compliment when I feel it's earned it. The things that I dislike, I go harder on because I want change. You don't get that by being quiet.

As for why I'm still here? I dunno. I play the game sometimes, TWG is great. I met a lot of the best people I know on here. I owe FFR a lot.

Not that it matters.

2A. For the stepcon - fair point. But as for the official, just because we can see what songs they are doesn't equate to knowing the content.

2B. As for the OT, you know how against the private batch nature of the official I am. The files should be set in stone through strictly public batches. I know files have passed and been placed into the game without a proper batch - that's what I was getting at. Something that is consistent with the past. Which is why I said in my post that it could look shady to some people - which is at the very least - me.

2C. You're making an argument that I don't think works. You can see a file and still be excited to see where it's placed, what changes got made, ect. You're trying to fix an issue that isn't likely a problem. (I do not wanna speak for the public on this, so I'm leaving room for this point to be a bit moot.)

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you rejected being on judgement staff after I offered the position to you, so as far as I'm concerned you really have no room to be this negative when you don't even want to be part of aiding things on FFR.
Let me correct you.

1. I was never officially offered a spot, I was on the second part of the test - which frankly, I'd bombed because I'd have outright 0 / 10'd the files for having wrong meta data, which completely negates the point of the test, and gives you zero information about my abilities. It would have been a completely moot test. I literally would have failed them and moved on.

2. I can be as harsh a critic as I want? My own ability to do it better be damned. The weight of my critique is tied to my own abilities, if you as the person it's targeted to think it has no value, just move on, or explain to me why you think I'm wrong.

But it's not like I have broken any rules regardless.

3. I do try to aid by being critical. I want things changed. I try to find the time to submit content to the game, I've in the past offered my time to place for the official, I have literally made threads suggesting changes I wanted most.

Let's go over my post though, because I think you interpreted it wrong.

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You had this issue because there wasn't an announcement about it, and it happened to be found before there was a clarification. It looks shady af to some people.

We've talked about it before, but I personally absolutely loathe this way of doing things.

And it is uptight, it's a fair critique.

Also us having more info than ever isn't "exciting" it's "how it should be."
The first part addresses "I honestly don't understand why this is being brought as an issue considering NO ONE knew what was being submitted to the emails until a list came out in a thread. So it's really no different." My take on why that is / with how I'd have interpreted it.

The second part addresses this "we used to just privatize submissions all together surrounding the tournament and had internal batches" Not new knowledge, and is a bit more moot. I hate the internal batches. I think they're arguably unfair to the public, your desire for fresh files for the OT or not.

Third part addresses your response to this "I guess this ultimately won't change much of anything on the user's end. I just liked seeing what was submitted and privatizing the list feels a bit uptight." I disagree with you, and agree with Bmah here.

The last part is to this "You guys actually have WAY more info now than ever." Which you make sound like a good thing, which it's not. The game is entirely formulated on public time, submissions and commitments. The knowledge of behind the scenes should be public.

None of my post is rude, or harsh. None of it is negative (this time) but is personal opinion. Which is part of the discussion. That's just how it works in this forum setting. At the end of the day, ignore me if you want. You seem to think my comments have little / no value, which isn't unreasonable.
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Old 08-23-2020, 05:08 PM   #17
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Default Re: Private Queue?

My desire for fresh files? Lol I only do it because that's what the community wanted. It would be a hell of a lot easier and way less work for me to go back to good ol selecting what's in game.
I have done as much as I've been capable of for this community, many times going against what I feel is correct because it's what the majority wanted. This is a case though where as I mentioned in the other thread I'm standing by it. I got support from others about it and one batch being private for a special event isn't hurting anyone.

I'm not writing out paragraph by paragraph, I'm too tired for it. But the internals were still judged, just not out in the forums.
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