For FFR [10 or 11]

[bmah]

I personally have a hard time deciding for this one. I've always said in other threads that I would determine difficulty by the ability to FC a song without mashing. In that respect, For FFR isn't overly difficult to FC. Even so, the statistics (both scores and age of the file) show otherwise. One thing to note is that the hard part occurs at the very end of the song. It's easy to get not one good, not two goods, but a whole slew of goods or averages, simply because an extremely fast 1324 pattern that's not jumptrillable is very difficult to pull off period.

It certainly would look nice if it turned into an 11 as it'd remove one of my worst 10s. But personal scores aside, it looks like everyone else has the same problems (with the exception of, hmm, bluearrow who apparently finds these patterns very easy to him). The fact that people consistently have the same problems as mentioned above has me leaning over towards the 11 side.

Originally Posted by SK8R43

In my Opinion, For FFR is not an 11. I have 4-1-0-1 on It and did it with One Hand, come on people its really not that hard. I can AAA the ending just about every try but the rest of the file is dumb. Just my 2 cents.

Anecdotal experiences aside, -what- do you find easy in the file? That's the question you have to answer in your post. You need to convince others as to why it should be a 10, and saying that the song wasn't hard for you isn't convincing at all.

@rushy: that's right. (if you're referring to what I said above, that's not a part of my argument...I already mentioned physical aspects of the file)

[rushyrulz]

For the record, "I have 500 FMO AAAs and I can't AAA this one" isn't a valid argument ever.

[lumphoboextreme]

Well I AAA'd on a lucky run but I say it's an 11.

[Zon Fire]

its a 10. the ending is the only "difficult" part. Because jump trilling is not very a practical method for PA'ing it

[rayword45]

I'm torn on this one. The ending prevents me from an SDG which makes this a lot harder for me then most low-end FMOs. However, I could luck out (did so several times on isolation file) and the hard section is very brief.

The only way I justify a hard part bumping a song difficulty is if:

A. It takes up 10% of the files time
B. It's above the rest of the file drastically so that the short section is above the actual rating with everything else below (See: Largiloquent Dithyramb, RunnyMorning)

Is the hard section of For FFR really FGO-worthy though?

[gnr61]

wait this file is currently a VC? lmfao

[rushyrulz]

Originally Posted by rayword45

A. It takes up 10% of the files time

It takes up around 10% of the file's total arrows in a short period of time, definition of a difficulty spike.

Originally Posted by rayword45

B. It's above the rest of the file drastically so that the short section is above the actual rating with everything else below (See: Largiloquent Dithyramb, RunnyMorning)

It is.

Originally Posted by rayword45

Is the hard section of For FFR really FGO-worthy though?

FMO not FGO

[rayword45]

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

FMO not FGO

Then in that case it should be a VC if the hard section is only FMO-worthy.

The jacks in LD and RunnyMorning are definitely FGO-worthy but everything else is high 9/low 10 level.

[leonid]

I vote 11

[rushyrulz]

Originally Posted by rayword45

The jacks in LD and RunnyMorning are definitely FGO-worthy

ummm?

[reuben_tate]

I'm gonna put the subjectivemanias aside and just show some statistical data to show why it should be an FMO.

For FFR
Release Date: 2003
AAA's: 74

Southern Cross
Release Date: 2007
AAA's: 135

Black Key Etude
Release Date: 2009
AAA's: 111

EHHS
Release Date: 2006
AAA's: 148

Originally Posted by gnr61

wait this file is currently a VC? lmfao

I know right? xD

[Winrar]

Oh no it has a harder ending than the rest of the file so it has to be an 11 right? I don't understand why people only judge files if it has ONE difficult part, the entire file is a joke except for the ending which is slow enough to not jumptrill.
Blue notes aren't an excuse to bump it up since there are synth files that are right where they belong.
10.

[i love you]

This is a really tough one to use from because of the inconsistencies of this file. I think really the problem for most people on this file is because of the fact that the notes are blue and not colored. I think if this file was colored then more people would AAA. Also, most of the file is around a 9 but then those rolls/spins in the file have a HUGE difficulty spike for it to be a high 10. I would say just leave it as a 10. Just because the majority of the community have problems with the ending does not mean that it should be changed to a higher difficulty especially when the majority of the file is basically a 9 overall other then the rolls/spins.

[reuben_tate]

Originally Posted by Winrar

Oh no it has a harder ending than the rest of the file so it has to be an 11 right? I don't understand why people only judge files if it has ONE difficult part, the entire file is a joke except for the ending which is slow enough to not jumptrill.
Blue notes aren't an excuse to bump it up since there are synth files that are right where they belong.
10.

Maybe we should move Pandora to an 8 then since it's only difficult at that one part?

[Winrar]

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

Maybe we should move Pandora to an 8 then since it's only difficult at that one part?

When that part of Pandora reaches a spike of 27 NPS (6 off from RATO which is a 13) and happens to be harder than almost every FGO there's an exception.

There are 10s that are harder than For FFR and spike higher than 18 NPS.

[reuben_tate]

NPS is a poor determining factor when looking a file's difficulty. It also depends on the pattern selection at that NPS. For example, jacks at 27 NPS is much more difficult than [12][34] jumptrills at 27 NPS. Also, could you be less vague and name some of these 10's that are harder than For FFR?

[Hakulyte]

I'm sure a ton of top players AAAd FGOs and still had trouble fixing this file because unlike other charts, it's not just about getting your muscle memory down and pulling a no brainer, you need to deal with the awkwardness of the frame mess and since all the arrows are also blue, the file is not guiding you at all into the right direction. Even worse, if you play by sound, you will also mess up because of the lol 24th in the middle of all these rolls that doesn't even follow music. If this file is not a 11, Story of Snowman and Sunshine Girl is a 4 and everyone who ever got a good on it should feel about as ashamed as when they got one on all the other perfectly on-sync difficulty 4 files that flows perfectly. Oh wait- SSSG is a 4..

.-.

tldr;

List of overlooked reasons of why it's hard enough to move to 11:

- Frame mess.
- Blue notes only.
- Brutal ending that cannot be jumptrilled.
- Less than 75 AAAs and the file is out since 2003.

I don't even see a reason to not judge a file by the ability to AAA it. If 90% of the file is easy and 10% of it is completely insane, you will need the skills to nail that 10%. The 90% remaining is not going to have an impact of how hard the file truly is. >:

This file would easily turn back into a 10 if they updated the sync and added colors or helped somehow players to find a way to demystify it's difficulty, but right now it's most likely a 11.

[rayword45]

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

ummm?

I was merely proving a point. The hard parts of those 2 songs are FGO but the rest is 9/10, which is why they stay at FMO.

Contrastly, For FFR stays low 9-level (below Tension) for almost all the time, has a brief 32nd roll, and a hard ending. But those 2 parts are very brief and don't seem to spike above FMO-level for more then 7 seconds, which would make it VC.

I'll say For FFR is an 11 if TTE is a 12 though.

[CammyGoesRawr]

In all honesty, i believe that yes, the ending is straight FMO worthy, but the rest of the file is very low VC, even sitting at a high 9 for most parts. The patterns are simple and speed doesnt become an issue except for the 24th roll at the 150 combo point, and the ending. One difficulty spike that lasts about 5 seconds shouldn't constitute a difficulty bump.

tl;dr = 10

[Arbliterator]

Originally Posted by Winrar

Oh no it has a harder ending than the rest of the file so it has to be an 11 right? I don't understand why people only judge files if it has ONE difficult part, the entire file is a joke except for the ending which is slow enough to not jumptrill.
Blue notes aren't an excuse to bump it up since there are synth files that are right where they belong.
10.

Originally Posted by i love you

This is a really tough one to use from because of the inconsistencies of this file. I think really the problem for most people on this file is because of the fact that the notes are blue and not colored. I think if this file was colored then more people would AAA. Also, most of the file is around a 9 but then those rolls/spins in the file have a HUGE difficulty spike for it to be a high 10. I would say just leave it as a 10. Just because the majority of the community have problems with the ending does not mean that it should be changed to a higher difficulty especially when the majority of the file is basically a 9 overall other then the rolls/spins.

Originally Posted by CammyGoesRawr

In all honesty, i believe that yes, the ending is straight FMO worthy, but the rest of the file is very low VC, even sitting at a high 9 for most parts. The patterns are simple and speed doesnt become an issue except for the 24th roll at the 150 combo point, and the ending. One difficulty spike that lasts about 5 seconds shouldn't constitute a difficulty bump.

tl;dr = 10

Same as my thoughts, if it were far longer then I'd say 11 would be appropriate but not for this. +1 for keeping it at 10.