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View Poll Results: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?
Yes 24 41.38%
No 34 58.62%
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Old 06-7-2020, 01:34 AM   #1
Andrew WCY
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Default Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

I've started a poll on Discord, but I'm also starting one here to collect more players' opinions on the subject matter.

The motivation behind this poll are the forum threads and Discord comments from players unsure what they should do to play certain legacy songs in the game. Currently, the 'Display Legacy Songs' box is unchecked by default, and we have an appreciable number of players who have this issue. By leaving the box checked, this issue would be resolved.

Should legacy songs be displayed by default? Why or why not?

Last edited by Andrew WCY; 06-7-2020 at 01:41 AM..
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Old 06-7-2020, 02:19 AM   #2
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Default Re: Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

A lot of the legacy songs are easy difficulty, and thats the difficulty that most new people are exposed to. I agree there should be a more obvious way to find legacy songs but people who choose an easy song and pick a legacy one and find that it's not made to a very modern standard might be put off by FFR as a whole
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Old 06-7-2020, 03:13 AM   #3
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Default Re: Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolth mannn View Post
A lot of the legacy songs are easy difficulty, and thats the difficulty that most new people are exposed to. I agree there should be a more obvious way to find legacy songs but people who choose an easy song and pick a legacy one and find that it's not made to a very modern standard might be put off by FFR as a whole
Basically the understanding that got legacy songs put under the radar to begin with. Wanted to modernize the game feel and not subjugate newer players to some of the off-sync stuff of which the game grew up on. They're still freely available for players, but majority of the reason for them being the way they are now, is to help brand new players.
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Old 06-7-2020, 04:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

As long as legacy songs are still included in public ranks, I think they should be displayed by default. If it's going to continue being treated as optional from a visual standpoint, then the discussion should shift to whether or not they are included as public ranks.
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Old 06-7-2020, 04:54 AM   #5
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Default Re: Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

I say no because new players will be like "wtf is this garbage". I feel like the option should be less hidden tho.
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Old 06-7-2020, 08:53 AM   #6
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Default Re: Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

Voted no. First impressions are important and it isn't the hardest thing in the world to check a box if you're serious about level ranks and AAAs to play the old stuff.
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Old 06-7-2020, 09:47 AM   #7
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Default Re: Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

Voted no for similar reasons to already mentioned reasons. I do agree though - making it more obvious/accessible for re-enabling or accessing them intentionally is a must.

One thing I thought about was that perhaps it would be beneficial to either
a) Include Legacy songs in search results regardless of the checkbox if searching by name, or
b) Throw a checkbox under the search bar & criteria picker that says "Include Legacy songs" or something similar (can even include a tooltip question mark next to the word Legacy with a brief tooltip explanation on what legacy songs are). This would allow people to easily see that there are files being excluded from their search, and why. Could be checked/unchecked by default based on whether or not legacy songs are hidden, but overridden on a search-by-search basis too.
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Old 06-7-2020, 10:22 AM   #8
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Default Re: Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

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Originally Posted by CammyGoesRawr View Post
As long as legacy songs are still included in public ranks, I think they should be displayed by default. If it's going to continue being treated as optional from a visual standpoint, then the discussion should shift to whether or not they are included as public ranks.
Don't forget that average rank is not a thing most people are going to go after, as it's much more a testament of patience than proper skill. We have a system now which is a weighted average of your highest AAA equivalencies that is far more useful, and never requires you to ever touch a legacy song to get it as high as you can.

Regardless if we are to entertain average rank as something that is a big deal, realistically no, they shouldn't be a part of it. Average rank in a rhythm game shouldn't be a slog with hundreds of objectively off-sync ghost note junk, it's just a bad design. It's also worse as these would basically be the heaviest weighted ranks on your profile by a significant margin (rank 100k+), meaning you really cannot ignore them. I'd basically want to treat legacy files similar to alt engine files to be frank, though allowing them to have their leaderboard entry pages would be fine if they don't count to average rank.

-
And yeah, a no vote to keep the newer players from having to stumble upon those files. They would be the most prone to trying them as many are rated extremely easy, it is not a good look for FFR at all to display those with everything else.
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Old 06-7-2020, 10:34 AM   #9
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Default Re: Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

No, as that would counteract the whole reason this was implemented in the first place, mentioned a handful of times already by others in this thread.
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Old 06-7-2020, 11:24 AM   #10
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Default Re: Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin_ator View Post
Voted no for similar reasons to already mentioned reasons. I do agree though - making it more obvious/accessible for re-enabling or accessing them intentionally is a must.

One thing I thought about was that perhaps it would be beneficial to either
a) Include Legacy songs in search results regardless of the checkbox if searching by name, or
b) Throw a checkbox under the search bar & criteria picker that says "Include Legacy songs" or something similar (can even include a tooltip question mark next to the word Legacy with a brief tooltip explanation on what legacy songs are). This would allow people to easily see that there are files being excluded from their search, and why. Could be checked/unchecked by default based on whether or not legacy songs are hidden, but overridden on a search-by-search basis too.
either one of these would fix the problem I have with them currently not being displayed
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Old 06-7-2020, 02:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

Big agree with justin_ator. In particular I like the sound of the second option because it's very explicit about its purpose and very hard to miss. It gives new players the understanding that those files are not representative of the quality of the game while still not actively hiding them from players returning after a hiatus who just wanna play Beethoven Virus (as the current system does).
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Old 06-7-2020, 04:48 PM   #12
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Default Re: Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CammyGoesRawr View Post
As long as legacy songs are still included in public ranks, I think they should be displayed by default. If it's going to continue being treated as optional from a visual standpoint, then the discussion should shift to whether or not they are included as public ranks.

THIS

THIS

A THOUSAND FUCKING TIMES THIS


It's absolutely asinine that these files are so bad that we're gonna hide them from public view, in such a way that old users come back and go "hay guize what happened to zorlda with yoshi bonus round??" all the damn time, but we still count them in public levelranks.
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Old 06-7-2020, 04:50 PM   #13
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Default Re: Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

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Originally Posted by foxfire667 View Post
Average rank in a rhythm game shouldn't be a slog with hundreds of objectively off-sync ghost note junk, it's just a bad design.
Also this, but in reality I've made it clear I actually don't care about average rank that much. My concern is for the achievement tokens for which the requirements have become EXPONENTIALLY more difficult than when they came out over a decade ago at this point, and only continue to get harder. Frankly, with or without legacy files being hidden/counting towards any sort of ranking, these shits need to change.
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Old 06-8-2020, 07:07 AM   #14
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Default Re: Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

Yes. Nothing is wrong with them. They are playable and pretty easy once you figure them out. I aaad just about all of them as a newer player.
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Old 06-11-2020, 09:38 PM   #15
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Default Re: Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

As a new player, I find this discussion misses one huge problem about legacy songs: that they are used in requirements to unlock non-legacy songs.

If legacy songs are hidden because they do not meet modern standards, then only non-legacy songs should be used in requirements to unlock other non-legacy songs.
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Old 06-12-2020, 12:21 AM   #16
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Default Re: Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

Quote:
Originally Posted by springyboard View Post
As a new player, I find this discussion misses one huge problem about legacy songs: that they are used in requirements to unlock non-legacy songs.

If legacy songs are hidden because they do not meet modern standards, then only non-legacy songs should be used in requirements to unlock other non-legacy songs.
That's a fair point - it's something that I would argue needs to change as well.
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Old 06-12-2020, 11:47 AM   #17
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Default Re: Poll: Should legacy songs be displayed by default?

Maybe make a alert before the legacy song is played, until the player goes on to the settings to turn the alert off themselves? Or some sort of message beside the (L) tag like adding a (?) beside, so when the player point to it, a message will appear.

Because when I first came to play, I got problems finding an old song in ffr too, and later notice they are off by default

Something like "This is a legacy song and no longer meets the current standard, which means they can be off sync or off rhythm. But if it's a song unlock requirement, then you can go ahead."

Last edited by LvsL; 06-12-2020 at 11:48 AM..
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