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View Poll Results: Should D8 exist?
Yes 49 76.56%
No 15 23.44%
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Old 08-4-2019, 12:16 PM   #61
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Default Re: 12th Official Tournament

while this convo is good to have, i don't think it's one that should serve to alter the structure of this tournament. the staff's already strapped for time and resources, and reformatting the ot less than a week before it starts requires a lot of changes.

with that said, i'm still down to help with whatever psychoangel
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Old 08-4-2019, 12:17 PM   #62
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Default Re: 12th Official Tournament

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IMO getting eliminated (elimination style) and being hopelessly low in the standings (cumulative style) is the same feeling, no matter the format.
Yeah, I agree, but I wasn't talking about people who are at the bottom of the divisions - making a system that works for them would completely wreck the competitive element of the tournament as a whole. But I do think that there's a certain rush with trying to reach a cutoff, with *just* making a cutoff, with anxiously hanging around at 32nd or 16th at the end of the week praying that someone doesn't snipe you. For me, that's taken away a bit if the imperfections in your scores will follow you regardless. There's more suspense, and at the beginning of each round you feel like you're on a clean slate - players who haven't performed as well are still able to reach or surpass their competitors, and players who have swept through each round can't let up at all.

...also not to be a snob but it takes like a couple minutes to get good enough to pass 2s, and maybe two weeks at most to become competent at 10s lol

Also which D6ers have AAA'd a 94?
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Old 08-4-2019, 12:34 PM   #63
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Default Re: 12th Official Tournament

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Comparing D7 to D1 is the most laughable thing I have ever read on FFR
This. Skater please read the arguments before posting
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Old 08-4-2019, 12:54 PM   #64
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Default Re: 12th Official Tournament

There is a far bigger difference between low d7 and top players than there is between d1 and low d7. I'd prefer divisions entirely not existing, but if goal is to be fair and give people a better chance of winning then d7 is far too large.
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Old 08-4-2019, 01:06 PM   #65
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Default Re: 12th Official Tournament

Here's a nice challenge Sk8r:

Find a D1 player whose ratio of LevelsGained/TimePlayed is close to any D6-7 of your choice. ��

Hint: nobody except Jake rofl

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Old 08-4-2019, 01:10 PM   #66
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Default Re: 12th Official Tournament

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So basically what you guys are saying is each division should have players around the same skill? Just because low D7 can't compete with high D7 doesn't mean anything more than every other division. D1 has people who can barely pass level 2s and people aaaing 10s. D6 has level like 82s versus people aaaing like 94s lmao.
The system makes no sense. We don't need another division unless the other ones are getting worked on as well.
You cannot compare D1 to D7. D1 has a hell of a lot of room for improvement and has been proven time and time again to accelerate people in their improvement. pmonibuv went from D1 to D5 over the course of one tournament. D7 there's a point where people are just not physically capable anymore of keeping up with some of the stuff now a days.

Different note for those mentioning cumulative:
The reason I bring up cumulative for D8 is because the files are so close in difficulty to one another yet push different skillsets. So someone may screw up round 1 but make it up in round 2 merely because it played better to their strengths and with so few people it made more sense to me to keep them competing against one another throughout rather than dropping off one by one.

Edit: Someone said something about extending prizes down further in D7, if we're going to do that we may as well have the D8 and find some kind of good exclusive for them.

Last edited by psychoangel691; 08-4-2019 at 01:12 PM..
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Old 08-4-2019, 01:25 PM   #67
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Default Re: 12th Official Tournament

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You cannot compare D1 to D7. D1 has a hell of a lot of room for improvement and has been proven time and time again to accelerate people in their improvement. pmonibuv went from D1 to D5 over the course of one tournament. D7 there's a point where people are just not physically capable anymore of keeping up with some of the stuff now a days.

Different note for those mentioning cumulative:
The reason I bring up cumulative for D8 is because the files are so close in difficulty to one another yet push different skillsets. So someone may screw up round 1 but make it up in round 2 merely because it played better to their strengths and with so few people it made more sense to me to keep them competing against one another throughout rather than dropping off one by one.

Edit: Someone said something about extending prizes down further in D7, if we're going to do that we may as well have the D8 and find some kind of good exclusive for them.
This still makes no sense. Ive been level 87 for like 5 years now and never get physically any better. How is it any different than a D7 player not getting any better?

I just think its pretty unfair to make a whole new division out of nowhere JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE AAAD RATO... How long did it take to finally push to make D7? Compared to making D8 out of nowhere. Dossar has been "D8" for years and nothing has changed. Why now?


EDIT: Also, how is AJ D8 but OWA isnt? LOLOL
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Old 08-4-2019, 01:26 PM   #68
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Default Re: 12th Official Tournament

I think I wouldn't mind cumulative for D8 but:
a) It doesn't affect me
b) There just aren't enough people to run elimination at the moment

For everyone else, I'm vehemently against cumulative scoring for most of the reasons Mike posted in his first paragraph. It also punishes players for not getting AAAs on all of the early files making it even harder to catch up to the top contenders. If you don't have super competitive scores on the early rounds and they get locked in you're kind of just stuck in a hopeless hole for weeks later on which probably feels worse than actually getting eliminated in due time.

The only option I could think of to make that less punishing is to leave the previous rounds open for improvement, but logistically that's not great for a tournament setting and as mentioned earlier makes it more of a league, and even with that change I would still be against cumulative.
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Old 08-4-2019, 01:45 PM   #69
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Default Re: 12th Official Tournament

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Originally Posted by SK8R43 View Post
This still makes no sense. Ive been level 87 for like 5 years now and never get physically any better. How is it any different than a D7 player not getting any better?

I just think its pretty unfair to make a whole new division out of nowhere JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE AAAD RATO... How long did it take to finally push to make D7? Compared to making D8 out of nowhere. Dossar has been "D8" for years and nothing has changed. Why now?


EDIT: Also, how is AJ D8 but OWA isnt? LOLOL
So basically you're mad because it doesn't help you? Got it. There is a huge difference and I'm not going to spend a ton of time trying to spell it out when I've got shit to do.

You've been level 87 for 5 years, and what all have you tried to improve it? Can you honestly claim you've done everything within your power to improve and put in all those hours of practice to actually say "I physically can't"

It's not just because someone AAAd RATO, it's been asked about for years now. Also, do you really not remember how D7 was made? Lmao, I'm the one responsible for that as well.

Go read back in the thread to answer your last question. At that point, you're just being antagonistic.
I don't even have to be doing this tournament period and people want to crap on me no matter what decision I make. I've been trying to be pretty mellow about all of it but I'm starting to get fed up. You have something constructive to say, fine. But acting butthurt because you've been stuck in one place for x amount of time isn't the deciding factor here. Come up with a legitimate argument against it and I'll listen.
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Old 08-4-2019, 01:49 PM   #70
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Default D8 Deb8

Voice your opinions here, please keep it out of the tournament thread.
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Old 08-4-2019, 01:50 PM   #71
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Default Re: 12th Official Tournament

Quote:
You've been level 87 for 5 years, and what all have you tried to improve it? Can you honestly claim you've done everything within your power to improve and put in all those hours of practice to actually say "I physically can't"
I was like, level 27 for years and years, I insisted (As Kayla can attest) for MULTIPLE years worth of OTs that even the level 27 was not obtainable for me anymore, that I was a hardstuck D1 player who should be in D1 even though I used to be D2.

I was so positive I was D1 that I had all my scores wiped and started over, just to prove I was actually a D1 player.

Except whoops, turns out, getting involved in the TCG challenges, and taking some advice from other people about songs to play and ways to improve, I'm up to 32 now, higher than the "peak" from 9 years ago I was sure I could never meet.

And yes, these are small numbers compared to D5, but like...maybe consider that "I'm stuck at this level forever" is more to do with mentality than physicality.
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Old 08-4-2019, 01:50 PM   #72
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Default Re: 12th Official Tournament

Take the D8 debate here please - http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...d.php?t=151134
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Old 08-4-2019, 01:50 PM   #73
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Default Re: 12th Official Tournament

Can we just stop with the bickering and enjoy the tournament?
It's already hard enough with under 300 members, and doing last minute efforts to get new files in, let's not make this harder than it should be, k?
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Old 08-4-2019, 01:51 PM   #74
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Default Re: D8 Debate

why isn't this thread called "D8 deb8"
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Old 08-4-2019, 01:52 PM   #75
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Default Re: D8 Debate

or the D8 Db8 :P
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what the fuck marcus lmao

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Old 08-4-2019, 01:53 PM   #76
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Default Re: D8 Debate

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why isn't this thread called "D8 deb8"
Fix'd

Edit: Well shit, now I don't know which to choose.

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Old 08-4-2019, 01:58 PM   #77
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Default Re: D8 Deb8

story of snowman and sillyfangirl
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Old 08-4-2019, 01:59 PM   #78
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Default Re: D8 Deb8

I say yes only if they have different files and that implies that the staff must be confudent that we wont lack too many files in the future.
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Old 08-4-2019, 02:02 PM   #79
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Default Re: D8 Deb8

Here's the thing. I don't want to see the same three people in the top 3 for D7.
It makes the rest of the division have to competition or drive to get a decent placement.
The ceiling for the top level is so high we might as well separate in low, mid, and high D7.

And I don't want to hear arguments on "we don't have enough files for D8" either, since we're guaranteed to have all new files on the high end for the tournament.
And we can always open a 100+ Hard Songs Batch post-tournament.

So yes. No question in my mind we should have a D8.
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Old 08-4-2019, 02:08 PM   #80
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Default Re: D8 Deb8

Bottom line, I think there should be a D8.

Should there be D8 during this tournament? No.

As someone has mentioned, We can look over tournament results to get a good grasp on where the split for D7 & D8 lies. There has been more or less always a split in high D7 or low D7, across multiple tournaments, so it's literally no different from the past 3 officials.

If we want to expand the song choice to provide content for D8 players, we can do that after the tournament and have it ready for the next tournament.
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