Trickster: The game

[Tonberry_Kid]

I level 4 times Monday, and I'm 72% from 38, hoping to be 40 tonight :3.

[Squeek]

113.

I don't even do anything anymore because I know leveling fast isn't going to get me anywhere without a new sword =/

I'm happy to have my 110 sharp sword but 120 is just around the corner and I don't have it because it's not out. 130 is apparently out. 140 has been out for a long time.

Just found out the 120 pet is hard to make. Even when the map / monster is released, it's level 520. Yeah. It's not a boss either. It's a freakin' dinosaur.

If there's one thing I hate about this game, that's it. Great idea to make the level 120 pet Synthesizable ONLY and have the parts and pieces comes from an enemy 400 levels higher than the requirement for the pet.

I swear though, once that map comes out, I'm just gonna get a group of friends and tank that thing. Then we can each get a pet. Just like how Bandit is still trying to get that helmet thing in Maple.

Oh, also, I need confirmation on this because I've heard conflicting reports. Does the elemental damage from compounding a sword add on to your damage or does it merely take a percentage of the attack of the sword and apply that elementally?

I've heard some people say elemental compounds are only useful if you're fighting enemies weak to that element, and others say any percent is good because it's like multiplying your AP by a lot more.

Edit: It seems most people say it only does more damage if the enemy you're fighting is weak to it. I guess that makes sense. All the more reason for me not to care. I very rarely fight element-only enemies, and even if I do, there are 7 elements, and they cost a lot to compound. It also means that matching up elements to the monster you're fighting isn't always going to work since each Craft sword takes a different element.

Looks like Sharp stuff is the best after all =)

[evilbutterfly]

Originally Posted by Squeek

I hate ______ about Trickster

What I hate about Trickster is that the leveling is not tedious at all, but EVERY OTHER ****ING THING IS. Getting and maxing skills is a pain, getting new equips is a pain, upgrading equips is a pain, EVERYTHING IS A PAIN (except leveling). Seriously, I'd rather have leveling be a pain (and thus mean a hell of a lot more) and have more simplistic upgrading/weapon systems than have Trickster's overly complicated crap.

Plus, it's not an action-RPG, it's more traditional. Booooooooooo!!

[Squeek]

Oh.

Cuz you know. Getting 7 60% staff scrolls on your own. That's totally easy.

For each staff too. Not hard at all. Nor is finding the staff.

In trickster, I take a drill to a mine shaft and come back with enough ores to make two +2 swords. It takes me about twenty minutes to get all of the ores I need. That's how I upgrade weapons. In fact, when I went to the mines at level 80 with two drills, I came back with 60 of each ore (71-90, 91-110, 111-130 refining ores) and never had to go back. I have enough ores to upgrade all of my swords until level 130. It took me about an hour total to get all of those ores and I never have to go back.

To get the weapons is just as easy. Monsters drop equipment often, and they only drop one of two things, sometimes only one. Each equip they drop has a "normal" and a "special" variance. Either it's a normal one, or a prefixed (sharp, chance, etc) item. Odds of getting either one are the same. I mean, when I went to get Eyo that gift I got him (Chance Stone Staff (level 100 luck staff)), the enemies were hard, sure, but I was there for 10-20 minutes and, after getting about six other equips (hats and normal stone staves), I got the Chance Stone and left.

Also, everything of the same level requirement has the same damage. There is no range. All swords of a certain level are the same AP. All staves of a certain level are the same MA.

Not like Maple where you kill three hundred thousand low-spawning Werewolves with insane attack and defense just to find a crappy MA Evil Wings. If you find one at all.

What were you saying about this being hard?

[evilbutterfly]

Maybe it's because the game sucks at explaining what the **** is going on. They act like everything you learn in the tutorial is everything you'll do in the game, but there are HUGE MAJOR THINGS they don't explain. Hell, they don't even really explain how to get skills.

And seriously, needing items to max skills? **** that.

My main beef is that it's not actiony. **** click-and-wait RPGs.

[Squeek]

I don't like the lack of action either, which is why I put anime in a window on the top right and move the game to the bottom right. <3 non-fullscreen.

The NPCs explain the entire process of refining / compounding. I do believe the NPCs in MapleStory do not explain scrolling, am I right? They don't tell you where to get scrolls (oshi the refiner tells you where to dig up minerals). Even if they did, it's one of like thirty drops from the enemy, and they never drop that scroll.

With the exception of one or two skills per class, the items needed are pretty darn easy to get. The exception I know about offhand was the stupid Selinolite mages needed to max their most important buff that adds damage to their attacks. So far, I've needed:

7 cards from a level 15 enemy. (Power Blow)
37 drops from a level 51 enemy. (Sturdy Shield)
38 drops from a level 54 enemy. (Titanium Wrist)
23 drops from a level 57 enemy. (Physical Training)

If I want to master the two skills I'm holding off on so far, I need:

35 drops from a level 20 enemy. (Dodge Master)
20 drops from a level 69 enemy. (Skunk Pouch)

Thankfully in the first job, none of these are hard or require digging. The worst one was the first one, and that's because it's an attacking skill. Good thing those enemies drop cards often.

The worst is going to be 2nd job. 18 cards from the level 54 enemy I needed for Titanium. 18. The second one is a drop from a level 142 enemy. The skill requires TM 125, and I already kill that enemy with ease. I'm not even close to TM 125.

[Eyoshi]

I've been in sort of a limbo while playing after reaching level 100, so I just went and killed time in various maps.

Went to Bio Junks and got a level 130 sword for Squeek, even though the monsters that drop the level 120 one will probably be released soon in the next patch.

I WANT SECOND JOB WAAAAAAAHHHH

[Squeek]

Wha, really? The 130 sharp sword? Freakin' sweet =)

I can refine it now just so we're all set for 130.

If the next patch is 2nd job AND the Vamp Castle, then I can get the 120 sword. Otherwise it's just not happening. If it's just 2nd job, I'll use the sharp long sword until 130 and just skip the 120 sword or something. If it's just the castle, I'll try, but those things are harder than Bio Junk =x

Anyway, in the meantime, I'm playing on LongCat because my friend has some interest in it but wants to get the Event TM quests done. He's almost 61 so I'm hoping I can finish by the time the patch that removes the event is released.

[ckj846]

The thing I didn't like about trickster was that it was even more boring then maple. At least in maple, you move your character, jump around, and it was very simple. Complexity does not make the game fun, and I hate it when people say LOL ITS MORE COMPLEX LOOK AT THE LEVEL SYSTEM IT ROXXORZ. LOOK AT THE REFINING SYSTEM, ITS A PAIN IN THE ASS BUT ITS COMPLEX SO LETS GO!!!!!!!!!!!! The thing about trickster is that it takes forever to figure out what the hell you are doing and then oncwe you figure it out, another thing is flung at you. Trickster didn't have anythign to look forward to just because you level SO FAST that there really isn't a point in getting new equips. The thing I like about maple is the fact that you feel accomplished when you get new clothes (unless you cs... rich people lol) and you can see a HUGE difference when you get a new weapon. Scrolling is simple and somewhat exciting, and it is easier to deal with the market in maple then in trickster. Also, the trickster community was very dull and boring to me; it was all the high leveled people from maple who just train train train and who dont' really care to socialize that much. Maple is the exact opposite with jackasses running around ruining the game, but at least you can ignore them and just hang with your friends. The lack of interesting people AND things to do in trickster makes it not so great for me and that is just how it is.
O_o

[Eyoshi]

Originally Posted by ckj846

The thing I didn't like about trickster was that it was even more boring then maple. At least in maple, you move your character, jump around, and it was very simple. Complexity does not make the game fun, and I hate it when people say LOL ITS MORE COMPLEX LOOK AT THE LEVEL SYSTEM IT ROXXORZ. LOOK AT THE REFINING SYSTEM, ITS A PAIN IN THE ASS BUT ITS COMPLEX SO LETS GO!!!!!!!!!!!! The thing about trickster is that it takes forever to figure out what the hell you are doing and then oncwe you figure it out, another thing is flung at you. Trickster didn't have anythign to look forward to just because you level SO FAST that there really isn't a point in getting new equips. The thing I like about maple is the fact that you feel accomplished when you get new clothes (unless you cs... rich people lol) and you can see a HUGE difference when you get a new weapon. Scrolling is simple and somewhat exciting, and it is easier to deal with the market in maple then in trickster. Also, the trickster community was very dull and boring to me; it was all the high leveled people from maple who just train train train and who dont' really care to socialize that much. Maple is the exact opposite with jackasses running around ruining the game, but at least you can ignore them and just hang with your friends. The lack of interesting people AND things to do in trickster makes it not so great for me and that is just how it is.
O_o

I'd have to disagree. Trickster is still easy to get into. The movement is pretty simple. Point, and go. Point on an enemy and attack. I don't see much difference between movement in Maple and movement in Trickster, as neither of them require any sort of repulsive procedure to move a step or two.
Trickster isn't very complex, either. I had an easier time settling into this game than Maple, such as learning the best way to level, or managing my assets.
Even though Maple Story and Trickster have similar stat-building systems (add to one trait ONLY), Trickster allows more flexibility. In Maple, stats were very rigid. There're only a few ways to build up skills for a long portion of the game, as some are complete crap *cough* Energy Bolt *cough*. In Trickster, each skill has at least some sort of importance. Mana Arrow is necessary if you wanted to be a Dark mage, and Mana Ring is important for Light mages. Even Rust, a skill nobody considered getting in the beginning of them game, recieved praise later from its potency against monsters with strong attack power.
In Trickster, you have a lot to look foward to even though you'd level at such a high speed. Aside from new equips, you'd also look foward to the unlocked monster quests and the ability to go into even more dangerous areas. And in cases such as Squeek's, new weapons make a big difference whenever he advances to a new Sharp weapon. When he refines it, he gets an even bigger boost.
Refining is pretty easy to understand. As you refine your weapon more and more, the strength will increase while the probably of scucess the next time you refine it gets smaller and smaller. Prety easy to understand in my opinion.
The market is a lot easier to deal with in Trickster instead of Maple. The prices are not very stable because Trickster is still in beta stage, but even so, prices are starting to settle into a range. The addition of personal shops as a free function is very nice, too, as this allows the market areas to be free of constant floods of people screaming about how they're selling x-items for y-prices.
And I've joined many parties in which talk was frequent. The last few I've joined had a lot of conversation going on in the chat window, and it wasn't just about leveling or stats. Life-related discussion and the occasional randomness made up a large part of the talking. Aside from that, I rarely had to deal with stupid people flaming or acting out of pure elitism. And there's a lack of beggars. Huge plus.

[ckj846]

Then maybe the community has changed since I last played? I didn't like the chat either... The chat room sucked because it got in the way, but also the mini chat got flooded with YOU GAINED THIS MUCH GELDAR that it was nearly impossible to follow a conversation. The point and click concept is simple, yes, but using skills was a pain because I would have to constantly mash the f2 key to make sure I was using the right skill. I don't know how many times my stupid mage would run up and smack the enemy, miss, then get killed. The people on there were not nice to me at all, and maybe those jackasses have been flooded out but the people on there were extremely dull and boring. I'd go, sup =D and they would just keep on training... just like in maple. However, maple is a lot more fun, in my opinion, just because there is more to do and also a lot more to look forward to. 4th job? Zakum? Papu? Pianus? Sure, you don't get very strong after every level up, but every level actually has meaning since it takes so long to get there. Maple is repetitive sometimes, but it isn't as much as trickster. Point. Click. Wait. Point. Click. Wait. Point. Click. Wait. In maple, you dodge, jump, climb ropes, use different skills, and so on. Trickster does not take skill and it doesn't seem to have a single challenge at all (I killed a level 12x monster at level 30 o_o). At least in maple there are challenging monsters to fight all the time, and whenever you want pretty much. Also, the variety in classes weren't that great in trickster. Sure, 2nd job isn't out yet, but there are only 4 classes, ignoring the male female thing. I don't care if you are like BUT THEY ARE DIFFERENT IN 2ND JOB. Is it out yet? No. Will I be inspired to get to 2nd job? Hell no. Trickster just isn't for me and I guess that's my point.
O_o

[Squeek]

Ok, let's go through this.

1) The galder in the chat box is still there. I keep it at three lines and I can still read everything that comes my way.

2) I've played a mage for several hours. I never once did a physical strike when I intended to cast magic. You press the skill button, use it to click and move around, then click on the enemy. Done.

3) I dunno. If you were to walk into your high school and just stop some random person while they were walking and go "sup!", what do you think they would do? Maybe half of the people would reply back and wonder why you were talking to them. The other half would ignore you.

4) 4th job is still in testing in kMS's test server. All they have is one skill right now. And you know what, you've never played a Cleric / Priest for 90 levels. I had NOTHING to look forward to. I guess it's my fault for thinking I could actually kill things. After all that time I put into the game, I'm just burned out and totally unwilling to level another Scanian character amidst all the hacking, botting, KSing, and general annoyances of grinding.

5) The gameplay of Maple is all it had going for it. I loved the 2-D realtime full control battles. That was awesome. It's a shame that I grew tired of it when I had to realtime full control battle tens of thousands of monsters for 20 hours to level up a single time, then repeat it again and again.

6) Maybe you're "point, click, wait"ing. I'm certainly not. I click on the target, let my character run to it and hit F3. After my power attack goes off, it has one more hit to take. Then I move on. I kill each enemy in about a second. No waiting. Much better than holding down spacebar in a group of death teddies for a minute or two until they die.

Maple: Invincible, Bless, Holy Symbol, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Holy Symbol, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal, Heal = 1%

You get the idea.

Trickster: Power Blow, regular swing. Power Blow, regular swing. Power Blow, regular swing. I killed three enemies. That's 1%

7) With potions and mages, you can kill anything you can hit. All range types in this game are incredibly cheap and I hate them. The good thing is that if that level 12x monster actually hit you once, you would have died instantaneously. I would have died at level 30 instantly even as a Charm type. I know mages who can solo things double their level at 110+. I most certainly can't...yet.

8) I don't have anything here, I just wanted to put in this number.

9) Ok, so we have a warrior, a ranged defensive tank, a magician, and a gunner / dagger type. Four classes total. Wait a minute. So does Maple Story... Mage, Warrior, Archer, Thief! All three warriors are practically the same, so group them together. Mages are all the same aside from their elements, so put them together. Archers are pretty much the exact same thing except for what they hold, so put them together. Assassins throw, bandits stab. Well, what do you know. Lions shoot, foxes stab or throw. This is amazing. THEY ARE EQUAL.

For the first job, you have 4 maple types vs 8 Trickster types. And you cannot ignore the gender thing. Foxes aren't gunners, and lions aren't projectile throwers. I'll give you Charm, Power, and Magic for the initial jobs.

Now we have our job advance. Buffaloes are mob type, Bunnies are solo-enemy attackers. Dragons are light or dark magic, Sheep are elemental in any arrangement they want (soil, fire, lightning, water, wind: choose 3). Lions are gunmen, Foxes are dagger / projectile throwers. Cats are offensive, Raccoons are defensive.

Maple has 13 classes. Thirteen is more than 8. So we're one for one with our win/loss ratio.

Now we go to the third job. This is where crazy things happen. You can choose to advance further, or take the counterpart skill path. So, as a Raccoon, I can advance to Magician (stage magician, not magical magician) and then become an Idol and get all of those skills, or I can go to the next level of Magician. That makes 16 class choices. 16 is more than 13.

THEN 4TH. 2 more splits per character, making 32 choices. 32 is more than 13.

Oh, and just so you know, this event that is in right now is going to end on Tuesday and that will be the next patch, which is rumored to be our job advance. kthx.

So Trickster isn't for you? That's fine by me. Just don't try to prove to me that Maple is better than Trickster. We're never going to convince each other that we're right, so it's better to just kill this debate all together before we get even larger walls of text.

[evilbutterfly]

4th job is still in testing in kMS's test server. All they have is one skill right now.

Shows what you know. :P

But I'd just like to say this, not because I'm saying one game is better or whatever, but just because the way you're arguing things is completely....bad. Cam explained why he doesn't like the game, ending his post by saying it's just for him (aka: this is my opinion that I am entitled to and I'm not saying the game is horrible). You then attacked him with ****ty counterpoints. Particularly:

The gameplay of Maple is all it had going for it.

...really now? Replace "gameplay" in that sentence with "graphics" or "number of monsters" or some other trivial thing and I can understand you downplaying it, but dude, GAMEPLAY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN A GAME. That was basically Cam's whole point, that he didn't like the boring gameplay. And honestly, you downplay the activeness of Maplestory (even for a priest). Hell, you could just say that all CounterStrike matches are just

buy guns shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot die respawn buy guns shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot winround etc

but that'd be downplaying the entire game. Yes, that is pretty much all you do for the entire game. Does that mean that each repetition of the word "shoot" is exactly the same as the last? HELL NO. There is a lot to do in MS, especially as you move to higher levels. Bosses like Zakum and Pianus require some amounts of planning and skill to execute them properly. Even regular training is a lot more work than just hitting some button all day long. You didn't agree with Cam's generalization of click click click click so please, stop being a nutsack and generalizing MS to just being using a skill over and over.

As for the skill using thing, the one thing that pissed me off about combat in Trickster was that you have to click the skill button and THEN the monster. Given this college's ****ing terrible network lag, I missed 75% of the battle (it would still be happening, I just wouldn't get the data, so suddenly me and the monster would both attack each other 10 times). Thing is, same thing happens when I play Guild Wars here, but in Guild Wars, if you have clicked an enemy and are targetting it, when you press the skill button, it automatically uses it on the target (unless it's a buff or healing spell or something that obviously isn't for the monster). Thus, if I lag while playing GW, I can keep hitting buttons and somewhat control the battle, since it will properly target the enemy, as opposed to Trickster, where if I hit F1 and click the monster, it won't accept the F1, just the click, so I won't use my skill. The fact that games exist (and have existed for some time) where you can hit the skill button and it be used on the monster targetted leaves Trickster with no reason why it isn't like that.

Also, I think what Cam means is that the game's system is just complicated enough that not explaining it makes it very confusing. I am not an idiot, I read everything in games where I don't know what's going on. If they had properly explained to me how exactly to refine and upgrade weapons, I would have read it. I'm still not 100% sure how to do it (I think I know how, but I've never personally done it). In MS, they may not tell you how to scroll things, but you find scrolls and they tell you their effects, so you try putting them on your items and BAM you've figured out how to scroll things. In Trickster, I got items that said they could add DP or whatever, and I tried doubleclicking them, dragging them to items, and all sorts of things. They did NOT explain to me how to do it.

Also, you seem to totally ignore Cam's very good point that each level in MS means a lot more. Getting to 100 is a major accomplishment in MS, and people recognize you for it. Getting to 100 in Trickster is like....yeah okay whatever.

And uh, in Trickster's defense, I've had convos with people in-game during parties. The "ZOMG YOU GOT ITEM'D!" is annoying, but it's at least a different color, so I can follow conversations somewhat. Also, with noshare parties, nobody cares if you sit and talk, so it happens more. They need to get the item messages out of there, though.

Also, I don't like the decentralization of Trickster's market. Free Market in MS rocks because it's a central gathering point and makes buying and selling (if you have NX Cash, which is the only way Trickster wins here) piss easy. Only market system I've experienced that I think is better was in KoL, but that game is quite a bit different than either Trickster or MS. But seriously, before FM in MS, buying and selling sucked, but now that it's all set up I think MS's market is much easier to get into than Trickster's.

And finally, I'd just like to point out that Squeek was all "oh well 4th job isn't even out it's still in testing" but then argues the benefits of Trickster's 4th job. Seriously, find some good basis to argue on, don't just shotgun it. =\

[Squeek]

Gameplay is important, but it gets old when you're forced to do the same thing thousands of times per hour for twenty hours.

If Maple were the way I wanted it, you'd do that for about an hour before learning a new skill that made killing even faster. There would be about five or ten levelups in-between that timeframe. Unfortunately this means 50x+ EXP.

Last I saw, each 4th job class had ONE SKILL EACH. Maybe DKs had two, but all of the those animated GIFs I saw were just one each. Archers had that glowing charge shot. Bandits had the sneak attack. DKs had the magnet. Fire mages had that super explosion. So far this is looking like one each. It doesn't look like an entire skill book. It doesn't look like they're even close to perfecting the one skill that is out so far. It doesn't look like you're getting it any time in 2007.

That lag thing happened to me only in the first week or two. I had the exact same situation: all of the hits would show up in a bunch after the lag was over and I missed everything. Then at the same time, a lot of the kiddies went back to Maple and they upgraded the servers. Ever since then, I have not lagged ONCE.

I like the skill thing, personally. Sometimes I have to wait for the recharge (my skill takes 3 seconds to charge up again) and by the time I do that, the enemy I'm attacking is almost dead, so while he's auto-attacking, I hit F3 (skill button) and hover over the other enemy attacking me (enemies at my level range all auto-attack and they are all very fast and mobby). As soon as I deliver the final blow to the one I'm swinging at, I click the other target and the power attack is delivered instantly, followed by my barrage of swings.

Again, the refine and compound NPCs name the process, the benefits, the downfalls, the location of ores, etc. When you put the item in, it tells you what can be compounded onto it / what can be refined and what it can become. Sure, the compounder doesn't tell you where to get the items to compound, but neither does Maple tell you what to kill a million of before you get 7 scrolls. Whereas I can kill about five enemies and get two monster drops to compound my stuff.

I'll give you that, but you're assuming it's incredibly easy to get scrolls in Maple without buying them from other people or looking up where to get them. If you're buying them from other people or looking up where to get them, then you could have done the same for Trickster. There are dozens of sites out there with information on where to get items for compounds. How else would I have known what to kill to get defense on my stuff?

Yeah, the GMs at Maple sure do agree with you. The higher you get, the more likely it is to them that you're a hacker and you should be banned.

It seems the ultimate goal of everyone in maple is to get banned. OMG YOU LOOTED A BOTTER. BANNED! YOU KILLED ENEMIES THAT WERE VACCED DAYS AGO! BANNNNNNNNEEEED! YOU BOUGHT NX WITH MESO. I DON'T CARE THAT YOU PUT IN HUNDREDS OF HOURS INTO THIS GAME. YOU'RE BANNED.

I should have been banned, and I would have liked it if I had been. I saw Patisseire about an hour after I bought my first NX for about three seconds and figured he knew. So, it's pretty obvious they have a tab on me and could lay the ban down if they ever feel like it.

You know. Instead of banning the actual script kiddies. My friend still utilizes hacks in Maple to generate high-level accounts, then sells them on eBay. He hasn't gotten banned for it at all.

I at least know what 4th job has in store for me from translating the Japanese Trickster Wiki page, and I know it's based on my card-throwing skills in the 2nd job, so now I know for sure I have to get those skills if I want to keep up. What if it turns out you had to have composition as a pre-req for some 4th job skill and you didn't? Or maxed poison brace?

SP in Maple is a lot more easy to work with. Our good skills cost 15 TM total to Master, and most players spend about every two levels raising TM once. TM levels mean a lot more in Trickster than they do in Maple, because you actually have to think about what you're doing to keep your TM in line. You can't actually just go out and kill stuff if you expect to be able to get skills too.

Also, 100 in Maple is halfway to the Max. Trickster's max is rumored to be level 400. So, yeah 100 isn't a big deal. And of course it only took me a month to get there. You could say that the time you've spent on Maple is not wasted and that high levels actually matter, but to me, high levels just meant more people begging and a +10 damage to my Heal skill.

Again, none of you (aside from Bonk) have played a Cleric from scratch all the way to 2nd job. I'll be interested to see what he's thinking when (if) he gets to 90. Of course, you guys had all the good stuff out by the time you started and got higher leveled, whereas I spent 30 straight levels at one map. The worst map in the game. Zombies.

Personally, I think I'm entitled to have retired from Maple on the claims that there are thousands of better games out there based on my crappy experience with the game. I said before, had I started with a Crossbowman, it might be the highest in the game and I might still be playing (assuming I hadn't been banned). They are the best character. It's just a shame that being a Priest drained all of my interest in the game.

[Tonberry_Kid]

Forums aren't for chatting, please take this to AIM, MSN, or chat. kthxbai

Still 38, been working on my Dragon which is level 20 I think.

[Squeek]

Haha, this is not even remotely close to chatting.

When we say that, it's because two users are like

"how ru doin"
"im ok u?"
"fien"
"deez forumz r coo lol"
"ya i no rite"
"ya"

Case in point: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...t=45085&page=2

This is debate, which is what forums were initially intended for. This kind of discussion would never work over AIM.

[evilbutterfly]

rofl tonberry thinks he's a mod

none of you (aside from Bonk) have played a Cleric from scratch all the way to 2nd job

Uh, I played a cleric from scratch up to 2nd job. It's piss easy. If I could loot properly in JMS (takes forever cuz of the servers being so far) I'd easily be over 50 by now. Bonk zoomed up to 60 in like a month without even playing much. Some people jokingly accused him of hacking, and I think some of them may have had some serious behind it. Clerics are piss easy to level compared to most other classes. You probably meant to say 3rd job in the part of your post I quoted, I guess? >__>

As for the 4th job skill thing, yeah, they released more a while back. ckj just posted a video of one of the new buffs in action in the Maplestory thread. Honestly, with how much you wander into the MS thread I'm surprised you didn't know this. All the classes got at least one more skill (plus Maple Hero, which you forgot to mention, plus some placeholder skill text that is in the client but doesn't show up in-game that indicates things like Holy Charge for WKs and such, IIRC). Archers' dragon pulse skill got changed, a different thing similar to what dragon pulse was got added, but more importantly they got a critical shot buff that gives +15% chance and +40% critical damage. This means 65% chance +140% dmg total for sins, and critical for warriors and bandits. Warriors got this weird skill that prevents knockback or something, I forget exactly. Warriors are pissed about their 4th job so far. Mages got the COOLEST **** EVER, magic reflection. Sends 50% of magic damage back at enemies (like powerguard but for magic). Thieves got some sort of super avoid buff that makes them evade like 50% of attacks or something crazy, plus this weird skill that provokes enemies (raises attack, defense, etc) but gives better exp/drops. KMS is adding these 4th job skills fairly quickly, but since some of the first set got changed when the 2nd set came (and since the 2nd set uses old graphics (the critical shot buff uses the same icon as critical shot for sins/archers) so far) they'll probably do these rapidfire tests and revisions and see which skills work best. Sure, we won't get 4th job, but JMS already got Riprey (the area where you get 4th job) and we have very little left to get in GMS, so we'll get that before too long. I expect 4th job to be finished in KMS in the next half a year maybe, and maybe get to GMS in the next year? I dunno, generous estimates, I'd say, since most people will quit by then if we don't have 4th job.

Also, level 100 is not quite half of the max. There's that chart that shows how much of the total exp for level 200 you've gotten, and level 100 is like, not even 5% of the way there or something. The exp needed really ramps up in MS.

Also, as for the battle system, I think anybody who has played both GW (or anything like it) and Trickster will agree that it's better for attacks to automatically be cast on the target. In GW I could go ahead and select my next target and hit the skill as soon as whatever I'm currently attacking dies, meaning I can operate in the same way you described, but without the hassle of hitting the skill button and then clicking. Really, the lack of keyboard shortcuts for ANYTHING in Trickster makes me mad. Letting WASD or the arrows control movement would be a simple matter to implement and would make a lot of people more comfortable with the game, or giving a key that automatically selects the nearest enemy. I hate being forced to use one device or the other, especially when I know the one I can't use would be more efficient. =\

And I think you saying that not knowing which monster drops what scroll is a completely moot point. I can't think of ANY RPG game that tells you what monsters drop what weapons and whatnot. Part of the adventure of an RPG is discovery, and finding out which thing drops what is a major part of that. I mean, don't you look at a site/ask people what drops things you want in Trickster? And you can't much argue that higher drop rates make the game any better. More stressfree for you, maybe. More stupid and less rewarding for me, definitely. One thing I like in Maplestory is the sense of reward I get in being stronger. I love seeing people around my level (or higher, haha) doing less damage than me, cuz I know that I got my stuff and had little-no help, and that it's because I was smart enough to manage my money and was able to afford the crap that costs so much because it doesn't drop often. Same way if we had a GMS Tespia server with insane exp and drop rates, I might play for a while, but I would return to Bera because the sense of accomplishment would be gone in a test server. When everybody is special, nobody is special.

And I don't know what you're talking about with bannings. Other than that whole NX buying thing (which was an actual legal matter that cost Wizet a lot of money, so I understand why they banned so many people "for no reason"), I don't see people in MS getting banned for no reason. I see people that need banning get away with whatever, but they eventually get what's coming. Innocents, though, well....I don't know why you think they get banned. o_O

[Squeek]

Third job*. Sorry.

So if you know you're not supposed to know what drops what, why are you complaining about not knowing what to do?! The NPCs list off everything you need to do except for the enemy you need to kill in order to get the compound item.

So, NOW it's TOO EASY for you. YOU JUST SAID everything other than leveling was too hard.

You know, it's NOT EASY killing a level 190+ enemy for your level 120 sword. It's a good thing they drop easily because otherwise I wouldn't do it. It gets worse too. I'm glad Eyo got that 130 sword for me, because it would have taken me thousands in potions to get it on my own and I probably would have died a few times trying.

You know, it's NOT EASY digging up the job advance items or the quest items. Drilling is probably the most tedious part of this game. It took me a solid week to get my job advance items.

I feel the same way about my character. I see people all the time take more damage than I do, and I go "Heh, so glad I have amazing DP equipment without paying a whole lot for it."

I've never seen anyone take less damage than I do, even when I don't use my defense skill. That gives me a sense of accomplishment.

[Tonberry_Kid]

Originally Posted by evilbutterfly

rofl tonberry thinks he's a mod

Just making fun of Squeek sort of.

[ckj846]

Originally Posted by Squeek

Gameplay is important, but it gets old when you're forced to do the same thing thousands of times per hour for twenty hours.

Oh wait... Clicking and then clicking again and then pushing f3 then clicking then clicking again isn't doing the same thing over and over again for millions of hours? Since when?

Originally Posted by Squeek

If Maple were the way I wanted it, you'd do that for about an hour before learning a new skill that made killing even faster. There would be about five or ten levelups in-between that timeframe. Unfortunately this means 50x+ EXP.

Like EB said... If everyone was special and had so many skills, what fun would it be? With my ranger.. I don't know how many times I wanted to quit just because of how long and tedious it was... But it was well worth it in the end. If I leveled so fast (like you and your priest.. o_O) getting new skills fast just makes you that much more bored with them that much quicker. Like with my friend's priest, I got bored of it relatively quickly just because of all the skills available, I felt I didn't have to work for any of it (and I didn't) so I didn't go through the pain of leveling that character while my friend is happily going around with her priest, still into the game, still going strong. I understand it is a boring class, but my point is if you got everything so fast (imagine getting hs at level 20 or something o_O) it would be amazlngly boring, which is what happened with trickster and me.

Originally Posted by Squeek

Last I saw, each 4th job class had ONE SKILL EACH. Maybe DKs had two, but all of the those animated GIFs I saw were just one each. Archers had that glowing charge shot. Bandits had the sneak attack. DKs had the magnet. Fire mages had that super explosion. So far this is looking like one each. It doesn't look like an entire skill book. It doesn't look like they're even close to perfecting the one skill that is out so far. It doesn't look like you're getting it any time in 2007.

You check the maple forum this much and you don't know what is going on? EB already explained it but every class has almost 3 skills out for each class. It was only a few months when JMS got Riprey... And they are probably going to get 4th job fairly soon. We should expect it next year.

Originally Posted by Squeek

That lag thing happened to me only in the first week or two. I had the exact same situation: all of the hits would show up in a bunch after the lag was over and I missed everything. Then at the same time, a lot of the kiddies went back to Maple and they upgraded the servers. Ever since then, I have not lagged ONCE.

I still don't like the gameplay. Even without lag, it would still be... Point, click, click, point, click, f3, click, point, click. At least in maple you jump, duck, climb, shoot, rain, puppet, inferno, pkb, use buffs, and so forth. You even said yourself gameplay is more exciting in maple... why do you try to justify yourself with your lagfree game?

Originally Posted by Squeek

I like the skill thing, personally. Sometimes I have to wait for the recharge (my skill takes 3 seconds to charge up again) and by the time I do that, the enemy I'm attacking is almost dead, so while he's auto-attacking, I hit F3 (skill button) and hover over the other enemy attacking me (enemies at my level range all auto-attack and they are all very fast and mobby). As soon as I deliver the final blow to the one I'm swinging at, I click the other target and the power attack is delivered instantly, followed by my barrage of swings.

Again, this is point and click. YOU SAY SO YOURSELF YOU WATCH ANIME WHEN YOU PLAY. HOW IS THIS FUN? JUST EXPLAIN THAT TO ME RIGHT NOW...

Originally Posted by Squeek

Again, the refine and compound NPCs name the process, the benefits, the downfalls, the location of ores, etc. When you put the item in, it tells you what can be compounded onto it / what can be refined and what it can become. Sure, the compounder doesn't tell you where to get the items to compound, but neither does Maple tell you what to kill a million of before you get 7 scrolls. Whereas I can kill about five enemies and get two monster drops to compound my stuff.

And the game doesn't tell you where these NPCs are. The people don't even have text above them saying OH WANT ME TO CRAFT SOMETHING FOR YOU???? I still haven't figured it out because the NPC told me to go to the mines. WHERE IS THE MINES? Doesn't tell me. I have to ask other people, who are too busy training or afk or just doing w/e. Who cares if you can get your compounding stuff or whatever fast? You can get it just as fast in the market in maple. Monsters drop **** money in trickster, level 100 monster dropped like 100 geldar. Wow... when level 50 monsters are dropping 400 mesos each o_O So don't complain about money problems in maple, because it is just as bad in trickster.

Originally Posted by Squeek

I'll give you that, but you're assuming it's incredibly easy to get scrolls in Maple without buying them from other people or looking up where to get them. If you're buying them from other people or looking up where to get them, then you could have done the same for Trickster. There are dozens of sites out there with information on where to get items for compounds. How else would I have known what to kill to get defense on my stuff?

It IS incredibly easy to get scrolls. Quests? Trickster has no quests that give you anything of value other then exp... thus making me feel like I wasted my time. The quests are even more pointless then the ones in maple... And I really hated that because you get a really crappy reward for doing the most retarded thing ever. GO KILL X MONSTER IN X TIME AND COME BACK TO ME AND GET 500 TM EXP ^_^. Dull, boring, just makes the game MORE repetitive.

Originally Posted by Squeek

Yeah, the GMs at Maple sure do agree with you. The higher you get, the more likely it is to them that you're a hacker and you should be banned.

That was only in Windia. And that is because all the high leveled people hacked to get there, just like I'll bet they are going to ban everyone on Bellocan (they almost have a 3rd jobber right...?)

Originally Posted by Squeek

It seems the ultimate goal of everyone in maple is to get banned. OMG YOU LOOTED A BOTTER. BANNED! YOU KILLED ENEMIES THAT WERE VACCED DAYS AGO! BANNNNNNNNEEEED! YOU BOUGHT NX WITH MESO. I DON'T CARE THAT YOU PUT IN HUNDREDS OF HOURS INTO THIS GAME. YOU'RE BANNED.

That is why you dont' do stupid things like that.

Originally Posted by Squeek

I should have been banned, and I would have liked it if I had been. I saw Patisseire about an hour after I bought my first NX for about three seconds and figured he knew. So, it's pretty obvious they have a tab on me and could lay the ban down if they ever feel like it.

But they haven't.

Originally Posted by Squeek

You know. Instead of banning the actual script kiddies. My friend still utilizes hacks in Maple to generate high-level accounts, then sells them on eBay. He hasn't gotten banned for it at all.

And here is where trickster is actually better then maple. The community apparently is a lot better (I mean, what game doesn't have a better community?). Maple's community gets worse and worse everyday, but that doesn't make the game less fun. You can still go into outoftheway places to just relax and have fun. Most of the jackasses in maple are at zombies and at lower leveled stuff anyways, or extremely high leveled stuff (like zakum parties in scania are hell.. seriously all the people are jerks there). My point is... a crappy community doesn't make it impossible for me to still enjoy the game because I met incredible people there.

Originally Posted by Squeek

I at least know what 4th job has in store for me from translating the Japanese Trickster Wiki page, and I know it's based on my card-throwing skills in the 2nd job, so now I know for sure I have to get those skills if I want to keep up. What if it turns out you had to have composition as a pre-req for some 4th job skill and you didn't? Or maxed poison brace?

SP reset? Don't make it sound like it is impossible to change your skills and everything in maple because you know that is a bunch of ****. Who cares if you know your 4th job stuff? You are in beta and you will probably have to start over anyways so what is the point? 4th job will probably come out in like 2 years for you guys so dont' use that as leverage o_O

Originally Posted by Squeek

SP in Maple is a lot more easy to work with. Our good skills cost 15 TM total to Master, and most players spend about every two levels raising TM once. TM levels mean a lot more in Trickster than they do in Maple, because you actually have to think about what you're doing to keep your TM in line. You can't actually just go out and kill stuff if you expect to be able to get skills too.

TM level ruined the game for me. I had to make a decision whether I wanted to be stronger or get new skills at the same time. Don't tell me it takes more skill because it is more complex, which makes the game more fun and better then maple, because that is a bunch of ****. Oh yes, I want to kill super low leveled monsters for hours to raise my TM level and get **** exp or I want to do annoying TM quests and get almost nothing out of it. Yes that is very much worth my time...

Originally Posted by Squeek

Also, 100 in Maple is halfway to the Max. Trickster's max is rumored to be level 400. So, yeah 100 isn't a big deal. And of course it only took me a month to get there. You could say that the time you've spent on Maple is not wasted and that high levels actually matter, but to me, high levels just meant more people begging and a +10 damage to my Heal skill.

Level 100 doesn't mean as much in trickster then it does in maple. Level only matters because it shows your dedication to a game. Level 100 in a month? A month of dedication? That is nothing. 100 in maple takes considerably longer, thus people have more respect for those people. I got to 40 in a week in trickster o_O Doesn't feel great, nor does anyone else care because IT IS SO EASY TO GET.

Originally Posted by Squeek

Again, none of you (aside from Bonk) have played a Cleric from scratch all the way to 2nd job. I'll be interested to see what he's thinking when (if) he gets to 90. Of course, you guys had all the good stuff out by the time you started and got higher leveled, whereas I spent 30 straight levels at one map. The worst map in the game. Zombies.

I played a cleric until level 40 and then played my sister's cleric from 55-60. Then I trained my friend's priest from 70-75 when she was in HK. Yes I think I pretty much did 2nd job and parts of 3rd job as a cleric. It's fun but not the most fun in the world, but it still beats out mages in trickster by A TON. I guess you have to understand that I picked a mage in trickster, probably one of the most boring, but why should I be convinced to play again when I hated my first experience?

Originally Posted by Squeek

Personally, I think I'm entitled to have retired from Maple on the claims that there are thousands of better games out there based on my crappy experience with the game. I said before, had I started with a Crossbowman, it might be the highest in the game and I might still be playing (assuming I hadn't been banned). They are the best character. It's just a shame that being a Priest drained all of my interest in the game.

Yes you are entitled to retire from maple, but there is no sense in going into the maple forum and going LOL NUBS THIS GAME IS SO BORING I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW YOU STILL PLAY. Or making a ****ing retarded ass remark at someone GEE WAIT UNTIL LEVEL 90 LAWLS. That was my point (and probably EB's) of posting this in here. I'm not here to go LAWL TRICKSTER SUCKS I DON'T KNOW HOW ANY OF U CAN PLAY IT STILL LAWLZ. I said I don't play this game and I stated my reasons, and you and Eyo had to attack me and tell me I'm wrong. Yes this is a debate, and yes you are entitlted to your own opinions. I'm stating mine and EB is stating his, that is all I have to say.
O_o