05-14-2015, 03:07 PM | #41 | ||
Private Messages, please.
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
Quote:
You're establishing that passes aren't meaningful because averages don't have a life penalty and that makes passing too easy. Is boiling FFR down to a single goal oriented game really what we want? -o24
__________________
Quote:
|
||
05-14-2015, 03:29 PM | #42 |
Forum User
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
I think he's establishing that various songs on FFR are too easy to mash, and that the "Averages as a penalty" is simply a possible solution.
Having a secondary way to complete a song, like the "hard mode" that has been suggested also provides more than the single goal of AAA'ing the song. With only one chart per song there isn't much more than the one goal of AAA'ing it, no?
__________________
Twitch | Stepping Stones 2! | Stepping Stones 3! | Stepping Stones 4! Submit to this - Last edited by Kraezymann; 05-14-2015 at 03:50 PM.. |
05-14-2015, 03:40 PM | #43 |
Accuracy Player
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Connecticut
Age: 28
Posts: 4,628
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
I never understood the need to mash at all. If you're mashing a song, wouldn't that mean you haven't gathered enough skill to actually play the patterns the correct way but instead your brain goes to a "let me hit every key I can because I won't fail because the Perfect life regen outweighs the mashing speed of boo'ing patterns". It's honestly a misinterpretation of how to play the game in general.
__________________
|
05-14-2015, 03:51 PM | #44 | ||||
🡸Index🡻Is🡹Fun!🡺
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Auserd
Posts: 1,932
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
Quote:
__________________
Old Quotes Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
05-14-2015, 03:54 PM | #45 | |
Accuracy Player
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Connecticut
Age: 28
Posts: 4,628
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
Quote:
IMO Mashing would help you build up stamina in your forearms (the burning sensation you feel) which Arch0wl (or someone else) mentioned in an earlier thread some time ago.
__________________
|
|
05-14-2015, 04:11 PM | #46 | |||
🡸Index🡻Is🡹Fun!🡺
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Auserd
Posts: 1,932
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
Reasons to mash:
1. Isolating patterns and playing them over and over again is the one thing that gets me mind blocked (example being System Doctor, I tried isolating the part I had trouble on and I never got it even after many recorded tries.) Also, usually parts that need isolating are at the end of songs, and after playing through the whole song (at least in difficult songs) your arms are weathered and don't feel the same as when only playing the isolation (they are more tired), so even if you do hit the isolation a couple of times (in my case, Dissapearance of Miku) by the time you get to the part you isolated and AAAd in isolation, your arms feel different. 2. When I say I mash to get better currently, I didn't mean I mash every song, I only mash the ones I cannot come close to doing at the moment. When I mash, I look at the screen the whole time and analyze the notes, and after doing that for about a week, intermediate parts in hard songs (like conspiracy of silence) become easier to do. 3. After mashing, my fingers feel like they are able to move faster (hence why I always warm up with incredibly hard songs). "If you're mashing a song, wouldn't that mean you haven't gathered enough skill to actually play the patterns the correct way but instead your brain goes to a "let me hit every key I can because I won't fail " " My brain doesn't go like that. When I mash the hard parts, I think -I need to mash hard to tire myself- and when I get to intermediate parts, my brain thinks -mash with less intensity and focus on what the patterns look like-. Though I don't really think it to where I can hear myself think, more like I just.. do it. Edit: I don't focus on the hardest patterns in some songs, only the intermediates, because I'm no where near being able to hit those hard parts (like the insanely fast parts of torero) 4. Mashing to gain more skill is not a misinterpretation if the ultimate goal is to be able to become better at the game when not mashing. I may come edit this after more mp Edit: I will edit this throughout mp cus why not Edit: Mashing can help you get better if you do it "right" in a way. How I look at it is basically training my body like a weight trainer would for a competition, but for FFR.. Also I think you have to be at a certain skill before mashing to get better to actually get better (maybe D5 and up) so to get better by mashing may only be helpful to people who are very used to reading patterns and are committed to the physical fatigue after mashing the hardest of songs. Edit: As I said, the way I look at it is training my body for FFR. That doesn't mean I just mash (or for an analogy I don't just do squats to strengthen my legs) I also do rates when I am at my peak to help maintain and practice the stamina and reading ability gained from mashing. Edit: Even though mashing is not the only way to get better, it's still a part of how I do. Edit: This may seem a little off topic, but soon after I got to D7, magnuses (a d6 player) came to me asking for advice on how to get better. At the time I couldn't offer much advice, but I did invite him to "train" with me, and we ended up doing that for a while. He said personally that he felt like he improved more after our "training sessions". Training sessions were basically mashing hard songs and playing a few "easy" hard songs, along with a few tips on how I train solo (with rates). Edit: I don't think I missed anything.
__________________
Old Quotes Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Rapta; 05-14-2015 at 04:56 PM.. |
|||
05-14-2015, 04:51 PM | #47 | |
Accuracy Player
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Connecticut
Age: 28
Posts: 4,628
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
Quote:
2) You might as well use the song preview in the level ranks to pause at what a pattern looks like (cannot be done on Mania so I agree halfheartedly there). You could also take a screenshot of the specific pattern and read it and muscle memory your fingers into hitting at least the right keys at the time to get a feel for the pattern. 3) Your explanation makes no sense whatsoever. You are literally saying you mash very difficult patterns because you do not have the stamina to do them in a real run without burning your stamina before the end of the song. You are also saying that on lesser difficult patterns, you mash slightly and moreso read the pattern itself. You might as well just play the damn pattern and not mash. 4) Your misinterpreting the actual trying to hit patterns. If you awkwardly mash (presumably jumptrill 12 - 34 contantly), then you are missing the timing information and the accuracy lessons in actually playing the game. To a lesser extent you are right but there is still no real beneficial purpose of mashing, excluding the ones that were previous mentioned like stamina training. EDIT2: There is no right way to mash period. If you mean that you are presumably mashing the actual patterns because you can read the arrows and not actually hitting them by getting either Perfects Goods or Averages, then you are missing out on the physical learning part of hitting a pattern correctly. I feel this is more an issue of "Does mashing just create more work for the same results in lesser time?".
__________________
|
|
05-14-2015, 04:58 PM | #48 |
Digital Dancing!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 80 billion club, NE
Age: 31
Posts: 12,980
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
justified mashing lol.
The only somewhat acceptable reason is to warm up. I thought that a D7 player claiming their arms are weathered after playing up til the ending of System Doctor was funny, considering that file is an absolute joke excluding the end.
__________________
|
05-14-2015, 05:05 PM | #49 | ||||
🡸Index🡻Is🡹Fun!🡺
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Auserd
Posts: 1,932
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
Quote:
From Zenith: "I feel this is more an issue of "Does mashing just create more work for the same results in lesser time?"." From personal experience, I started mashing to get better a bit after the 9th official. People have said I skill gained incredibly fast to go from D5 to D7. That is presumably why. "on lesser difficult patterns, you mash slightly and moreso read the pattern itself. You might as well just play the damn pattern and not mash." Just because it is a lesser difficult pattern doesn't mean it can be done, nor does the fact that it is easier than the harder parts mean that just because you can read it better, you should try it instead of mashing every time. If there is a part that can be done, surely do it but if you cannot do it in the slightest, don't try to do it yet, just mash until you find yourself to be able to do it. I hope I stated that correctly.
__________________
Old Quotes Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Rapta; 05-14-2015 at 05:13 PM.. |
||||
05-15-2015, 08:57 AM | #50 | |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fb.com/a.macdonald.iv
Age: 35
Posts: 6,344
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
@Rapta: if you want to mash through songs we're currently discussing the idea of a "pro pass" feature.
I personally think we'd be better off if the game had a harder lifebar to begin with, but if that's too controversial, an option to just enable a harder lifebar pass as an intermediate between passing and FCing would be great. Quote:
Do you have the data for Pop'n? That game's lifebar is ridiculous. |
|
05-15-2015, 09:01 AM | #51 | |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fb.com/a.macdonald.iv
Age: 35
Posts: 6,344
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
Quote:
meaningfulness, in terms of goals, is inversely related to achievability. if everyone can do x, then it's not that meaningful of an accomplishment; if you're the only person in the world who can do x, it's definitely meaningful; if you're the only person who can do x and there is an ocean of competition for doing x, well, it probably involves a sport and you're probably a millionaire but whatever. you're saying that FCs aren't meaningful because they're not related to the score hierarchy, but that is not and has never been the case, even with games that prioritize score to a greater degree than FFR. a full combo on Mei another in IIDX is a huge deal, for example; only I think one person has done it, even though FC's aren't recognized by the game. |
|
05-15-2015, 10:14 AM | #52 | |
Confirmed Heartbreaker
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 35
Posts: 5,858
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
Quote:
*ahem*
__________________
|
|
05-15-2015, 10:35 AM | #53 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fb.com/a.macdonald.iv
Age: 35
Posts: 6,344
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
I think we should listen to Wayward Vagabond but what would he know about FFR he's only designed most of the charts in the game
|
05-15-2015, 10:42 AM | #54 |
Confirmed Heartbreaker
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 35
Posts: 5,858
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
hand crafted with love and ddreams
__________________
|
05-15-2015, 12:40 PM | #55 | ||
FFR Player
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
Quote:
It's somewhere around 40+ greats for a single bar for certain songs (also fixed a typo i made with the hard/exhard values)
__________________
Quote:
Last edited by ca25nada; 05-15-2015 at 12:41 PM.. |
||
05-15-2015, 04:29 PM | #56 | |
D7 Elite Keymasher
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In My Room, 10101
Age: 33
Posts: 4,676
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
Quote:
__________________
Thee Burstinator [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] |
|
05-15-2015, 05:18 PM | #57 | ||
Private Messages, please.
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
Quote:
-o24
__________________
Quote:
|
||
05-15-2015, 05:20 PM | #58 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fb.com/a.macdonald.iv
Age: 35
Posts: 6,344
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
@SK
you didn't read/understand what I said meaningfulness is unrelated to score, it's related to achievability, how people regard them is... tangential, since people tend to hyperfocus on their current skill range, and most of the people who post here are extreme outliers relative to the average https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnWYCAlmiHE this is, I believe, the only fc of this song on iidx, and it's completely unrelated to score but you better believe it's significant if FCs were unmeaningful on FFR it'd be because of mashability, not because FCs themselves are unmeaningful; a non-mashed FC on a hard song is still an accomplishment Last edited by Arch0wl; 05-15-2015 at 05:21 PM.. |
05-15-2015, 05:32 PM | #59 |
Autismspeaks.gov
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
Nah Rag is the second person to have a video recorded FC of the song. There is a nicodouga video of a dude giving a tutorial on how to nonran FC Mei. Also I mean there is another guy who FC'd Mendes Black which is well probably the only FC on it.
__________________
|
05-15-2015, 05:33 PM | #60 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fb.com/a.macdonald.iv
Age: 35
Posts: 6,344
|
Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty
holy fuck who fc'd mendes black
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|