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Old 08-23-2018, 06:37 PM   #21
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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Originally Posted by Arch0wl View Post
clearly, what is called "nice" or "respectful" varies from person to person, and something like "you should just be nice" is a moral simplification.

any sort of moral code, or rule, or law based on ideas like:
"just being nice" or the converse "don't be a jerk"

"being a decent person"

"respect others"
will be inherently vague, and open to large debate. people's values will change how they interpret these words -- someone who seeks feedback about their body and wants to be flattered will think you are being "mean" if you tell the truth, while someone who wants objective fedback will think lying to spare their feelings is deeply inconsiderate. the vagueness of "being nice" will cause problems later, as there is no common basis to interpret what being nice or respectful means.

So when you want to respect somebody, and they say "Please change this behavior you exhibited towards me, because I don't like it" the vagueness has been removed: You are now presented with a situation where somebody has made it clear that you are not "being nice" or "respecting" them.

Do you respect their ability to identify for themselves when they feel that way? Or will you only accept it if somebody can formulate an objective meaning for "be nice to me"?

Like...isn't it a pretty clearly understood concept in modern adult society that "Be nice to me" means "Don't do things you think will be mean, or things that, having done them once, you've been informed are not in fact nice"?
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Old 08-23-2018, 08:06 PM   #22
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace View Post
would you prefer i act more like him and just do it exclusively behind his back
Yes
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Old 08-23-2018, 09:22 PM   #23
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

I'd rather have celery bully me than mina because celly boi has an extremely good voice
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Old 08-23-2018, 10:16 PM   #24
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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I'd rather have celery bully me than mina because celly boi has an extremely good voice
Can confirm
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Old 08-23-2018, 11:07 PM   #25
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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Yes
ouch ok with friends like u maybe celirra will realize constantly and exclusively talking shit behind everyone's back doesn't make him a good person
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Old 08-23-2018, 11:13 PM   #26
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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ouch ok with friends like u maybe celirra will realize constantly and exclusively talking shit behind everyone's back doesn't make him a good person
you're right i always have his back
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Old 08-24-2018, 12:22 AM   #27
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

sometimes i think and try to figure out what i did to garner animosity from people
then i realize c'est la vie eh
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Old 08-24-2018, 05:52 AM   #28
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch0wl View Post
clearly, what is called "nice" or "respectful" varies from person to person, and something like "you should just be nice" is a moral simplification.

any sort of moral code, or rule, or law based on ideas like:
"just being nice" or the converse "don't be a jerk"

"being a decent person"

"respect others"
will be inherently vague, and open to large debate. people's values will change how they interpret these words -- someone who seeks feedback about their body and wants to be flattered will think you are being "mean" if you tell the truth, while someone who wants objective fedback will think lying to spare their feelings is deeply inconsiderate. the vagueness of "being nice" will cause problems later, as there is no common basis to interpret what being nice or respectful means.

this is why analytic philosophy was a good idea

The aforementioned advice is always is context-dependent, and thus statements like "You should be nice to people" strictly speaking aren't actually statements because they have no truth value

This is why moral precepts are so hard to define

They are almost entirely interpretive instead of descriptive, but that doesn't make them useless -- they still largely serve as good heuristics for pro-social behavior.

The advice is just that: advice, not some declaration of proper moral behavior
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Old 08-24-2018, 06:38 AM   #29
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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Originally Posted by blindreper1179 View Post
Imo, a simple form of respect should be given to anyone, and whether or not it gets more reformed or lost is up to the person being given that respect.

Respect in my thoughts is to be straight with one another and to not have selfish use of someone. Being respectful isn't always nice, especially when you have to put a friend in their place. "Being nice" is like "have your friends back, even if they're wrong" and i don't agree with that.
I agree with this. I always treat people with respect initially (like I give everyone the benefit of the doubt), if they're gonna be an asshole - then I won't waste my time/energy on them.

I have this lady at work (who is in her 50's - not that age matters), that constantly runs around in circles and complains about how busy she is. So I'll give her a hand, and on multiple occasions she will yell at you and say, ' I didn't need your help, why are you young people so disrespectful and trying to take my job '. 🙄 I'm not sure how me helping you to be less stressed is me being disrespectful. 🤷
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Old 08-24-2018, 08:56 AM   #30
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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Originally Posted by Celirra View Post
sometimes i think and try to figure out what i did to garner animosity from people
then i realize c'est la vie eh
it's probably 'cause your nickname is celery
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GET DUNKED FUNNY
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our mutual desire to be funny bois and gurls.

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There comes a point where we have to ask our selves, "do we really want to deal with that, desperate as we are?"

I think we can all agree on the answer, yeah?
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Old 08-24-2018, 10:16 AM   #31
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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Originally Posted by komochii View Post
i mean objectively yea people are worthless and 100% of people will hurt or disrespect others if its in their own best interests or personal gain, but like maybe if we pretend its not the case it wont be
you have such a sad worldview
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Old 08-24-2018, 11:27 AM   #32
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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you have such a sad worldview
i guess it is sad but it's also realistic
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Old 08-24-2018, 11:41 AM   #33
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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i guess it is sad but it's also realistic
But it's trivial.

It is not defined to what extent of interest the hurt is meant, and that just voids the whole point of value. For example, one could kill a person for a 5$ bill while another one could only kill if their whole family was in grave danger. And saying people are objectively worthless is true only under the assumption that life has no intrinsic value, which is (afaik) a subjective matter of discussion. So yeah, trivial statements.
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Old 08-24-2018, 02:55 PM   #34
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

Anyone can decide the value of anything from their own perspective so, it seems weird to me that you guys would assume other people are worthless.

Being selfish is part of life because you have to take care of yourself first or else you won't have the health/energy to do anything.

That doesn't mean you don't care about others. It's just a logical priority.

There should be room left to invest yourself into others and get something constructive out of it.

If I met a stranger, I'd be respectful at first to try to get a feel of who they are and if it feels like we're both interested into having a discussion on a similar wavelength, I may eventually just say how I really think about things in a more straightforward manner. It's like layers of politeness/comfort. People do filter what they say and I think it's a mutually understood concept overall because people tend to do this unconsciously.

If you give respectful/nice vibes to people they may pick up on it. If you have no faith in them, they might pick up on it too. People can kind of read into each others and get a decent idea of what you're about. So, if you're hoping for a specific conversation, you'll have a better chance if you share concerns about it rather than trying to put others on some sort of imaginary pedestral based on how you think they are.

tl;dr: It's relative to how you want to perceive your own environment and people.

(lol, I'm kind of saying that ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" are both mutually understood, but also potentially vague because I'm not aware of if this is something everyone would do, but I just assume that's the case.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheThong View Post
I agree with this. I always treat people with respect initially (like I give everyone the benefit of the doubt), if they're gonna be an asshole - then I won't waste my time/energy on them.

I have this lady at work (who is in her 50's - not that age matters), that constantly runs around in circles and complains about how busy she is. So I'll give her a hand, and on multiple occasions she will yell at you and say, ' I didn't need your help, why are you young people so disrespectful and trying to take my job '. �� I'm not sure how me helping you to be less stressed is me being disrespectful. ��
My guess would be that she's more the indirect type and if you help her without asking her, she may be confused by your intentions and say that.
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Old 08-24-2018, 09:21 PM   #35
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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Originally Posted by Celirra View Post
sometimes i think and try to figure out what i did to garner animosity from people
then i realize c'est la vie eh
Cestlavielirra
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Old 08-25-2018, 01:45 AM   #36
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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Originally Posted by Hakulyte View Post
My guess would be that she's more the indirect type and if you help her without asking her, she may be confused by your intentions and say that.
It doesn't matter if you ask if she wants help or not, she refuses it either way. She's the type of person that panics/complains she's busy instead of actually doing the work. Because we work in emergency, it's so important that you work in a team, accept help (I feel like she sees help as being 'weak' + she's already said that myself and other young staff are trying to take her job) and if she's flustering about not doing anything productive, while refusing to accept help, I'm just gonna do it. Cos otherwise things won't get done. Trust me, myself, management and several other staff have called her out on it a million times with no improvement.
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:53 AM   #37
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

Being nice to me is a way of emotionally showing respect. While showing respect is a systen of using your value system to create intrinsic value for others, and create a logistal loving energy.
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:56 AM   #38
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

Ahhhh arch thread
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