Old 11-16-2019, 07:00 AM   #21
AutotelicBrown
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Default Re: 2019 September/October Set 5

First a note about possible 1-framers, at 232bpm they are fairly unlikely to happen and the info from the batch engine confirms it:
1 framers (3):
Note 2354 @ 2:12 (this jack will be removed anyway)
Note 3611 @ 3:13
Note 3858 @ 3:25

>- 3.413: move that [3] arrow to a [4] arrow to prevent the unnecessary 12th note minijack
This jump goes to a different thing than all the [14] following 24ths, so it makes sense to be different.
From a difficulty perspective there are no 16ths afterwards and the minijack is clean on the right hand (not to mention this is nothing in the context of the chart as a whole). Compare to 6.646 where I used [14] to soften the pattern.

>- 7.486/15.697: break these jump-jacks apart, you use separate jumps earlier on for kicks that play on 16th notes
The other 3 note 16ths to the kicks make a jumptrill to avoid a 3 note jack, otherwise I'd rather be consistent with the 8ths and keep repeating isolated kicks on the same jump.

>- 22.033/(etc): the last note of these 3-note sequences has a slightly different sounding pronounced release, making it a bit more appropriate to use a two-note mini-jack into a three note one; besides, at 232, using a 3-note jack may create a situation where a 2-framer and 1-framer come back-to-back
I'm a bit confused because this happens only once but anyway, it should be changed to a 332.

>- 25.912/(etc): not that this is rhythmically incorrect, but when you consider how this is going to be played on FFR, a good majority of this section is literally spamming [34] and [12] (over the course of about 4 seconds) - this is pretty ridiculous to play in general
I did design this section to be played as a controlled jumptrilling making the faster rhythms rolls starting from appropriate notes, and they all happen in isolated short bursts. For reference, this is how it converts to:

As far as I can tell this is perfectly fine to play except maybe the 4231 @28.628s and doesn't even compare to typical hard terminal 11 charts in that difficulty range. If possible I'd ask you for more details with your issues with this section.

>- 49.704 to 1:05.609: while the color gimmick is interesting, Iím absolutely not a fan of the execution at all because the opportunity for pitch relevance is just completely missed
>- 3:10.749: same stuff w/ color gimmick as 49.704
Note that the 48ths go to the actual 48th swing which I didn't step as is to not make this section ridiculous to play. As their pitch is connected to the previous chord I only forced them to be on the anchored 8th.
The pitch relevance of the main melody is followed by the chords themselves within the restrictions o difficulty balance.

>- 2:05.413/2:09.551/(etc): I understand the reason behind doing this, but itís better off not having a collision; youíd be better off briefly breaking layering and giving attention to the kicks by making the preceding triples opposing doubles or something like that, mostly because some jumps for kicks are ignored in general
I was a bit on the fence on including those but I'll just remove them. I was just worried that this section in general would just be autopilot for most players playing this

>- 2:28.947: disconnect the [3] from the triple to make the pattern difficult but not unmanageable.
Knowing in advance that the [14][23][14][23][134] converts as 2-1-2-2 frames I believe this shouldn't be a problem as it happens in isolation.

>- 3:24.558: disconnect the [4] from the triple to give more accenting power without making the last hard section ungodly less fun having to transition from it
Yes.
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Old 11-16-2019, 09:43 AM   #22
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Default Re: 2019 September/October Set 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0nkeyz View Post
At work right now, but do you think I should keep the streams at the start and middle structured the way it is right now or should I remove the 16th jumps and just make it full 24th streams? It would look alot cleaner, but the jumps wouldn''t be consistent. They are also the reason I omited some notes there because I felt it would be too difficult if I included the guitar there. Thats also why I wasn''t taking PR in mind too much repeating jumps just seemed a bit easier to me. 150 bpm 24th jumpstream with 16th jumps in between is something I personally can''t do so I wanted to make the streams as friendly as possible.
I did notice/feel the omissions in the stream and I do give you some credit for actually taking the initiative to try and control the difficulty. If you didn't take a look at the link I provided in my notes, it might be an idea for some other approaches you can take for that section. If you don't like them, full streaming could work: you don't have to eliminate all jumps though. Maybe you could add jumps for snares/crash cymbals only, for example. Something that's worth noting though: if you're going to go the single-note route, be very careful with your pitch relevance and patterning. It seems like the melodies in this song have a lot of back-and-forth arpeggiation, meaning you'll end up with a ton of runningmen/anchor patterning. You'll likely need to come up with some creative patterning to accent the more prominent parts of the melody as opposed to doing everything directly.

@ Autotelic:

Quote:
- 3.413: This jump goes to a different thing than all the [14] following 24ths, so it makes sense to be different. From a difficulty perspective there are no 16ths afterwards and the minijack is clean on the right hand (not to mention this is nothing in the context of the chart as a whole). Compare to 6.646 where I used [14] to soften the pattern.
Looking at your response here, I can see this contour pretty clearly actually. The three previous 24th blips end in a [14] for a snare, but the one that I mentioned ends in a kick and the offending note is freed immediately after.

Quote:
- 7.486/15.697: The other 3 note 16ths to the kicks make a jumptrill to avoid a 3 note jack, otherwise I'd rather be consistent with the 8ths and keep repeating isolated kicks on the same jump.
Hmm, I can't quite level with this only because of the pattern that is used for the mini-jacks themselves. If you're trying to consolidate pattern usage due to speed and only leverage the mini-jacks when it's two notes, perhaps the happy medium is to put the notes for the jump-jacks on the same hand. These split-handed mini-jacks are really jarring for a sound that occurs earlier at a higher frequency.

Quote:
- 22.033/(etc): I'm a bit confused because this happens only once but anyway, it should be changed to a 332.
In retrospect, I'm not sure why I put (etc) here. You're right, this is only one instance.

Quote:
- 25.912/(etc): I did design this section to be played as a controlled jumptrilling making the faster rhythms rolls starting from appropriate notes, and they all happen in isolated short bursts. For reference, this is how it converts to:
I see the patterning, and perhaps "ridiculous" was the wrong word to put here. This situation kinda comes down to the fact that there's a lot of detail put into these rhythms here, but players are going to be ignoring them at the core of what you're doing: creating a controlled jumptrilling section. On the flip-side... at this speed, I suppose there's not too much that can be done. I just don't agree with the visual presentation at points.

Quote:
- 49.704 to 1:05.609 / - 3:10.749: Note that the 48ths go to the actual 48th swing which I didn't step as is to not make this section ridiculous to play. As their pitch is connected to the previous chord I only forced them to be on the anchored 8th.
The pitch relevance of the main melody is followed by the chords themselves within the restrictions of difficulty balance.
I'm not quite following what you're referring to as the "actual 48th swing" in this case. I'm hearing the 16ths for the background chip, 8ths for the main melody whose sustain seems to be an oscillation of 64th notes (but this is too minor of a detail at this tempo to accent reliably), and percussion also lies on 16th notes as well. Aside from trying to pull an additional accent, I'm not quite following where 48th notes would be utilizable at all in this case.

Quote:
- 2:05.413/2:09.551/(etc): I was a bit on the fence on including those but I'll just remove them. I was just worried that this section in general would just be autopilot for most players playing this
The section itself has some pretty abrasive transitioning and also features polyrhythmic structures at points - it'll be everything but autopilot, I'd like to think

Quote:
- 2:28.947: Knowing in advance that the [14][23][14][23][134] converts as 2-1-2-2 frames I believe this shouldn't be a problem as it happens in isolation.
While I understand your sentiment, I don't like the idea of saying "yes" to this simply because it converts well as this would be a point that I would be mentioning if it were played somewhere like Etterna/osu!mania as well. This split-handed jumptrill colliding into a mini-jack that is controlled entirely on one hand in a section that's relatively isolated feels problematic to me, and suddenly saying "yes, this is ok because of conversion" sets a dangerous precedent.

Quote:
- 3:24.558: Yes.
I don't know what this means but I hope it's a good thing.
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Old 11-16-2019, 11:05 AM   #23
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Default Re: 2019 September/October Set 5

Quote:
Hmm, I can't quite level with this only because of the pattern that is used for the mini-jacks themselves. If you're trying to consolidate pattern usage due to speed and only leverage the mini-jacks when it's two notes, perhaps the happy medium is to put the notes for the jump-jacks on the same hand. These split-handed mini-jacks are really jarring for a sound that occurs earlier at a higher frequency.
I'll go with making those one hand jumpjacks. Originally the goal was to keep the kicks as close as possible to [23] in each instance, but I already did make a compromise with 5.741/14.017 anyway.

Quote:
I'm not quite following what you're referring to as the "actual 48th swing" in this case. I'm hearing the 16ths for the background chip, 8ths for the main melody whose sustain seems to be an oscillation of 64th notes (but this is too minor of a detail at this tempo to accent reliably), and percussion also lies on 16th notes as well. Aside from trying to pull an additional accent, I'm not quite following where 48th notes would be utilizable at all in this case.
Quoting Aquellex because I wasn't sure myself when I first stepped it and asked them: "there's 4 swung 48ths starting on the 16th sandwiched between the 8ths" which I assume is what you are referring to as 64ths due to offset. Regardless of the actual rhythm, those where included more to acknowledge that there is in fact a faster rhythm going on and cyan is the Aquellex color (:
Either way in retrospect I agree that it'd be more natural for a player to connect those to the leading melody as it is, so I'll look over either removing or changing their patterning.

Quote:
The section itself has some pretty abrasive transitioning and also features polyrhythmic structures at points - it'll be everything but autopilot, I'd like to think
I was referring to the handstream in itself, the polys were also part of making it not autopilot.

Quote:
While I understand your sentiment, I don't like the idea of saying "yes" to this simply because it converts well as this would be a point that I would be mentioning if it were played somewhere like Etterna/osu!mania as well. This split-handed jumptrill colliding into a mini-jack that is controlled entirely on one hand in a section that's relatively isolated feels problematic to me, and suddenly saying "yes, this is ok because of conversion" sets a dangerous precedent.
I'd totally disagree if you were to bring up in a Etterna/o!m context but anyway, ultimately it doesn't really matter and I'll just change it.
With the 16ths 64~65ms apart at 232bpm the chance of getting a 1-framer is between 2.5~4% which I think is fair to assume a few minijacks will be converted as 2-framers which are practically the same as 232bpm minijacks when actually playing.

Quote:
I don't know what this means but I hope it's a good thing.
Sorry, I was just agreeing with what you said.
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Old 11-16-2019, 01:07 PM   #24
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Default Re: 2019 September/October Set 5

- 13.930: I can see the PR in this sequence, but the repeated left arrow looks a little strange given that the same melodic repeat/pattern deviation at 15.219 doesnít carry that; percussion is all the same too, so thatís slightly anomalous

Fixed

- 14.731: for more accuracy, pitch bend should be accented by placing the 48th after, not before

Fixed

- 16.508: not the same note as 16.274 - moving it to a [D] will remove the strange repeated note and gave you better PR overall

Nice one, fixed

- 17.094/18.031: missing jump for snare (you do this earlier)

Had to recheck if I really wanted these, decided yes now haha

- 18.500: oof, thatís a nasty (albeit brief spike). Technically accurate with your layering scheme, though it might look a bit better accent-wise to make 18.735/19.203 doubles instead of triples, since the other two notes actually have cymbal crashes on them.

Agreed, fixed

- 19.613: sound is quite subtle to force this jarring of a motion and actually isnít a repeated sample, might be nicer to break the mini-jack here

Moved the 16th to (4)

- 20.375 to 27.875: trying clearing up your layering/structure a bit to give maximal accenting towards the repeating notes in the melody - it looks a bit cluttered because some instances of repeated notes are very easily spotted (21.078, 22.719, 24.828, 26.469), and others are a bit ambiguous (21.899, 22.133, 23.188, etc)

That was a hard fix oof, I think I did ok changing things around, lemme know

- 27.875 to 31.391: jumps are a little ambiguous here too - I understand the deliberate omission of the snares in the structure and giving emphasis to the kicks, but some other jumps seem a bit out of place (are you following the ďhey!Ē vocal?)

Fixed, the jumps now go to all basskicks and snares, and adapted ~PR~ for those (not following "hey" there)

- 40.063 to 52.063 -> 52.063 to 1:05.616: I love the first half of this section for sure; fits the grungy hard feel of the song and is brutally layered; however, the second half of this is so underwhelming for a section that still contains what you were following earlier on with such aggressive layering - I understand not wanting to make things messy, but it might be more cohesive if you find a way to incorporate that aggressive layering when the 24ths arenít being played so that it feels like itís a better part of that section

Ok this is Very oof. I triiiiiied, but man it's hard to not make things weird af to hit there...

- as a note: that second half solid in terms of PR, rhythms and layering in current state, itís just very underlayered compared to the previous section is all

See above. In any case, I hope that if you dont really like the fix we can either keep the underwhelming version for those or you can provide some suggestions. I did my best, and sent it to Samurai for double check.

- 1:05.616: I actually really like this transition into the next section; itís visually memorable, super jarring, and just fits to get back into the swing of things, kudos

Thanks !

- 1:09.483: unlike earlier at 14.731, the pitch bends into the note and not out of it, therefore the 48ths should come before the actual rhythm in this case; also - switching the triple at 1:09.366 in a way that allows you to make this flam at 1:09.483 a [u]/[R] will give you a complete pitch relevance for that little phrase which is always nice

Nope, they definitely are fine there; yes the pitch bends into them but the actual rhythm is correct (i.e. bends into the 48ths, you can clearly hear it at 20-10%). Did fix the PR though.

- 1:14.054 to 1:28.819: so, normally Iíd knock you for a pattern structure like this when the melody returns ó however, with the addition of the repeating vocal sample, that ďbouncebackĒ pattern between hands just feels so right to play through in that section that I canít really find it in me to penalize for it. It feels great to play and is appropriately interrupted with the sample stops - instead of being a detriment to the file through improper relevance to other elements, it becomes a memorable section.

Props to Samurai for the base beat there, I agree it's really fun even though it's less accurate

- 1:46.632: move this to a different jump so you donít have two [LD] jumps representing two different percussive elements

Fixed along with some other small variety added in that section

- 2:48.733: totally not a big deal here, but Iíd totally make this a quad, itís a super jarring interruption to what is otherwise a very soft section, haha

Done, it's a nice meme sound lmao, does deserve a meme quad

- 2:51.296: I like the repeating jack motif that shows up here like I do at 1:14.054; however, you might be hitting the point at which players are feeling like the song is getting a bit repetitive since they heard this exact melody a minute ago and brief portions of it are direct copy/paste (2:54.811 to 2:57.507/3:01.960 to 3:03.366 and 3:04.421 to 3:05.421); perhaps the patterning can be switched to be a bit different (maybe [LU]/[DR] for the jumps?)

Idk, I really enjoy the [12]'s and [34]'s personally and to me it gives a break from the less appealing splitjumps; not changing this

- 3:11.393: missing note (you accent this at 3:11.862)

Fixed

- 3:16.843: aaaaa, ok - I hear what youíre following here, but think about the motion that has to be played to accent this barely audible thing; this is a bit too jarring

Changed to 24ths

- 3:19.538: missing jump for melody?

Yep, fixed

- 3:26.746: might be a little rough at 265 BPM to do anything other than 3-note splitsÖ

Fixed

- despite how long the notes are for this, this chart is actually quite solid! There are a lot of places where things can be polished up and approached a bit more effectively, but I can see this file being accepted as is, personally.

Thanks, I appreciate !
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Old 11-16-2019, 01:58 PM   #25
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Default Re: 2019 September/October Set 5

Ok, fixes were uploaded. Should be good now
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Old 11-17-2019, 10:04 PM   #26
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Default Re: 2019 September/October Set 5

Regarding Little Devil:
>> 8.843: given that this is a second instance of a note that plays at a similar volume, it would be a bit more accurate to have it either on L or R
fixed

>> 34.499: shaky pitch relevance here
addressed this and some other PR concerns. in particular the areas I adjusted are 31.370, 48.433 (flipped direction of stream), 1:41.384, 2:19.580, 2:30.243, and 2:57.674

>> 52.203: a little disappointed to not see accents for those grace notes, but all things considered this section works as is
hmmm... i see what you mean, but i think i'd rather keep it as is

>> 1:39.334: given that big color burst immediately before this, not having anything for arguably the most jarring sound here is a bit strange
yes, i definitely agree, fixed--honestly i mostly just had a hard time figuring out something to put there that wouldn't be really stupid lol

>> 2:44.189: those 24ths you had for the violin could also be put here as well
nice, fixed!


On top of that I also made some miscellaneous changes:
- 27.964: fixed a missing grace note (was a jump)
- 54.171: 16ths now start on 2 instead of 1 - flows much more nicely
- 1:04.474: fixed missing note

Thanks for the notes!!


edit: also the transition out of the roll at the start converted hilariously, omg... that's gonna be a killer lmao
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:38 AM   #27
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Default Re: 2019 September/October Set 5

Quote:
- 5.493 + 5.727/7.368 + 7.602 (etc): these triples accent the same melodic note + backing instrument, so having them change like this feels a bit strange
- 10.180: making this a [123] triple will break away from the [4] an eighth note before/after for better pitch relevance as well
I changed these up, I mostly had the thought that I didn't want 3-note jacks but they also don't need to be jacks either.

Quote:
- 8.891/9.126: these two pitch bent notes are different musically and are separated by a single note, which gives you no real excuse to not properly apply some pitch relevance
I only noticed it because you pointed it out honestly.

Quote:
- 13.051: remove 16th and place at 13.169
- 14.458: there may be a 16th note here for the melody as well, a little tougher to hear though
- 15.454: move this to [2] for better relevance
- 16.919: missing note
Done, not done, done, and done. I don't really hear a 16th at 14.458 so I'm not going to make a change on that.

Quote:
- 20.727 to 24.243: layering here is a bit confusing; 20.727, 20.962, and 21.196 all have jumps, but the third jump doesnít have two instruments landing at the same time and if theyíre all supposed to accent percussion, then thereís numerous jumps missing afterward. Furthermore, if theyíre following that synthesized vocal sample, then youíre also missing a jump at 21.665. All in all, fix the layering here.
Yeah, this part definitely needed some fixes but I wasn't sure what to do with it.

Quote:
- 30.337: move to [4], to make it a [4] -> [1] -> [2] -> [3] ascension
- 32.641: personally think this note should be removed - the two offset 32nd notes are fine, though
Done and done.

Quote:
- 41.305: patterning should be changed to give this guitar wail a one-handed trill like you do earlier at 35.305; if you feel the accenting isnít strong enough, then a brief color gimmick could give attention to that wail and can be applied to both
- 44.680 to 56.680: in general, it feels like there are some missing jumps. The layering scheme seems to toss the faster melody on top of the percussion, but there are single notes that fall in situations where the melody and percussion play at the same time; it doesnít feel like accented layering because numerous kicks are isolated to single notes as well
Fixed the patterning on the guitar wail, and cleaned up the layering to focus more on the percussion.

Quote:
- 1:00.109/1:01.984: these BPM changes are unnecessary; the kicks shifting from once a beat to once every 1.5 beats every other measures doesnít clearly signify any sort of pace changing and the musicís intensity arguably doesnít change enough for these BPM cuts
- 1:01.984: additionally, the 32nds here definitely donít feel right - theyíre pitch bent notes and you handled them in a different way at the start of the song, in a way that was pretty neat - could be a nice little interruption using similar pitch-relevant flams like you did the first time
The 32nds match the same background percussion as 1:00.109, I wasn't intending for them to be flams. The bpm changes also were more for gimmicking the cutoff from the screaming as a tiny cute detail.

Quote:
- 1:06.086: noticeably incorrect PR
Changed it a lil bit so it's more appropriate.

Quote:
- 1:12.178: missing jump, remove jump at 1:12.531 and 1:13.000, etc. Check your melodic representation; some jumps are missing and others do not belong where they are - the tail end of the phrase seems to have a lot of jumps added for kicks but thereís no representation of jumps for kicks earlier on in the phrase so it feels a bit strange as a layering boost, etc.
Fixed it up a bit, now the layering is more consistent and less messy at the end of the first phrase of the chorus.

Quote:
- 1:26.359 to 1:30.109: another section where layering is not the most pronounced - if this is intended to be a break down, then directly layering the percussion with the melody will keep the layering reasonably light
The layering here is a bit more concise now.

Quote:
- 1:31.281/etc: the blips in section should be 24ths - you may want to adjust your layering as things get faster, though
- 1:45.156/1:50.110: change this to a [12][34][12] to keep the difficulty spike manageable, this will kill off AAA runs for a chart whose difficulty was relatively tame through this point for players that are able to handle much higher than the stuff beforehand
Fixed the jumptrills. I was concerned about how doing the 24th blips would affect the file but checking the conversion it looks like at worst it would use a small frame fix.
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Old 11-19-2019, 07:24 PM   #28
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Default Re: 2019 September/October Set 5

i have updated the symphonies of suckness file
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:12 PM   #29
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Default Re: 2019 September/October Set 5

legitimately need to redownload mondo brutale, as the only version i have on my pc is the nerfed version rofl
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