Old 07-9-2018, 07:47 PM   #61
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Default Re: How Do Songs Get Labeled There Level?

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The thing about crowdpleaser is it's easy except there's parts that are nearly impossible cause notes overlap and such (my explaining is probabaly wrong but good enough imo) so it's rated 0, idk i guess he's using it as an example because it's so weird, the easy part is effortless and the hard part is unrateable etc

Tbh it's not that good of an example I'd say skeletor or something would be a better one but idk
I used it as an example because they will think its "easier" than a 41 or whatever. because they wount be going for a good score on it and just passing which is fairly simple.
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Old 07-9-2018, 07:49 PM   #62
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Default Re: How Do Songs Get Labeled There Level?

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Anyways

I got my answer and left some suggestions

thanks all
edit: potasium requested the thread reopened.
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Old 07-9-2018, 07:49 PM   #63
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Default Re: How Do Songs Get Labeled There Level?

Examples -

This will be the day, follow you, and your lies

I think all three of these have patterns that far outweigh the songs around them in complexity.

This being said, I think they're only 4-5 points low, nothing major. Most of the time, they are pretty close.
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Old 07-9-2018, 08:50 PM   #64
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Default Re: How Do Songs Get Labeled There Level?

When the difficulty scale went from 1-99 to 1-120 there were three people who were heading the goal of reevaluating each file to adjust accordingly to the shift up. That finalized back near Oct 16th, 2016.

From what I notice, we are at a point where files are constantly being tossed into consideration for a reevaluation on their rating and there's a number of reasons why, and some of the reasons are outlined such as what type of patterns, what speed, etc. The thing is though, you cannot compare Etterna to FFR when it comes to difficulty because FFR is based on AAA Equiv and difficulty. To be honest, some of the ratings I made are questionable and it's absolutely fair to call those out to be fixed, however with some distinctions it can be tricky at times.

I feel like the "meta" so-to-speak is changing rather rapidly when it comes to the average skill of players nowadays compared to back then and the skill ceiling just continues to be raised to the extent that the ratings for charts should be inspected in a timely fashion (say every two months, as an example). This was something that was in consideration when the scale was changed.
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Old 07-9-2018, 10:52 PM   #65
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Default Re: How Do Songs Get Labeled There Level?

There are objective factors that count toward a song's difficulty consideration, and I'd say that this list is ordered by heaviest impact to lightest:

*The difficulty of the most challenging pattern or section
*The location in the song of the most challenging pattern or section
*BPM and note density (average NPS)
*Song length
*Patterning (see: Beyond the Universe, Thunder Light, Starlight [Macgravel])
*Stamina considerations
*Hand bias
*Flow

It's hard for an algorithm to accurately weigh all these factors and come up with a satisfactory difficulty rating every time. This is why we do it manually for now.
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Old 07-9-2018, 10:56 PM   #66
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Default Re: How Do Songs Get Labeled There Level?

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Originally Posted by rushyrulz View Post
There are objective factors that count toward a song's difficulty consideration, and I'd say that this list is ordered by heaviest impact to lightest:

*The difficulty of the most challenging pattern or section
*The location in the song of the most challenging pattern or section
*BPM and note density (average NPS)
*Song length
*Patterning (see: Beyond the Universe, Thunder Light, Starlight [Macgravel])
*Stamina considerations
*Hand bias
*Flow

It's hard for an algorithm to accurately weigh all these factors and come up with a satisfactory difficulty rating every time. This is why we do it manually for now.
Only those that I bolded are objective and mathematically defined afaik. I'd like to know how you'd define the rest in a non-subjective manner.
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:04 AM   #67
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Default Re: How Do Songs Get Labeled There Level?

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Originally Posted by komochii View Post
If the first song has that spike at the very beginning and the other song has it at the very end, the one that has it at the ending is going to be rated higher, even if the patterns are the same difficulty
I think this is false?
I'm not sure but I don't think ranking things on where the difficult patterns are is a thing.
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:28 AM   #68
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Default Re: How Do Songs Get Labeled There Level?

I think it does, my logic is, it's harder to hit that hard thing after being consistent on the first part cause nerves etc than it is to be able to constantly restart on a hard part then have to hit an easy part, but nerves can make that just as bad so idk it's more of the annoyance of having to play thru minutes to get rekt that makes it harder I guess
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:03 AM   #69
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Default Re: How Do Songs Get Labeled There Level?

Songs with spikes at the beginning tend to get an easier rating than songs with spikes at the end. I think 'Addict' was a good example of this, iirc. If that trill thing was at the end, it probably be 2-3 points higher. Being able to restart right away on it gives the chart much higher scores than if it was at the end.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:23 AM   #70
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Default Re: How Do Songs Get Labeled There Level?

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I think it does, my logic is, it's harder to hit that hard thing after being consistent on the first part cause nerves etc than it is to be able to constantly restart on a hard part then have to hit an easy part, but nerves can make that just as bad so idk it's more of the annoyance of having to play thru minutes to get rekt that makes it harder I guess
Nerves and personal situations like that are not considered into difficulty. Things like that don't have a place with rating its difficulty because it isn't a part of the chart itself.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:29 AM   #71
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Default Re: How Do Songs Get Labeled There Level?

nerves and the rush of AAAing something are like, the best part of FFR tho ;-;

edit: its a stretch of a situation but imagine death piano started with the long 32nd trill, you gotta admit the file would probably be a bit easier to AAA lol

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Old 07-10-2018, 12:02 PM   #72
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Default Re: How Do Songs Get Labeled There Level?

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nerves and the rush of AAAing something are like, the best part of FFR tho ;-;

edit: its a stretch of a situation but imagine death piano started with the long 32nd trill, you gotta admit the file would probably be a bit easier to AAA lol
Yeah it's arguable that a situation like that is easier in terms of AAA difficulty because you don't have the whole file in front of you to deal with before getting to that section that will potentially ruin your score whereas at the start you would be able to efficiently grind at it until you pass the section with an AAA.

But it is those "stretch of a situation" that we tend to avoid the ambiguity that follows. I would say something along those lines is an afterthought in consideration instead of the main focus of judging the chart.

rip Rob, he was always better at explaining what we meant or anything difficulty related.
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Old 07-10-2018, 12:20 PM   #73
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Default Re: How Do Songs Get Labeled There Level?

If you want to quantify stamina difficulty, I believe it is necessary to account for the position of the hard parts. When taken to the extreme you can clearly see that it makes sense: a 1h long file with the first 10 minutes being twice as fast as the rest will always be easier than a 1h long file with the last 10 minutes being twice as fast. The challenge is to find a non arbitrary factor for it.
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:43 PM   #74
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Default Re: How Do Songs Get Labeled There Level?

Well not in terms of stamina, but in large spikes at the end of files, I think Sis Puella Magica and Dubstepic Symphony are great examples of large spikes at the end of charts. It makes them very difficult to judge.

Magica is like a 49-50 until the ending jumps with mini-jacks in them, and dubstepic has a random 32nd note burst at the end WAY above the rest of the file. I think these types of spike passages may have been rejected from batches long ago, but are generally accepted now as long as it fits musically. Just a shift in mentality as I see it.

Nonetheless, it makes it very tough to give it a rating. IMO, they are harder to AAA than the other songs of their difficulty.
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