Old 11-14-2017, 12:19 PM   #1
drakethelegend
FFR Player
 
drakethelegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 137
Default Does one average not let you have an FC?

2 or 3 times now completed a song and had just one Average, and I didn't get the FC.

Is an FC require Goods or better?
__________________
I love philosophy. It's really my Nietzsche.
drakethelegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 01:06 PM   #2
woker-X
.... :.. .:. ::
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
woker-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 995
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

You also need to beat your best raw score for your FC to register.
woker-X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 01:56 PM   #3
drakethelegend
FFR Player
 
drakethelegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 137
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by woker-X View Post
You also need to beat your best raw score for your FC to register.
So no averages, and you need to beat your RAW score? What does that mean?
__________________
I love philosophy. It's really my Nietzsche.
drakethelegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 02:14 PM   #4
Moria
a friend
FFR Veteran
 
Moria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southeast
Age: 31
Posts: 95
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...sub=Zapmeister

This is Zap, he mashes. has 100s of averages on most songs he plays. Just to reassure you that your averages have no bearing on whether or not it is an FC.

You only need 0 misses for it to count. Though it won't count unless it's an improvement. : )

Last edited by Moria; 11-14-2017 at 02:14 PM..
Moria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 02:25 PM   #5
drakethelegend
FFR Player
 
drakethelegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 137
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moria View Post
http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...sub=Zapmeister

This is Zap, he mashes. has 100s of averages on most songs he plays. Just to reassure you that your averages have no bearing on whether or not it is an FC.

You only need 0 misses for it to count. Though it won't count unless it's an improvement. : )
Ugh, I don't get it. So averages are okay, it just has to have no misses and has to "be an improvement"?

I have been doing improvements...? Do you mean it has to have less goods than last time, etc.?

Wouldn't the first time I FC'ed it be an improvement?
__________________
I love philosophy. It's really my Nietzsche.
drakethelegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 02:29 PM   #6
TheSaxRunner05
The Doctor
FFR Veteran
 
TheSaxRunner05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 28
Posts: 5,429
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

For improvement, it has to be a better Raw score, the five or six digit score
__________________

TheSaxRunner05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 02:56 PM   #7
Moria
a friend
FFR Veteran
 
Moria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southeast
Age: 31
Posts: 95
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

iirc raw score values are

50pts for every Perfect
25pts for every Good
5pts for every Average
-10pts for every Miss
-5pts for every Boo
Moria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 03:01 PM   #8
drakethelegend
FFR Player
 
drakethelegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 137
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moria View Post
iirc raw score values are

50pts for every Perfect
25pts for every Good
5pts for every Average
-10pts for every Miss
-5pts for every Boo
Oh okay, that makes sense, thank you! I did the match again a few times and got one average (again lol) but I must have gotten more Goods, because I finally got the FC, lol. Thanks!
__________________
I love philosophy. It's really my Nietzsche.
drakethelegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 03:07 PM   #9
Moria
a friend
FFR Veteran
 
Moria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southeast
Age: 31
Posts: 95
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

No worries, the easiest way to notice whether or not you improved is to just look at the raw goods (its just any deviation from a AAA expressed as goods)
it's in the middle column; the closer to zero, the better

Last edited by Moria; 11-14-2017 at 03:08 PM..
Moria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 03:42 PM   #10
rushyrulz
Digital Dancing!
Event StaffFFR Simfile AuthorFFR Music ProducerFFR Veteran
 
rushyrulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 66 billion club, NE
Age: 25
Posts: 11,649
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moria View Post
iirc raw score values are
...
-10pts for every Miss
More realistically, a miss is either -15, -35, or -60 since you could have gotten an average, good, or perfect instead of missing. So not only are you penalized with negative points for missing, but you're penalized by the points you missed out on by not hitting the arrow.
__________________


Last edited by rushyrulz; 11-14-2017 at 03:44 PM..
rushyrulz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 03:47 PM   #11
rayword45
Local Teenage Wastebasket
D7 Elite KeysmasherFFR Veteran
 
rayword45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: My bed
Age: 20
Posts: 1,818
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

In that case think of it as

-25pts for every Good
-45pts for every Average
-60pts for every Miss
-5pts for every Boo
__________________
The above post has a 50% chance of being useless. Potentially. Maybe.

BEST AAAs: WANDERLUST, Pandora, Necropotence, Mourning The Lost, Eradication, Feldschlacht

Hey, we need some users on this site. Please join.

And if you have not recommended any albums yet, do so. Please. I have a goal to reach. Here.
NO WAIT THAT SHIT'S OLD GO HERE INSTEAD.
rayword45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 03:58 PM   #12
rushyrulz
Digital Dancing!
Event StaffFFR Simfile AuthorFFR Music ProducerFFR Veteran
 
rushyrulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 66 billion club, NE
Age: 25
Posts: 11,649
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

imean you technically could, but the only deceiving value in the raw score calculation is misses.
__________________

rushyrulz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 04:07 PM   #13
Dinglesberry
Always tired~
FFR Veteran
 
Dinglesberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,194
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moria View Post
iirc raw score values are

50pts for every Perfect
25pts for every Good
5pts for every Average
-10pts for every Miss
-5pts for every Boo
-o24 points for every bob

-o24
Dinglesberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 09:06 PM   #14
MinaciousGrace
FFR Player
D7 Elite Keysmasher
 
MinaciousGrace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nima
Posts: 4,154
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

you know at a certain point after years of this question being asked one might begin to wonder if the current system is perhaps designed badly
__________________
sometimes stepmania
MinaciousGrace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 09:17 PM   #15
rushyrulz
Digital Dancing!
Event StaffFFR Simfile AuthorFFR Music ProducerFFR Veteran
 
rushyrulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 66 billion club, NE
Age: 25
Posts: 11,649
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

itis
__________________

rushyrulz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 11:12 PM   #16
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
Global ModeratorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 33
Posts: 9,425
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

The game was built with the emphasis on combo, and the assumption was literally ANY FC was going to be a better overall score than a non FC unless your 1 miss was like in the first or last 10 notes because of that multiplier.

Now with so much scoring done off raw score, there's not even a good reason to count FCs as a stat. They could literally just keep the AAA bar, and replace the FC bar with something that just looked for a raw score over a certain point for the song. Like, even something low like 60% of the max score possible, and count that as a thing to fill a bar.

Like how you can actually get to T1 now just by passing songs without needing to do even vaguely well on them, measure "You did pretty solidly on that" by looking at raw score instead of this weird disconnect where a bad FC scores worse than a good nonFC
devonin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2017, 12:16 AM   #17
RenegadeLucien
FFR Player
Developer
 
RenegadeLucien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 21
Posts: 196
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

Or the FC bar could be replaced with a SDG bar
__________________


Zenith Ultimate Struggle: 3rd (D2)

All public 1-36s AAA'd
RenegadeLucien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2017, 01:20 AM   #18
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
Global ModeratorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 33
Posts: 9,425
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

For the VAST majority of users, an SDG is basically the same as a AAA.

The level at which an SDG is like...-very- different from a AAA is very high and very small.
devonin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2017, 03:37 AM   #19
rushyrulz
Digital Dancing!
Event StaffFFR Simfile AuthorFFR Music ProducerFFR Veteran
 
rushyrulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 66 billion club, NE
Age: 25
Posts: 11,649
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by devonin View Post
Now with so much scoring done off raw score, there's not even a good reason to count FCs as a stat.
I disagree.

FCing is the first major goal (aside from passing) a large quantity of players gravitate to. The concept of full comboing didn't originate from FFR, nor is FFR the most prominent example of a game including it as an objective. So while, it may actually be meaningless when it comes to scoring in this particular game, I think it should still hold some significance by at least being recognized. Because of this, removing FCs entirely from the game wouldn't induce an out of sight, out of mind effect, but instead make it feel like something is missing, even though FCs really do have absolutely no significance outside of token unlocks in this game anymore.

When you grind away at a song for 30 minutes trying your hardest to hit every note without missing, finally get it, but notice the game didn't give you the two bold, green letters next to the title in song select that you were after simply because you got 3 goods too many on the FC run, it feels unfair and like you've been cheated. I've been a noob, you've been a noob, we've all been noobs and know the feeling of satisfaction from achieving a goal like this, however small, and yes, insignificant. (My grind it til' you get it song was Beethoven Virus btw, and it took a LOT longer than 30 minutes...).

I've been advocating for 'the FC flag' for years now, and it never has gotten off the ground. I don't think it would be hard to implement (since flags for FC, SDG, AAA, etc are already implemented, and a change in how these are reported/recorded would probably be all that is necessary), and it would only help the game, or at least not hurt it. If not for anything else, but to prevent the countless number of threads like these that have come up in the past from continuing to appear in the future.

/rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by devonin View Post
For the VAST majority of users, an SDG is basically the same as a AAA.

The level at which an SDG is like...-very- different from a AAA is very high and very small.
And it is the players outside of this small window that care about FCing above all else. Being a frequent viewer of newer players' livestreams, full comboing is a very prominent topic.

EDIT: tl;dr: A lot of people truly care about FCing as an objective in this game and others like it, so removing them as a stat probably isn't in our best interest.
__________________


Last edited by rushyrulz; 11-15-2017 at 03:45 AM..
rushyrulz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2017, 03:44 AM   #20
One Winged Angel
Anime Avatars ( ◜◡^)っ✂╰⋃╯
Retired StaffFFR Simfile AuthorD7 Elite KeysmasherFFR Veteran
 
One Winged Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Squat Rack
Age: 27
Posts: 10,494
Send a message via Skype™ to One Winged Angel
Default Re: Does one average not let you have an FC?

yeah I remember having a convo with either velo or max many many moons ago regarding the FC bar recognizing that a chart has been FC'd regardless of whether the score is your current best...whoever I was talking to made it seem like that would eventually be added

probably was forgotten about with other updates coming out (this was pre-skill rating so that was likely the main project at the time)

harass them again ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)

Quote:
Originally Posted by devonin View Post
For the VAST majority of users, an SDG is basically the same as a AAA.

The level at which an SDG is like...-very- different from a AAA is very high and very small.
honestly I could argue that the vast majority of users don't even know what SDGs and AAAs are, and/or don't care too much for measuring these statistics to begin with...once a player hits roughly D3 (which has been demonstrated time and time again by thousands of players to not require massive time investment if you're serious about improving), it's an important enough statistic to warrant measuring and tracking, and is definitely discernible at this skill level as quite different from both an ordinary FC that has no accuracy restrictions outside of zero misses and a perfect score

I'm pretty sure during the same conversation with whichever admin, I had also mentioned an SDG bar should be added with the advent of raw scoring and they were also receptive to the idea
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikexd View Post
i want to be cucked by cirno

Last edited by One Winged Angel; 11-15-2017 at 03:55 AM..
One Winged Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright FlashFlashRevolution