Old 08-19-2017, 08:13 PM   #21
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Default Re: interesting punch force comparison

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no, bench press still has a huge correlation
Huge compared to what ? Playing ffr ? Please elaborate.
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Old 08-28-2017, 11:37 PM   #22
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Default Re: interesting punch force comparison

I'd rather get punched by the guy at 1:34 instead of 1:05 in OP's video haha. Seems like any change in height during the punch greatly reduces the force read by the machine
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:49 PM   #23
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Default Re: interesting punch force comparison

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You can curl a dumbbell all day and get strong arms, but there's no exercise to strengthen the defensive aspect. The skull bone will still be less than a centimeter thick. Would you walk across a 1cm thick bridge?
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Old 08-29-2017, 02:04 PM   #24
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Default Re: interesting punch force comparison

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Huge compared to what ? Playing ffr ? Please elaborate.
The average correlation between bench and punch force in that study is around .731, meaning that 53% of the variance in punch force can be accounted for by 1 RM Bench Press.

That is a very significant correlation in and of itself, you don't need to compare it to anything else to recognize that it is significant.

Though given that all of the correlations in that study are very large and in the same range, a simple interpretation is to assume a factor analysis would reveal a single underlying variable that accounts for the majority of the variance in all of those measurements. You could call that the general strength factor, which is just a statistical way of saying that if you take any reliable measurement of someones strength, it will be highly predictive of their punch force (and if those correlations are in any way accurate and reliable, strength would be the single largest predictive variable of punch force).
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:35 PM   #25
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Default Re: interesting punch force comparison

I feel like questioning correlation between upper-body strength and the force it can produce is kind if unnecessary

This is fun to read though
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:09 PM   #26
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Default Re: interesting punch force comparison

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I feel like questioning correlation between upper-body strength and the force it can produce is kind if unnecessary
yes and no

it's not necessary for people who have trained bench to any major degree. it becomes obvious past a certain point.

it's necessary for the general public who thinks bruce lee can defeat the mountain with his fingers or something
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:38 PM   #27
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Default Re: interesting punch force comparison

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The average correlation between bench and punch force in that study is around .731, meaning that 53% of the variance in punch force can be accounted for by 1 RM Bench Press.

That is a very significant correlation in and of itself, you don't need to compare it to anything else to recognize that it is significant.

Though given that all of the correlations in that study are very large and in the same range, a simple interpretation is to assume a factor analysis would reveal a single underlying variable that accounts for the majority of the variance in all of those measurements. You could call that the general strength factor, which is just a statistical way of saying that if you take any reliable measurement of someones strength, it will be highly predictive of their punch force (and if those correlations are in any way accurate and reliable, strength would be the single largest predictive variable of punch force).
Solely based on experience (15years of martial arts) I have only rarely seen someone big throw a stronger punch than someone relatively smaller (talking about body and muscle size here) with better technique. That being said, the studies linked in this thread are only about raw strength and doesn't show how much punch training the people have.

Now your point; you say there'd be a common factor to strength... Like what, their muscle fibers size ? You'd probably be right. But thing is, if A, B and C have a common factor F, and D needs all three to happen, then there's nothing special about neither A, B or C. (Say A is bench press 1RM, B is squats and C is abs strength, F is your factor (w/e it is) and D is output punch force for example).

You can say all you want about how bench press has strong correlation, cause it's true, but that's pretty intuitive and the fact that many other things/exercise have a correlation as strong or stronger than it makes it totally uninteresting.
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:47 PM   #28
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Default Re: interesting punch force comparison

i think it's simple enough to say that greater mass = greater force and higher strength is essentially your ability to move that mass at higher speeds
so it makes sense that someone who works out (bench increasing chest,shoulder mass + higher strength) would have a higher punch force
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Old 10-22-2017, 06:28 PM   #29
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Default Re: interesting punch force comparison

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Originally Posted by xXOpkillerXx View Post
Solely based on experience (15years of martial arts) I have only rarely seen someone big throw a stronger punch than someone relatively smaller (talking about body and muscle size here) with better technique. That being said, the studies linked in this thread are only about raw strength and doesn't show how much punch training the people have.

Now your point; you say there'd be a common factor to strength... Like what, their muscle fibers size ? You'd probably be right. But thing is, if A, B and C have a common factor F, and D needs all three to happen, then there's nothing special about neither A, B or C. (Say A is bench press 1RM, B is squats and C is abs strength, F is your factor (w/e it is) and D is output punch force for example).

You can say all you want about how bench press has strong correlation, cause it's true, but that's pretty intuitive and the fact that many other things/exercise have a correlation as strong or stronger than it makes it totally uninteresting.
Well, as a fellow martial artist, I would like to clarify the point I think you're trying to make; the difference between pure strength of the punch in terms of newtons of force vs how much the punch hurt. These studies only measure pure force, but technique can make two punches of the exact same force feel radically different, which is probably why the line gets quite blurry.

As for the common strength factor, it was just a guess I haven't done the factor analysis myself, but I would suspect that yes it's muscle fibre size. Given that measuring strength is an indirect measure of muscle fibre size and any given exercise will measure this to some extent, it would explain the data.

And I would argue it's actually a very interesting finding, even though it's obvious.

I would argue though that it's very interesting because of the size of the correlations. They're so significant that if the general factor between them is muscle fiber size (which I suspect it is), it would mean that if you wanted to improve athletic performance in any sport where force of impact is relevant, the single most important variable of the athlete you could improve would be muscle fiber size. Which is extraordinarily relevant in modern sports given the overwhelming amount of steroid abuse (or even...necessity?) happening among elite athletes. This is question at the core of many new sports e.g. crossfit, or MMA etc.
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Old 10-22-2017, 06:41 PM   #30
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Default Re: interesting punch force comparison

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Well, as a fellow martial artist, I would like to clarify the point I think you're trying to make; the difference between pure strength of the punch in terms of newtons of force vs how much the punch hurt. These studies only measure pure force, but technique can make two punches of the exact same force feel radically different, which is probably why the line gets quite blurry.

As for the common strength factor, it was just a guess I haven't done the factor analysis myself, but I would suspect that yes it's muscle fibre size. Given that measuring strength is an indirect measure of muscle fibre size and any given exercise will measure this to some extent, it would explain the data.

And I would argue it's actually a very interesting finding, even though it's obvious.

I would argue though that it's very interesting because of the size of the correlations. They're so significant that if the general factor between them is muscle fiber size (which I suspect it is), it would mean that if you wanted to improve athletic performance in any sport where force of impact is relevant, the single most important variable of the athlete you could improve would be muscle fiber size. Which is extraordinarily relevant in modern sports given the overwhelming amount of steroid abuse (or even...necessity?) happening among elite athletes. This is question at the core of many new sports e.g. crossfit, or MMA etc.
I can agree with this. Thx for taking the time to elaborate
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Old 10-23-2017, 01:16 AM   #31
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Default Re: interesting punch force comparison

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i think it's simple enough to say that greater mass = greater force and higher strength is essentially your ability to move that mass at higher speeds
so it makes sense that someone who works out (bench increasing chest,shoulder mass + higher strength) would have a higher punch force
I don't really know much about this subject, but I would think that this would be false. Bruce Lee had an incredible punch force and he was not very big at all.

Pretty sure he wasn't really benching regularly either.
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Old 10-23-2017, 01:25 AM   #32
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Default Re: interesting punch force comparison

exactly. Bruce Lee was ninjaku. like in FFR, timing, accuracy, and speed results in more points, more force. lee was renowned for doing 1 finger pushups. where the bench press is a great chest exercise, a pushup has more freedom of movement and can stimulate other key areas in the arm. very important when considering punches. punches are also limited to the amount of force the hand, wrist, forearms, elbow, and shoulder can withstand as well which is why I recommend using hand grips to strengthen hand, wrist, and forearms; and resistance bands to work elbows, triceps, biceps, and all that. ya never know when you might have to fight a grizzly bear or a tiger or something so ya gotta be ready.
these things are $8 a pair at wal-mart, $3 at the five below discount store and will increase your finger, hand, wrist, and forearm strength by 700%

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