Old 05-13-2017, 09:37 PM   #341
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perhaps the reason for this is because etterna isn't shiet
You saved me from saying this ty
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Old 05-14-2017, 05:26 AM   #342
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more stuff
i was pretty close to letting this slide tbh, but honestly your utter lack of understanding of the situation irritates me more than anything else at this point

Let me break this down clearly for you. This whole "hahaha sm5 is fucking shiet" thing isn't some "new development", it's been going on ever since sm5 existed. When the sm5 beta first began in 2008/9/10, whatever it was, keyboard players came to the repo to suggest things they wanted to see implemented into the game. Can we have x feature, y feature, the few things we thought were missing from 3.95 that would have the greatest positive impact on our gameplay experience. Waveform and filter support in the in-game editor. Better screenshot management capabilities or replays. A functional song search.

"Song search? Who needs song search when you have 25 different sort orders? Besides, how can anyone on an arcade cab use text based song search feature? What are they going to enter every letter by hitting arrow keys? Are they going to search strings of directional arrow inputs? LOL! Fucking dumbass ignorant keyboard players."

This was the kind of response we'd get from kyz. If it wasn't that, we were ignored. At best the things we wanted took ages to get implemented with no visible feedback, and when finally complete, they were either already obsolete or unwieldy to the point of uselessness. After a couple of years of this bullshit pretty soon the only feedback the kb community was giving sm5 was "hey can you make the game run as smooth as 3.95 because it really feels like shit in comparison and since you give us literally no features we care about there's no reason to use sm5".

"You dumbfuck ignorant kb players have no idea what you're talking about. You aren't even on the stepmania core development team. Stepmania is coded to absolute perfection. It's impossible to make it any better or faster and in fact it is objectively better and faster than 3.95 in every way you're just stupid and ignorant. Why do you need more than 60 fps anyway? Arcade cabinets don't need it why do you? You're not even developers just shut up and accept what we give you."

Again this was/is the typical response from your development team. The majority of the competitive kb scene just said fuck it. 3.95 it is. If an up and coming player had started on sm5? We literally felt sorry for them. It was literally a shame they started on the newer version of the game. I want you to stop and take a moment to just fucking process that.

Now of course you know what? People were beyond it. We didn't give any suggestions to the sm5 dev team. We didn't give any complaints. We just spent years playing on 3.95 minding our own goddamn business until lo, behold. Kyz decides it's time to come to our community. Make an inquiry, a legitimate one, to be fair, into why people in the keyboard community still use 3.95. When people voice the same concerns they have over the years he gives the same responses.

"You ignorant keyboard players. We can't make features that are keyboard only because how would pad use them? The game is literally coded to the best it can possibly be. In fact NASA should be using stepmania to do fluid dynamic simulations. The things you want don't matter you're all retarded for not using sm5 the game runs better than 3.95 fuck you all you're all shit you aren't developers or coders therefore I know better please play my game my life has no meaning if you don't."

So no. This isn't a fucking "new" thing. Your development team spent years dismissing/insulting the keyboard playing community and eroding any confidence or trust we had in you while simultaneously making the game completely fucking unplayable for us. And you don't get to pull the "that's kyz not me" bullshit. He was an official member of the core development team for years. He was a member of the core development team when he came to our community and fucking berated us for not using sm5 when nobody even cared about it anymore. And then you came in the aftermath and treated it like we were just some uppity W H I N Y B O Y S in some random little community that didn't fucking matter.

Yeah. Fuck you. That exact dismissive condescension is why you have no currency left with us. By allowing him to retain any "official" status you've made yourself complicit in everything he's said or done.

And you know what, it's one thing if you're right. It's one thing if indeed we were all just fucking morons and nothing we wanted was actually feasible and the game really was just coded to perfection and nothing could have been done about it, but it wasn't. Everything Kyz said was either born of complete and total ignorance or a fucking bald faced lie.

I had literally 0 minutes of any compiled language experience before I decided to download the repo, performance profile it and see how far I could get making adjustments. Within 20 hours I had more than tripled framerate. All this fuck-assery about the game being hyper-optimal was total fucking garbage. In fact my total hours spent on development in the last year probably doesn't even exceed 400 hours. So you don't get to use that "hahahah xDDDD IM SOOOO BUSY work!!! LOLOLOL I HAVE A LIFE LOSER EXCUSE ME IF I DONT SPEND MORE TIME DOING DEVELOPMENT WORK THAN GOING ON FORUMS AND DEFENDING THE GAME I DONT WORK ON LOL HAHAHA xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD" excuse either.

You spent the last 10 years making this bed. You let Kyz piss, shit, and cum on your not-even-nsfw body pillows the whole time. I don't care if he doesn't have commit access anymore. He's still listed as a stepmania dev team member on reddit. Kyz still tries to accuse of me of "stealing" code he wrote that is freely available on an open source project. He does go around to take every opportunity to shit on Etterna, and because he's still tagged as a dev, his words are your words. You ignored, insulted, looked down on and lashed out at us, sometimes simultaneously. And then it turned out you were all fucking full of shit.

So maybe now you can see where we, or at least I, am coming from. You don't get to come in here with this entirely unjustified holier-than-thou attitude and claim you're being treated unfairly. You don't get to whine about being "bagged on" by some "random little community in a corner pocket of the internet". No you're getting exactly what you deserve. And the funny thing? People don't call sm5 vanilla garbage in the context of kb play because we're buttmad about all the shit you gave us for the last 10 years.

People call it garbage, because compared to Etterna, it is.
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:27 AM   #343
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:40 AM   #344
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Default Re: The Etterna Project

Fucking destroyed. Savage isn't even a good enough word. And he's right, which makes it all that much better.
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Old 05-14-2017, 02:34 PM   #345
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Default Re: The Etterna Project

thanks for the love letter mina

edit/full disclosure: posts like this hurt a lot, tbh. I apologize for wrongdoings on my part and would prefer if things didn't stay this way.

that doesn't seem likely, so I'm gonna just stop posting. later guys

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Old 05-14-2017, 04:31 PM   #346
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stepmania
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Old 05-14-2017, 05:05 PM   #347
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thanks for the love letter mina

edit/full disclosure: posts like this hurt a lot, tbh. I apologize for wrongdoings on my part and would prefer if things didn't stay this way.

that doesn't seem likely, so I'm gonna just stop posting. later guys
then do something to change the status quo?????
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Old 05-14-2017, 08:29 PM   #348
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edit/full disclosure: posts like this hurt a lot, tbh. I apologize for wrongdoings on my part and would prefer if things didn't stay this way.
This has probably been a painful experience for you, although hopefully you have learned some important lessons about leadership and communication. Actions of every developer on the team represent the team as a whole, and it's important to tackle accountability issues early on.
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oh boy, it's STIFF, I'll stretch before I sit down at the computer so not I'm not as STIFF next time I step a file
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:30 PM   #349
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Default Re: The Etterna Project

*on a happier note*

I hope DP isn't fully removed, I (and I think others maybe probably) like the ability to see both Wife and DP, even if Wife is the "official" scoring.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:01 PM   #350
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nuking DP fully basically means youre saying that every score made on 3.9 is invalid which is iffy to me.

while id like to see wife be the primary scoring system imo DP shouldn't get erased altogether but my opinion has little value cause im bad

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Old 05-14-2017, 11:18 PM   #351
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Nah numbers are still there so you can calculate the etterna score out of them if you want to bother doing it
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:22 PM   #352
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I personally enjoy chord cohesion and DP scoring, a lot of players do not like that as it appears and I had no idea that was a generally bigger topic than I had initially thought it would be. It's probably fair to say that if you're not totally on board with what Mina is working on, you just won't 100% use the most current version and use something else, maybe an older version of the project or a vanilla stepmania version. Removal of chord cohesion and DP scoring I think is significant enough a change that it's straying away from what stepmania is, basically becoming its own game.

I'm fairly undecided, other than FFR i've not played a rhythm game without chord cohesion. It'll most likely be fine, I believe in Mina he's done so much good for this project I'm excited to see what it will look like ultimately in the end. Thank you Mina!
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:33 PM   #353
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^ Sums up my stance; majority of top players seem to be in favour of eliminating chord cohesion though, and that's what's relevant for development favour really.
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Old 05-17-2017, 02:54 PM   #354
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With what Mina claims Kyz to have done for Stepmania and what he has done for his fork compared to the vanilla build and Shakesoda's response and ragequit, this is absolutely depressing concerning the state of the community. I'm even more downtrodden by the fact that chord cohesion and the old scoring system isn't even going to be an option for the Etterna Project since vanilla has allegedly shit the bed.
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Old 05-17-2017, 03:34 PM   #355
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I don't think they've said they're getting rid of DP, and i'm pretty sure they're making CC toggleable. someone correct me if i'm wrong.
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Old 05-17-2017, 04:12 PM   #356
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nothing is stopping you from using an older version of etterna (i mean look at how long the majority of the community stuck to 3.95 when 4.0 and early sm5 builds were rolling out lol)
just as it was in the past, though, your choice to stick to an older version means that you miss out on newer developments
and also personally i'm pretty sure this attitude that core mechanics should not be changed if people are used to them is a significant part of why ffr died
Even if I'm going to use an older version of Etterna just for the old features, it's not gonna change the fact that I will inevitably encounter significant bugs that won't be fixed unless I give up those features in the process of updating. Just because you've had to deal with the buggy as hell 3.95 all this time is not an excuse for having others go through the same ordeal with Etterna.

Also, ffr is dead due to people not wanting change?
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:15 PM   #357
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remember when people argued that av-miss shouldn't be fixed
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:29 PM   #358
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Ffr isn't dead, if you want to see dead check keybeat, ffr still gets daily posts and is arguably active mainly through discord. I haven't heard from anyone ever that they quit the game/site because of change or lacktherof regarding the games mechanics.

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Old 05-17-2017, 07:27 PM   #359
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I just want to see the old features added in as options, but that's never gonna happen. I really thought Mina could make another thing like sm-ssc happen but his interests (and the community's) are clearly different from mine.

There are two more things I want to see and the first one is for a list of things that make Etterna different from vanilla besides wife and no chord cohesion. Mina claims to have optimized the engine so it runs much faster now so I want to know what other things he did. The second one is for the GitHub page to be changed to be more distinct from the vanilla one. Readme.md does not mention the wife or the lack of chord cohesion.
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:29 PM   #360
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you know not only is there extensive documentation in the release change logs on the github on exactly those subjects but those subjects have also been extensively discussed in this thread

i can do a lot of things but i can't read for you

as for 'old features' like dp you can literally just copy and paste the old scwh scripts in to add it back in if you really cared to, like i've already said

if people are literally going to kill themselves if they can't have an option to turn on chord cohesion again then i suppose i can still make it optional however any scores achieved with chord cohesion enabled will be

a) disconnected from the rating system and given a rating of 0 and any scores will produce ssr's of 0
b) given the above with necessarily be completely disconnected from the profile system
c) given the above will necessarily be completely disconnected from any leaderboard or rankings site
and unless the replay system is fundamentally reworked,
d) no replay data will be saved which means no offset plots and no rescoring

so basically you'd be voluntarily opting into scores incomparable with anyone else's that voids the majority of kb oriented features in the name of "having more options"

which, you might as well be playing sm5 at that point

as for presentation of documentation gonna be honest i dont really give a fuck and i dont really care about anyone that does either and i've never tried to hide that stance
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