FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas

[bmah]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

- Creating a managed database similar to resonance would help things as well -- the keyword being "managed" -- create a list of artists that we have permission for (or more specifically, update the one in the back-end of FMAP) and tie it to that database so that users cannot upload songs unless they are tagged with an artist that we have permissions to. Anyone abusing these privileges could have their accesses revoked. Players can more immediately receive critique from their charts, and because it's managed in a way where we have permission for the content, content might flow into the game a bit more quickly (why just send it to the database and keep it unscored when you can put it back in game and have people fight for ranks and whatnot?).

Hey, I like this idea. It can potentially tie into getting files into the FFR game itself more easily, but let's still distinguish the actual game from the database. I suppose I never thought of this before because I would've assumed such a database would be small and restricted. We have a lot of permissions now so it may not be a bad idea.

[rushyrulz]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

Actually since this is focused around new user experience there's another thing I've talked about for a long time.

The amount of files in game is super crazy over whelming to a new person. My thought for solving this would also basically be more achievements which it seems xeno talks about a lot and that's to have levels of songs separated and unlockable. Basically a new person starts with the lower level stuff (rather than everything in their face) let's just say 1-10 for the example. They have to pass x amount of these files in this range to unlock the next level of files. (Just a quick example this could be done a bunch of ways with FCs, AAAs so on)

Not a bad idea, but do we want to have osu!/SM transplants have to endure that to get to the good stuff?

I think the Dance Genre accomplishes this by way of a suggestion; it is the default genre when loading the engine and contains the most new-user friendly songs.

[Gundam-Dude]

I'm going to provide screenshots of the FFR homepage design/layout over the years below as a sort of user interface and design case study. Feel free to provide your input as well.

FFR from 2005–2006. Aside from the navigation bar and the lines of text along the left side, it's not clear for users where to click if they want to play FFR the game. No point in including the earlier layouts since they're relatively similar to this in terms of navigation.


FFR later on in 2006. Notice the "our games" section along the left side, which provides more of a clear direction to users where they can go to play FFR the game.


FFR in 2007. The buttons just underneath the navigation bar, although jarring in appearance, at least provide a clear indication on where users can click if they want to play FFR the game.


FFR in 2008. This was the template that laid out the foundations of the layout currently used today. Notice that the icons along the left side still provide a clear navigation to where they can click to play FFR the game. Also, that welcome flash being the first thing a user sees is extremely helpful to new visitors to the site. Overall, this was probably the most user-friendly layout out of everything.


Then at some point in 2011, someone had completely removed the list of "games to play" along the left side, as well as the welcome flash in favour of the current layout. Other than that small line of text in the navigation bar that reads "FFR the Game" (now currently named as "Play FFR"), there is no clearly visible point of navigation to play FFR the game. If you were to be looking at this homepage from a far away distance without being able to read the text, you would have absolutely no idea where to click if you want to play FFR the game.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

Not a bad idea, but do we want to have osu!/SM transplants have to endure that to get to the good stuff?

I think the Dance Genre accomplishes this by way of a suggestion; it is the default genre when loading the engine and contains the most new-user friendly songs.

It's not like I'm suggesting they have to go through every single file in that range, like I said pass x of such range. Which for most would be easy and quick coming from another game.

[PhantomPuppy]

if this were the case, would people who do not have an account setup have to unlock files as well? would the progress then save locally if they had to work towards unlocking files? if it saved to the account, they'd have to restart every time, and new players that just wanna play and not have to make an account would probably find it a hassle.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by PhantomPuppy

if this were the case, would people who do not have an account setup have to unlock files as well? would the progress then save locally if they had to work towards unlocking files? if it saved to the account, they'd have to restart every time, and new players that just wanna play and not have to make an account would probably find it a hassle.

Well I mean really the goal is to get people to sign up and engage, which this also could help with because it's like well you got a taste, want to play more sign up kind of deal. Someone who's not going to make an account is unlikely to stick around imo.

[PhantomPuppy]

fair enough. it would also eliminate a lot of alt accounts since more work just to get to the higher files.

(goodbye alt accounts, you will not be missed)

[Xenorosth]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

Actually since this is focused around new user experience there's another thing I've talked about for a long time.

The amount of files in game is super crazy over whelming to a new person. My thought for solving this would also basically be more achievements which it seems xeno talks about a lot and that's to have levels of songs separated and unlockable. Basically a new person starts with the lower level stuff (rather than everything in their face) let's just say 1-10 for the example. They have to pass x amount of these files in this range to unlock the next level of files. (Just a quick example this could be done a bunch of ways with FCs, AAAs so on)

I actually love this idea. Far more than any token system I have. This brings sort of a "progression" to the game that makes it more open. Lets be real, we have nearly 2k songs. That's nuts. While I wouldn't lower the range down to 10, and instead have it go up to 20-30, just so the game doesn't seem to have only easy songs for new players. Increase the percentages of songs available as the total number of games played, where games played is gated by a minimum score. After the initial limit of 1-30, show that it goes from 1-99 by introducing higher tier songs. The more games played, the more public songs they have access to. Best part about it? It can totally replace the stupid "secret song" with credit lock out. It's a currency, something to spend. Not something you should be worried about keeping in your bank.

And in fact, this brings up another major idea. Instead, have it so user accounts can buy "packs" of songs with credits instead. The larger the pack, the more expensive. I believe that when songs are released, they should be at least somewhat related. All public, all token, all shop, ect. It also makes it easier to manage difficulties, releasing a wider variety of songs.

As for guest users, I'm not sure, but cookies may be used to hold their data. But we'd rather them register and say hi anyway.

Game progression is key for newer players, and that is what I'm for. Not simply just tokens only. For anyone who makes the argument that the FC bar and the AAA bar are more appealing, well... I'm sorry to say, but it's down right terrifying. Even for me. It's literally, "I have to do not only play 1700 songs, but FC them too? That's BS."

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by PhantomPuppy

fair enough. it would also eliminate a lot of alt accounts since more work just to get to the higher files.

(goodbye alt accounts, you will not be missed)

Haha yeah, the level of alts is a bit crazy.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Xenorosth

I actually love this idea. Far more than any token system I have. This brings sort of a "progression" to the game that makes it more open. Lets be real, we have nearly 2k songs. That's nuts. While I wouldn't lower the range down to 10, and instead have it go up to 20-30, just so the game doesn't seem to have only easy songs for new players. Increase the percentages of songs available as the total number of games played, where games played is gated by a minimum score. After the initial limit of 1-30, show that it goes from 1-99 by introducing higher tier songs. The more games played, the more public songs they have access to. Best part about it? It can totally replace the stupid "secret song" with credit lock out. It's a currency, something to spend. Not something you should be worried about keeping in your bank.

And in fact, this brings up another major idea. Instead, have it so user accounts can buy "packs" of songs with credits instead. The larger the pack, the more expensive. I believe that when songs are released, they should be at least somewhat related. All public, all token, all shop, ect. It also makes it easier to manage difficulties, releasing a wider variety of songs.

As for guest users, I'm not sure, but cookies may be used to hold their data. But we'd rather them register and say hi anyway.

Game progression is key for newer players, and that is what I'm for. Not simply just tokens only. For anyone who makes the argument that the FC bar and the AAA bar are more appealing, well... I'm sorry to say, but it's down right terrifying. Even for me. It's literally, "I have to do not only play 1700 songs, but FC them too? That's BS."

It's an idea I've suggested for a long time but most of what I suggest gets brushed aside. The difficulty thing was just a quick example to throw out to illustrate my idea. There's a lot of ways it could be integrated.

[Xenorosth]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

It's an idea I've suggested for a long time but most of what I suggest gets brushed aside. The difficulty thing was just a quick example to throw out to illustrate my idea. There's a lot of ways it could be integrated.

The point of this thread is to shed light to ideas like this. It's why I created the thread. The FFR team will have a lot of points to go to from here. :P A lot of ideas that aren't in the suggestion thread are here.

[blanky!]

Well let's hope it doesn't get brushed aside this time. We have:
-lots of good ideas, BUT
-relatively few who know or have the ability or spare time to implement these ideas

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Xenorosth

The point of this thread is to shed light to ideas like this. It's why I created the thread. The FFR team will have a lot of points to go to from here. :P A lot of ideas that aren't in the suggestion thread are here.

It's been posted in threads like these before. What you don't understand is these threads constantly happen, this isn't some revolutionary thing you've done here.

Originally Posted by blanky!

Well let's hope it doesn't get brushed aside this time. We have:
-lots of good ideas, BUT
-relatively few who know or have the ability or spare time to implement these ideas

There have been people with the capabilities to do coding and stuff that were either not brought on or were brought on and immediately pushed out with how things were being run. But that's a whole nother topic that's been yelled about a bunch of times.

[MinaciousGrace]

ok good work people that's a wrap

see you all next thread

[CocoaPuff3100]

Bleh. having to do well on low-level songs to unlock the other levels would have deterred me from sticking around. Mashing Vertex, Flight of the Bumblebee (lol), Death Piano etc. was actually one of the best parts of FFR, far more fun than gettin frustrated at BF'ing a level 1 (old system) on the last note.

Plus, all my friends were better than me, so they talked a lot about harder songs, and of course I would want to try and compete with them.

I just can't see the appeal in locking certain content from new users. It would also be a massive change after so many years.

[Soundwave-]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

This isn't some revolutionary thing you've done here..

Maybe this is indicative something. Just a thought.

[Poison-]

We should just emulate pretty much everything osu! does.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Soundwave-

Maybe this is indicative something. Just a thought.

Don't aim this at me, I have no control in staff and I've voiced problems a million and one times. I've been on ground level with all the members fighting for things for years on end.

[s1rnight]

lol there should definitely just a big button on the top of the page that just says PLAY GAME, the way it is done now is pretty bad. just, imo

[s1rnight]

i think a problem is that ffr has been constantly adding incremental features over like ten years and none of it really makes any sense at all to people except people who have already been on the site for like ages. whuch is homely in that sort of "overcomplicated mom and pop restaurant filled with stuff the owners thought might be ~cool~, but gordon ramsay would probably get mad at in kitchen nightmares" sort of way

ok

TOKEN PAGE

- tokens should have a clear page with a rectangular grid for each one; greyed out for not attained, filled in for attained. put the pictures nice and big, maybe with overlay text

HOME PAGE

- the home page should basically have not much on it; there should be one big one for PLAY GAME, one for TOURNAMENT (if its on, given like a glinty look to differentiate it from the rest), LEADERBOARD and FORUM
- the homepage looks incoherent due to have nothing about the game at all; it doesn't say, for example, THIS IS FLASHFLASHREVOLUTION, A GAME WHERE YOU CAN PLAY DANCE DANCE REVOLUTION ONLINE. IT IS SUPER POPULAR AND A COOL COMMUNITY AND HAS 69420911 USERS and all that, with its logo. as a result nobody knows what the site is about if they look at it. they think "oh, an inexplicable complicated website that has been around for a while", rather than a lively thing they can participate in
- news feed being on the home page for like updates is ok. but don't put too much on, just have like the most recent update in an aesthetically nice way and have a "read more" on the bottom if ppl rly wanna look at all the old news updates for some reason. when u have one news update on the page, people will look at the whole thing change, and feel super excited, knowing that there is a new piece of news on the page. you only need one to attain this effect
- tiny-ass dropdown menus on webpages is like 2003-core, but it'd be okay if the stuff under the PLAY FFR stuff was organised properly. if u want to do away with the dropdowns (you quite easily could), you could have what would be under a drop down on different pages, or dot them around *if and where they are appropriate*; SONG LIST might be a good thing to have on the PLAY GAME page, for example.
- remove stuff that has no relevance to logged out users. nobody needs to know what a CREDIT SHOP or a CHANGELOG is when they are logged out

USER BIT IN THE TOP RIGHT

- this is woefully underused and people look to this to look for all the user-related stuff. put all the user-related stuff in the top right; this involves:
- SETTINGS. this can be as simple as like a little gear next to the name, and song submissions isn't really necessary to new people; it seems
- CREDIT SHOP: you could go very minimalist here, while still making it navigable; for example, "CREDIT SHOP" could be a hyperlink for CREDITS. LEADERBOARD could be four separate hyperlinks on "grand total", "ffr rank", "level", and "games played", with a different rank order depending on which you click

PROFILE CHAT

- don't make this a direct link to an swf file; my browser's mime type for SWF is set to auto-download, and thats the *last* thing i'd expect; just have it on a page somewhere, or maybe at the bottom of every page near the footer. who knows, you might even get guests if you let them chat!

FRONT PAGE'S WEIRD SIDEBURNS

- don't have these. complicates text way too hard; have a single centre but for the news of the day and then just have segmented bits for each thing u want, like forum posts/live channels would work great here. cheevos/recently played could fade in at the tops, updating with ajax if we want that sort of functionality

WAIT HOLD ON LET ME JUST GO THRU ALL THE DROPDOWN BITS ONE BY ONE

songlist

- easy mode: put the song list on the play ffr button
- radical mode: scrap the ffr button; have PLAY FFR link to the song list page, and then let *that* be your onsite navigation. the "individual song pages" will just be instances of the client that will let you play the song as if it was selected in-client, by which u can continue playing, or back out to the song list to play something else

changelog

- unnecessary, just put this in a footer

credit shop

- put this by the user bar if and when they are logged in. like a coin symbol will do if u want, or hyperlink "credits"

skill tokens

- also unnecessary to logged out users, just have tokens on the user bar with TOKENS 4/86 SKILL TOKENS 0/86 when they are logged in. a lot of this stuff would be simplified if u replaced the words w/ recognisable images (token for token, token on... idk, on fire for skill token. do what u want here guys)

daily statistics

- theres a "arrows smashed today" thing in the top bar (if this is your site pitch this REALLY needs to be accentuated in the way i described earlier), but if you want that can just be a hyperlink to more general site stats

ffr wiki

- just have this as a separate button alongside PLAY/TOURNAMENT/LEADERBOARD/FORUM

wiki news/wiki faq

- ??? just have this on the wiki. if and when it is clicked

standalone guide

- unnecessary, just have a big button that has a DOWNLOAD CLIENT for ffr somewhere. it could be on the PLAY FFR page, or literally on the "pitch" part of the homepage, since its pretty important. could have two big buttons that say PLAY (ONLINE) or PLAY (DOWNLOAD CLIENT) w/ little fuss


ok


LEADERBOARD

- update ranks

update... the whole of the ranks for... the entire site??? or just the individual user...? either way, this really isn't something you should give to individual users, just run this as like a cron job or something.
- also this makes zero sense but i know my lovely pronsunk coded it so i will give it a nod and smile
- the rest of this seems largely well-sorted. could just be buttons on the leaderboard page tho. contrary to belief, you *don't* need to be able to access every single page on the website from the homepage, organisation is key here

COMMUNITY

forums/profiles (??)

- the distinction between "forums" and "profiles" feels semantically weird here. just have community go to forums and then have a user search bar on the right for like user searches
- forums is redundant, bc community just links here anyway

profile chat

- profile chat, like i said, definitely should not just link to a swf. link it to a page at minimum, perhaps have it in the top right for X USERS ONLINE IN FFR CHATROOM (to distinguish it from forum)

the heck is all this

- i don't see any purpose for any of these. suggestions should just be something u see when u click COMMUNITY, as is REPORT A BUG, as is API, as is FFR TEAM. if u rly want the api or w/e to be visible, put "oh, and we also have... an a p i !!!" hyperlinked in the sales pitch part of the homepage, or "meet our moderators" as a hyperlink there too. is there really a distinction between random thoughts and forums? this could arguably be phased out into a "RANDOM THOUGHTS" part of the forum, since it serves really the same purpose. pictures doesnt need to be a page except some weird vestigial url, unless ppl r e a l ly want to browse it

SONG SUBMISSION

- unecessary, confusing for newbs. just collapse it into furum

SETTINGS

- have as bar on user page, subsettings as hyperlinks from settings page. no need to have all of these browsable from homepage

BILL'S PROFILE (shows up on random thoughts page, profile)

- this shows up on the random thoughts page and is weird. unless its necessary, get rid of it
- PM s1rnight shows up on my own profile. if you insist...? (get rid of this)
- none of this needs to exist either. either collapse it into the user bar on th top right, or just have this stuff on the profile page (ALL POSTS/THREADS is quite rightly hyperlinked to ALL POSTS, u could do a thread here thing too if u rly wanted. but its unnecessary)
- top 50/token/blah can be condensed easy into the user bar on top right