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Old 06-21-2016, 04:12 PM   #101
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

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Originally Posted by xXOpkillerXx View Post
If a person is threatening you, is killing (or badly injuring) said person the right thing to do ? Please explain answer [4 pts]
abso-fucking-lutely
I mean, sure, you could sit on the internet and say that you wouldn't kill or even injure an attacker but this doesn't hold at all in real life
what would you do? would you calmly ask them to put their weapon down so you guys could talk it out? would you call the police while they're standing there with their weapon down?

this doesn't work in the real world.

what works in the real world is protecting yourself with equal force. if they are threatening injury, you do what you can to minimize injury; whether this is fleeing or retaliation, both are equal responses. if they're threatening your life (the most common way this happens is with a gun), you do what you can to survive. if this requires you to severely injure or kill a criminal, then so be it. it's self-defense.

you'd rather die in this situation?
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:13 PM   #102
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

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Originally Posted by Frank Munoz View Post
They're in this thread, I didn't really think I had to tbh.
I will later I guess. But I am not putting words in his mouth by any means.
Either way, bitch mode is a weird way to define someone's response. I could say the exact same to you, but it holds no meaning tbh.
I'm sorry if I seemed crude, maybe I should have just linked all his quotes before hand so this wouldn't have happened. My bad

edit: same to Top,
it was unnecessary for me to really even post that in response to you,
though imo he wasn't bashing the opponents argument, but their intelligence.
i mean you're being offended by something that you shouldn't be offended by lmao
grow a spine
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:15 PM   #103
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

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though imo he wasn't bashing the opponents argument, but their intelligence.
no he was definitely bashing your argument, specifically your lack of knowledge in regards to said argument
you might think this is related to intelligence, but it's not. you came unprepared and unwilling to see a different point of view.
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:16 PM   #104
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

oh hey ps if arch0wl is reading this (he is), send me a pm on an alt account
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:23 PM   #105
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

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you'd rather die in this situation?
Look, the problem is much wider than that. All I see is self-defense here. Yeah, that'd be really cool to have a gun with me when I'm about to get killed.

Now, the real question: do you want everybody around you to easily have access to guns ? Ok, you might reply something around "But there's always people who'll have guns and when they'll threaten you, you'll want to have one too". The first part of that sentence would be right ! People can buy guns online I'm pretty sure, and some gangs or rich people most likely can, too.

However, the second part of it, which is what I'm mentionning in my first kind of paragraph, totally avoids the question.

I do Not want guns to be something that's anywhere close to be availible to the public.

Letting police officers and other people with such functions carry guns is another topic on which I'm not able to debate, but that's a very small percentage of a population, and represents a far smaller danger for me.
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:32 PM   #106
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

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the likelihood of you saying anything valuable after this without even knowing the subject matter you're addressing is nonexistent

if you aren't even going to use baseline levels of competence to make a reply, just don't. no one needs to hear what you have to say. they're probably even better off for not hearing it.

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do you really believe this rhetorical device isn't completely fucking retarded
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get the fuck out. you are completely and utterly full of shit.
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this concession is taking you from "human vegetable-tier intelligence" to "capable of reading words on a screen."
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fuck you for acting like it is not a thing unique to religious doctrine that I could be put to death in 10 or so countries which all happen to be heavily influenced by islamic doctrine
the problem is, arch prefers to respond like to this to those who oppose him, but gets offended when people talk to him the same way.
it's hypocrisy at it's finest.

anyways,

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no he was definitely bashing your argument, specifically your lack of knowledge in regards to said argument
you might think this is related to intelligence, but it's not. you came unprepared and unwilling to see a different point of view.
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i mean you're being offended by something that you shouldn't be offended by lmao
grow a spine
choof i think you're seeing me a bit hostile.
I could tell you to grow a spine as well, and to not take my replies so personally, but what good would that do ya know?

Also, I'm not sure if you're using "you/your" in a general sense or specifically addressing me.
None of these remarks from arch are made to me, so if you are addressing me, you are mistaking
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:37 PM   #107
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

firstly, police officers should have guns, without a doubt. that's not a topic you should bring up at all

secondly
I think everyone should have the capacity to purchase a weapon, but I also think that everyone should go through a rigorous background check, a rigorous mental health examination, and a rigorous course that shows you how, when, and why to use a weapon. if the person passes all three of these things, they are allowed to purchase a weapon and allowed to open carry.

another issue that I don't think canada has (haven't looked it up), is that they don't have a country south of them that imports thousands upon thousands of illegal guns every year. it's probably significantly higher than what I'm expecting, but the fact is that the US has illegal weapons flowing into the country and into the hands of criminals. I don't think there's any logistically feasible way to combat this at the borders, so we should combat this within the US as a whole.

it's been proven that gun violence goes DOWN when the public has a very good means of self-defense
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:46 PM   #108
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

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I don't think there's any logistically feasible way to combat this at the borders
If that is a true statement, then I don't feel like I can debate on the topic, since yes, I do live in Canada and not in the US. However I am curious to know why that would be the case.
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:51 PM   #109
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

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Originally Posted by choof View Post
firstly, police officers should have guns, without a doubt. that's not a topic you should bring up at all

secondly
I think everyone should have the capacity to purchase a weapon, but I also think that everyone should go through a rigorous background check, a rigorous mental health examination, and a rigorous course that shows you how, when, and why to use a weapon. if the person passes all three of these things, they are allowed to purchase a weapon and allowed to open carry.

another issue that I don't think canada has (haven't looked it up), is that they don't have a country south of them that imports thousands upon thousands of illegal guns every year. it's probably significantly higher than what I'm expecting, but the fact is that the US has illegal weapons flowing into the country and into the hands of criminals. I don't think there's any logistically feasible way to combat this at the borders, so we should combat this within the US as a whole.

it's been proven that gun violence goes DOWN when the public has a very good means of self-defense
completely agree with everything here,
the administering of guns to those who do not meet the suggested requirements you listed above are what i think will help diminishes alot of school shootings, accidental firearm related deaths,
like the ~23 toddlers who have shot and killed people this year.
some may have not been on accident though...
if a parent is not mentally sound enough to keep their guns safely away from children, then they prolly shouldn't have been able to purchase one.
hence your vigorous mental health examination.
But that issue might be more complex...

one thing i would combat this with is that this will not stop the gun crimes of bigger organizations, like those who smuggle illegal weaponry, like you stated above
so looking to combat this within the US as a whole is a great suggestion
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Old 06-21-2016, 05:27 PM   #110
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

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criminology and criminal justice is my major and this is a dumb statement to say. this is a good writeup

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/...nter-Final.pdf
doesnt even get close to proving correlation, let alone causation.

if i make a plot of declining hamster sales over the same period will you draw conclusions?
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:00 PM   #111
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

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doesnt even get close to proving correlation, let alone causation
there's plenty of referenced material in the appendix that goes into correlation.

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if i make a plot of declining hamster sales over the same period will you draw conclusions
i would love this yes please
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Old 06-21-2016, 08:30 PM   #112
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

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hence your vigorous mental health examination.
But that issue might be more complex...
eh
the background check makes sure a weapon doesn't end up in the hands of someone with a criminal record
the mental health exam makes sure a weapon doesn't end up in the hands of someone with... well, a mental health issue
the training makes sure a weapon doesn't end up in the hands of someone who thinks that a handgun irl operates the same as it does in cod

also tack on a question about religion in "prescreening" and deny weapons to anyone who selects "islam"
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Old 06-21-2016, 09:08 PM   #113
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

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the mental health exam makes sure a weapon doesn't end up in the hands of someone with... well, a mental health issue
You say this as if if was an "enter the machine it'll say if you're mentally ill" test... I mean I'm no psychologist but I wouldnt doubt many many people can fake having/not having a mentall illness...
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Old 06-21-2016, 10:00 PM   #114
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

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there's plenty of referenced material in the appendix that goes into correlation.
i read what seems to be the main paper in support of a correlation between conceal and carry and decrease in crime. unfortunately it seemed very fishy, so i looked up the author on wikipedia. i found this in the opposition section:

Quote:
Virtually all of these studies contend that there seems to be little or no effect on crime from the passage of license-to-carry laws. One by Ayres and Donohue, published in 2003, finds a temporary increase in aggravated assaults.

Rutgers sociology professor Ted Goertzel stated that "Lott's massive data set was simply unsuitable for his task", and that he "compar[ed] trends in Idaho and West Virginia and Mississippi with trends in Washington, D.C. and New York City" without proper statistical controls. He points out that econometric methods (such as the Lott & Mustard RTC study or the Levitt & Donohue abortion study) are susceptible to misuse and can even become junk science.[27]
Hemenway, David (2006). Private guns, public health. Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press. ISBN 9780472023820.
Ian Ayres, Yale Law School, and John Donohue III, Stanford Law School, "Shooting Down the More Guns, Less Crime Hypothesis," Stanford Law Review, 2003.[28] This study found a temporary increase in aggravated assaults.
Webster et al., "Flawed gun policy research could endanger public safety", American Journal of Public Health, 1997.[29]
Jens Ludwig, Georgetown University, "Concealed-Gun-Carrying Laws and Violent Crime: Evidence from State Panel Data", International Review of Law and Economics, 1998.[30]
Dan Black and Daniel Nagin, "Do 'Right-to-Carry' Laws Deter Violent Crime?" Journal of Legal Studies, (January 1998).[31]
Hashem Dezhbakhsh and Paul H. Rubin, "Lives Saved or Lives Lost? The Effects of Concealed-Handgun Laws on Crime," The American Economic Review, 1998.[32]
Mark Duggan, University of Chicago, "More Guns, More Crime," National Bureau of Economic Research, NBER Working Paper No. W7967, October 2000, later published in Journal of Political Economy.[33]
David E. Olson and Michael D. Maltz, "Right‐to‐Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim‐Offender Relationships," The Journal of Law & Economics, 2001. This study found mixed results as to whether right-to-carry laws were associated with similar effects as reported by Lott and Mustard or not.[34]
Grant Duwe, Tomislav Kovandzic, and Carlisle E. Moody, "The Impact of Right-to-Carry Concealed Firearm Laws on Mass Public Shootings" Homicide Studies 4 (2002).[35]
Tomislav V. Kovandzic and Thomas B. Marvell, "Right-to-Carry Concealed Firearms and Violent Crime: Crime Control Through Gun Decontrol?" Criminology and Public Policy 2, (2003).[36]
John J. Donahue III, Stanford Law School, 'The Final Bullet in the Body of the More Guns, Less Crime Hypothesis', Criminology and Public Policy, 2003.[37]
Tomislav V. Kovandzic, Thomas B. Marvell and Lynne M. Vieraitis, "The Impact of “Shall-Issue” Concealed Handgun Laws on Violent Crime Rates: Evidence From Panel Data for Large Urban Cities" Homicide Studies (2005): 292-323.[38]
Robert A. Martin Jr. and Richard L. Legault, "Systematic Measurement Error with State-Level Crime Data: Evidence from the “More Guns, Less Crime” Debate," Journal of Research in Crime and Delinquency May 2005: 187-210.[39]
Patricia Grambsch, "Regression to the Mean, Murder Rates, and Shall-Issue Laws," The American Statistician (2008).[40]
John Donohue and Ian Ayres. "More Guns, Less Crime Fails Again: The Latest Evidence from 1977–2006" Econ Journal Watch (2009): 218–238.[41]
Aneja, A.; Donohue, J. J.; Zhang, A. (29 October 2011). "The Impact of Right-to-Carry Laws and the NRC Report: Lessons for the Empirical Evaluation of Law and Policy" (PDF). American Law and Economics Review 13 (2): 565–631.[42]
Wolfgang Stroebe, "Firearm possession and violent death: A critical review," Aggression and Violent Behavior, 2013.[43]
Donald J. Lacombe and Amanda Ross, "Revisiting the Question 'More Guns, Less Crime?' New Estimates Using Spatial Econometric Techniques," Social Science Research Network, 2014.[44]
Steven N. Durlauf, Salvador Navarro, David A. Rivers, "Model uncertainty and the effect of shall-issue right-to-carry laws on crime," European Economic Review[45]

looks like plenty of refutation, with regards to both methodology and result.


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i would love this yes please
i cant find hamster sale data anywhere
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Old 06-21-2016, 10:04 PM   #115
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

lott and mustard was the one that seemed to be referenced by all the others, and is the one i was referencing btw.
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Old 06-21-2016, 10:05 PM   #116
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

tfw no qt alt right gf
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Old 06-21-2016, 10:47 PM   #117
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

It's amazing watching intellect decline vastly over the few decades especially in schools. As for guns I have no issue if they become legal criminals don't obey the law anyways.
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Old 06-21-2016, 11:10 PM   #118
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

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As for guns I have no issue if they become legal criminals don't obey the law anyways.
do you not find ease of access to be a relevant concern?
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Old 06-21-2016, 11:43 PM   #119
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

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It's amazing watching intellect decline vastly over the few decades especially in schools.
hey great contribution to the thread cucklord the exit's up in the top right of your screen, it's called "log out"
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Old 06-21-2016, 11:45 PM   #120
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Default Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

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You say this as if if was an "enter the machine it'll say if you're mentally ill" test... I mean I'm no psychologist but I wouldnt doubt many many people can fake having/not having a mentall illness...
yeah I don't know what would go into a rigorous psych eval, probably nothing that we could do at the moment given how sad the state of human psychology is overall

someone come up with a psychology thinktank for gun control
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