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Old 05-27-2016, 06:34 AM   #141
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

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Originally Posted by Dj_Ossa View Post
Kyze and Jousway somehow managed to alienate 95% on SM's userbase in this threat.
wow thanks for proofing me right, another great example of being an ignorant player, there are a ton of pad players that play stepmania on pad, heck the piu stuff in south america is p big I would more say 50% is sm keyboard user base as in ffr because thats excluding a bunch of asian and south american communities because they mostly play pad or piu but what do I expect from a ignorant MURICAN huehue

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Originally Posted by Dj_Ossa View Post
Just thought I would say a couple things:

Kyze, when you say that you won't test shit that is only for windows because windows sucks etc.... That's the MAJORITY of the community your bias is alienating. You're programming for a game that is played MOSTLY by PC players, not by your Linux fan club.
lawl calling windows "PC" o ok, anyways kyz is a linux developer its his own choice to not use windows there is nothing forcing him to use/develop for windows most people that work on stepmania make stuff for them selfs and besides why would he care about shitty little ignorant children like you that go HERPDERP 3.95 IS BEST EVER FAPFAPFAPFAP, its just not worth anyones time

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Originally Posted by Dj_Ossa View Post
Jousway, the "ignorant keyboard players" you speak of, that's the majority of your fucking target audience, and when you guys make a threat to convince people to that SM5 is better, faster, shinier, whatever the fuck, you sure as hell better be ready for some backslash.
read top part, also HERP DERP GUYS CHECK MY SCORE HOW BIG IS MY E-PENIS NOW? HUEHUE, remember when stepmania was about fun and not fucking scores, I do rip.

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Originally Posted by Dj_Ossa View Post
There ARE many reasons why people stopped updating SM after 3.9/3.95. It is not because we're dumb, Jous, it's because THE GAME FEELS DIFFERENT. I have been playing stepmania for longer than I would like to admit (okay, fuck it, 15 years) and, as a once active member of this community, I kept myself updated with the latest versions constantly. I was there when Josh and Charles released the CVS version of 3.9 and when they were very clear that it was a buggy build meant for online 4k play only.

Stepmania 4 felt odd and was buggy as shit. Stepmania 5 looks beautiful, but I just can't get myself to enjoy playing on it. I have a hard time with my timing, global offset is fucked up, I does not feel like the same game.
its just a slight timing you need to get used to and a ton of people have, its like switching from beatmania to lr2 its diffrent but calling the game shit (which some people do not saying u do) because its HERPDERP NOT THE SAME is stupid and I find it ignorant if people say 3.95 is "better" because its obvious not, its a random broken pull from the source code just to make online work, how is a broken version like that better, do people like insulting the devs that much?

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Originally Posted by Dj_Ossa View Post
I am currently trying (yet again, for the 4th time) to give SM5 another go... But it's not looking good. And I always keep my 3.95 CVS handy in case I pull the plug on SM5.

I appreciate all of your help and hard work, I really do. However, if Stepmania has any chance of coming back as game and a community, we need to start focusing on gameplay rather than "look how many obscure things I can do with this file/theme."

I agree with Izzy, Stepmania Online NEEDS to be a part of this development. Take a look at osu!, the way the game works, the multiplayer rooms, song choices, available to download at the click of a button. Why can't we have this with Stepmania? Charles and Josh stopped working on the SMO server script years ago, hoku added important features (and now he's gone)... Why don't you guys pick up where they left off and modernize Stepmania so that it's actually a suitable multiplayer game for this day and age?
meanwhile osu has spyware that takes screenshots of your pc LOLOLOLOLOLOL
anyways sm6 is going to be a complete overhaul in a different engine, so expect better online functionality, it wont be sm5 or 3.95 so the timing will be different again but hey who cares, we all know how you guys are going to react already

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Originally Posted by Dj_Ossa View Post
I understand the importance of the SSC team in keeping Stepmania alive. But remember that the thing that's kept this game alive for so long is the same thing you two are trying to alienate in this thread; community.
one person from the SSC even gave up on sm becasue of how toxic this and a few other communities are, just sayin

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Originally Posted by Dj_Ossa View Post
Hopefully we can do something to ensure this game we all love and respect begins to grow again, in a positive way.

Until then, don't complain if people prefer the buggy playable past over the shiny new things that doesn't feel like our game.
like I said, its like comparing beatmania to lr2 the timing is different and you just have to get use to it, but sticking to an inferior broken version just blows my mind, even 3.9+ makes more sense
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Old 05-27-2016, 10:30 AM   #142
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

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most people that play stepmania play for them selfs and besides why would we care about shitty little ignorant children like you that go HERPDERP SM5 IS BEST EVER FAPFAPFAPFAP, its just not worth anyones time
yeah you nailed it

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Old 05-27-2016, 11:08 AM   #143
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

At the risk of wasting my time, being that I know we absolutely do not get along:

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Originally Posted by Jousway View Post
meanwhile osu has spyware that takes screenshots of your pc LOLOLOLOLOLOL
anyways sm6 is going to be a complete overhaul in a different engine, so expect better online functionality, it wont be sm5 or 3.95 so the timing will be different again but hey who cares, we all know how you guys are going to react alreadywow thanks for proofing me right, another great example of being an ignorant player, there are a ton of pad players that play stepmania on pad, heck the piu stuff in south america is p big I would more say 50% is sm keyboard user base as in ffr because thats excluding a bunch of asian and south american communities because they mostly play pad or piu but what do I expect from a ignorant MURICAN huehue
While I will agree with there being some ignorance in that post being that you do speak the truth of players using SM5 for playing pad (in addition to being a phenomenal tool for PIU charting, it's even crossed into ITG at this point), you have to realize that the point isn't quite as applicable when you're talking about players who are likely using the game engine for different reasons than the context within this thread. 95% of the entire userbase is certainly not correct. But, realize that Kyzentun and anyone else that came into this thread are the ones who started this conversation in this community. You can't expect people to be aware of the happenings of the other uses for SM5 when this community has spent as long as they have using the game as a keyboard sim. Which leads me to my next point:

Quote:
read top part, also HERP DERP GUYS CHECK MY SCORE HOW BIG IS MY E-PENIS NOW? HUEHUE, remember when stepmania was about fun and not fucking scores, I do rip.

[...]

its just a slight timing you need to get used to and a ton of people have, its like switching from beatmania to lr2 its diffrent but calling the game shit (which some people do not saying u do) because its HERPDERP NOT THE SAME is stupid and I find it ignorant if people say 3.95 is "better" because its obvious not, its a random broken pull from the source code just to make online work, how is a broken version like that better, do people like insulting the devs that much?

[...]

like I said, its like comparing beatmania to lr2 the timing is different and you just have to get use to it, but sticking to an inferior broken version just blows my mind, even 3.9+ makes more sense
A few things here:

- You're not in the competitive scene, and this is incredibly insulting to people who are using the StepMania platform to play at exceptionally high levels. Remember which community you're trying to talk to when making these points.

- I'm going to make a pretty fair comparison for those who are so adapted to 3.95 to those who play FPS-games at a reasonably high level. When a FPS game has been around for a while and involves competitive play against other players, you'll likely have adapted settings for your particular machine that you will not change so long as you don't have to. You're not going to randomly change your mouse sensitivities/keybinds/monitor after being adapted to them for years, because it's going to inhibit your play. Those who play StepMania at these levels likely have adapted themselves to a particular noteskin, a speedmod specifically for that theme, basic modifications/optimizations to those themes, and even as far as customizable resolutions (as MinaciousGrace has said). What seems like a slight change to you is not going to be the same as someone who has played in a specific environment at their peak level, especially at the competitive level. I can vouch for the fact that MinaciousGrace has put a retarded amount of time in optimizing his play.

- Another reason worth keeping 3.95 as a build is that players have the ability to use the editor to place 192nd notes. Players who only specialize in pad play won't realize the importance of that hyper-precise quantize, whereas keyboard stepartists use them frequently for accenting in a way that is negligibly accurate within the timing window. Also keep in mind that, while broken, it was still more than usable enough by most players to create custom noteskins and themes that were also usable with the experimental online features. Timing is key here.

- Very few players in this community, if anyone at all, took well to StepMania 4 when it came out, and the gap in time between StepMania 4 and the introductory development to sm-ssc was rather large; what were players supposed to do? Completely change their environment to something so incredibly unoptimized and different (and in my personal experiences at the time, something incredibly unstable?)

The community is not out to insult the developers in the slightest, but you need to realize: it's going to take an extremely smooth transition to get players from 3.95 over to 5 out of their own volition, because they've been using it for so long and likely have no -real- reason to switch since they can play just about all of the competitive content out there (that, and most content creators have embraced the fact that these players exist and won't step proprietarily for SM5 in the first place).

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Originally Posted by Jousway View Post
anyways sm6 is going to be a complete overhaul in a different engine, so expect better online functionality, it wont be sm5 or 3.95 so the timing will be different again but hey who cares, we all know how you guys are going to react already
Making the assumption that the community is going to not even give it a shot is a bit ridiculous. The term "the customer is always right" is rather applicable here when you replace the word customer with players - their reasons are always valuable to at least one person, and that's themselves, regardless of how stupid the are. They have the ability to make the choice whether or not they want to use your product (your game), regardless of your efforts. Also, you don't exactly have to adhere to players and their specific timing concerns, but you should provide them with a medium to legitimately compete over other games too. Didn't PIU Prime introduce a "ranked" mode that tightened the timing windows up a bit that was separate from the normal windows you'd have in actual play? That could be a great thing to think about.

But honestly... seeking questions from the community was a good start by you guys, but the consistently vehement disagreements and ad hominem towards this particular community is really stupid, considering the fact that you guys came to us with questions. If you want to be irritated towards us making stupid requests out of our own volition (not that it's the most advised thing to do, but whatever), that's fine -- but when we're coming up with what we have as concerns within our particular community and you treat us like our opinions do not matter, you can't really expect to be received well.
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Old 05-27-2016, 11:22 AM   #144
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

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wow thanks for proofing me right, another great example of being an ignorant player, there are a ton of pad players that play stepmania on pad, heck the piu stuff in south america is p big I would more say 50% is sm keyboard user base as in ffr because thats excluding a bunch of asian and south american communities because they mostly play pad or piu but what do I expect from a ignorant MURICAN huehue
You're missing the point entirely. You guys came to ffr, asked for advice, ffr gave it to you and you didn't like it.



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lawl calling windows "PC" o ok, anyways kyz is a linux developer its his own choice to not use windows there is nothing forcing him to use/develop for windows most people that work on stepmania make stuff for them selfs and besides why would he care about shitty little ignorant children like you that go HERPDERP 3.95 IS BEST EVER FAPFAPFAPFAP, its just not worth anyones time
I'm not discrediting kyz for working on sm5, but there is a clear disconnect between his game and players who use 3.9/3.95. And it's not about one game being better than the other, it's about preference.

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Originally Posted by Jousway View Post
read top part, also HERP DERP GUYS CHECK MY SCORE HOW BIG IS MY E-PENIS NOW? HUEHUE, remember when stepmania was about fun and not fucking scores, I do rip.
Sorry that people like something you don't like.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jousway View Post
its just a slight timing you need to get used to and a ton of people have, its like switching from beatmania to lr2 its diffrent but calling the game shit (which some people do not saying u do) because its HERPDERP NOT THE SAME is stupid and I find it ignorant if people say 3.95 is "better" because its obvious not, its a random broken pull from the source code just to make online work, how is a broken version like that better, do people like insulting the devs that much?
How can you be this upset that people still use 3.95 especially if the reasons are clear as to why they do not change. And i'll reiterate that it's a preference thing. I like playing on 3.95/3.9's default theme, others like the timing window better or can't switch at all because it's awkward and uncomfortable. And some people don't like the fact that you have to go out of your way to ask how to get all the stuff from appdata into 1 folder because not everyone knows how to do that. Along with any other factors to switching over. Etc.

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meanwhile osu has spyware that takes screenshots of your pc LOLOLOLOLOLOL
anyways sm6 is going to be a complete overhaul in a different engine, so expect better online functionality, it wont be sm5 or 3.95 so the timing will be different again but hey who cares, we all know how you guys are going to react already
Looking forward to it man

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one person from the SSC even gave up on sm becasue of how toxic this and a few other communities are, just sayin
Sorry words hurt so much, i have no control over if other people take things the wrong way. Let's strawman, as far as I can see no one has said "SM5 is shit, the devs are shit and bad people and should stop working on SM5." or anything along those lines in this thread. Feedback was asked for, given, and taken the wrong way or outright ignored entirely because our community is shit, bad people, and should quit liking what we like.

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Originally Posted by Jousway View Post
like I said, its like comparing beatmania to lr2 the timing is different and you just have to get use to it, but sticking to an inferior broken version just blows my mind, even 3.9+ makes more sense
3.9+ is not as accessible, you can't find links for it easily, most players don't even know it exists. Additionally there's like 1 theme theme for it, and no online features. At the end of the day it boils down to peoples guess what: personal preference, and sm5 does not accommodate to these preferences.

And I'll say this again and again: I think it is great that someone is working on SM to make it the best game it can be. I'm happy that you guys are making the game accommodate your personal preferences in what you would like to see in the game, and that other people automatically switch over because it matches their preferences too. Keep up the great work, and don't let anyone else hold you back from what you want to do.
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Old 05-27-2016, 12:12 PM   #145
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

its a spiritual ting
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Old 05-27-2016, 12:29 PM   #146
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

Damn kids
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Old 05-27-2016, 02:37 PM   #147
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

Why can't scores and fun go together?
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So Sexy Robotnik (SKG_Scintill) {.0001/10} [--]
___
. RHYTHMS PR LAYERING
. ZOMG I HAD TO QUIT OUT TERRIBLE
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Old 05-27-2016, 02:38 PM   #148
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

I remember a time when stepmania was about having fun AND getting scores
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So Sexy Robotnik (SKG_Scintill) {.0001/10} [--]
___
. RHYTHMS PR LAYERING
. ZOMG I HAD TO QUIT OUT TERRIBLE
.
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Old 05-27-2016, 02:39 PM   #149
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

I even have fun watching streams and videos of other people getting scores
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Originally Posted by bluguerilla
So Sexy Robotnik (SKG_Scintill) {.0001/10} [--]
___
. RHYTHMS PR LAYERING
. ZOMG I HAD TO QUIT OUT TERRIBLE
.
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Old 05-27-2016, 02:41 PM   #150
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

how dare people play for scores HOW DARE THEY
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Old 05-27-2016, 05:37 PM   #151
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

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Originally Posted by TC_Halogen View Post
- basic modifications/optimizations to those themes, and even as far as customizable resolutions (as MinaciousGrace has said).
MinaciousGrace's resolution complaint was incoherent. You can get a resolution of 718x616 by setting your aspect ratio pref to 1.166 and height to 616. It sounded like he wanted the aspect ratio distorted. I don't know why you expect developers to make a game that displays things with the wrong aspect ratio, so there must by some misunderstanding. For squishing the notefield (fixing fat arrows?), 5.1 provides an option in the menu for adjusting the x zoom on the notefield.

MinaciousGrace made an SM5 theme that crashes SM5 the next time you start up if you're not on windows. If that's the level of your theme modifying skill and needs, you should ask a dev to do it for you so that you don't cause problems for other users. I've already dealt with two reddit threads from people who needed to know how to manually modify their preferences just to be able to start up stepmania again.

Quote:
- Another reason worth keeping 3.95 as a build is that players have the ability to use the editor to place 192nd notes.
I have no idea where you're coming from with this. SM5's editor has always been able to place 192nd notes.
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Old 05-27-2016, 06:02 PM   #152
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

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MinaciousGrace made an SM5 theme that crashes SM5 the next time you start up if you're not on windows. If that's the level of your theme modifying skill and needs, you should ask a dev to do it for you so that you don't cause problems for other users.
im just gonna go ahead and point out the fact that stepmania doesn't have built in os detection and optimized settings for the relevant platform in the first place is a fucking abhorrent disgrace

and also there are users who have just as stupid crashing problems with your base build

and also that it's not my job to provide a well-tested cross platform product that is bug free and available for use by anyone, it's your job

my theme is for me because it's what i want and the key difference here is i didn't make a thread on ffr asking why people don't use my theme before instantly flaming them for lodging legitimate concerns
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Old 05-27-2016, 06:19 PM   #153
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

Actually lets cut the circuitous bullshit and get the real heart of the issue here. This thread isn't about the keyboard user base, providing feedback, improving the client to meet user demands or pointless shit-flinging at people's development skills outside of their area of expertise. I'm a self taught R programmer and my area isn't in game development, it's in statistical computing. If you spent a week writing a program in R to generate long term population estimates in sub-saharan countries I'd find it just as fucking laughably pathetic as I'm sure you find whatever I put into transcendence.

But you're aren't wrong. If my theme-ing capabilities were so dog shit I should have gone to devs and requested a litany of features relevant to keyboard gameplay multiple times over the course of the last half decade. Oh wait. I did. As did many other players. All of whom you have entirely ignored. You just don't seem to get that in the entire development lifetime of sm5 the collective development team has failed to deliver a single feature within the client that would be worth the transition to sm5. Nobody in this thread thinks 3.95 is the perfect and many of them have already spent years making small edits to their themes that you would ask them to reconstruct on a new client that offers absolutely nothing in terms of features to your players.

But this thread isn't about any of that. This thread is about you, and your pathetic insecurities. This thread is about you needing to validate the time and effort into developing sm5. This thread is about your need to be heralded as the savior of the game by the community because for all this pompous jackassery and the logical flagellation that you have been throwing at everyone here your major fear is that maybe we're all right. Maybe for all the effort and time and vitriol you have put into the development of sm5 you have produced nothing of note. You took a gameplay focused client and you forced your concepts of aesthetics onto everyone and entirely ignored the gameplay facet; not because it's not important, but because you just don't know what the fuck you're doing.

The fact that the majority of this community rejects sm5 isn't a reflection on our incapacity to identify a usable product, it's a reflection on your incapacity to produce one. The fact of the matter is if you produced something worth using, we would be using it. But you didn't. Because you are a shitty programmer, an even shittier developer, and an even shittier person.

And this entire fuck-assery of a thread is your flailing about as you slowly come to terms with it.

The only mark you will leave on this world is your utterly insignificant carbon footprint. Your entire life will be obsoleted by a handful of cattle in wyoming and undone by a few fucking square meters of shrubbery in scotland.

good fucking day, sir

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Old 05-27-2016, 06:38 PM   #154
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

And there we have it. MinaciousGrace can't even clarify his problem with resolutions after I've made two different attempts to address it.
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Old 05-27-2016, 06:45 PM   #155
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

Uh.. c-c-chill o-out man...
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Old 05-27-2016, 06:50 PM   #156
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Old 05-27-2016, 07:25 PM   #157
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

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And there we have it. MinaciousGrace can't even clarify his problem with resolutions after I've made two different attempts to address it.
tbh you're doing the same thing though
as hostile as minacious is, and the last few sentences made which could have just been left out, he did address his own problems.

you nitpicked an entire post made from halogen and targeted minacious, about an aspect ratio complaint.
ignoring the entirety of what the whole post was about.

and you have been 'nitpicking', in this sense, since the beginning and eventually caused your own degradation. Ignoring your own faults and pinpointing only the matters that you want, and never address the other points made.

yea there are some 'attacks' which should be filtered out and honestly never made and you shouldn't really have to read but you know they're petty, and are using them to fuel an old feud.
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Old 05-27-2016, 07:51 PM   #158
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

I offered a whole bunch of insight, and you literally... just tunneled into the point that you wanted to pull apart, rather than taking any sort of criticism.

(p.s. the 192nd note being on SM5 doesn't help your cause when you're trying to switch people from 3.95 to it, by the way.)

You guys just refuse to listen to anything that's being said, and you're being borderline insulting in the process.

This thread should just be locked; it's serving no purpose anymore.
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Old 05-27-2016, 07:53 PM   #159
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This thread should just be locked; it's serving no purpose anymore.
please dont lock, i've quite enjoyed the read
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Old 05-27-2016, 09:20 PM   #160
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Default Re: What keeps you using 3.95?

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MinaciousGrace made an SM5 theme that crashes SM5 the next time you start up if you're not on windows. If that's the level of your theme modifying skill and needs, you should ask a dev to do it for you so that you don't cause problems for other users. I've already dealt with two reddit threads from people who needed to know how to manually modify their preferences just to be able to start up stepmania again.
um mina and everyone else you guys may be aware of this, but the reason why it's crashing is because of PrefsOverride.lua in the Scripts folder setting the sound driver to WaveOut when it doesn't exist on Mac and Linux

so it's a very easily fixed problem - just remove the line that says WaveOut
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Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace View Post
everyone has a different idea of what division 8 is and where the cutoffs are and what constitutes them and then people just pull numbers out of their ass and try to compare those numbers to other people pulling numbers out of their ass based on totally different metrics and then you just a self propelled self reinforcing shitfest of mass confusion so deep that people don't even realize they're confused
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