What NPS are you comfortable hitting?

[Lambdadelta]

Used to be quite comfortable with doing 300-315bpm streams while JS was somewhere between 240-260bpm.

What would that make my comfortable NPS in regards to those?

[DeadSignal]

Originally Posted by Lambdadelta

Used to be quite comfortable with doing 300-315bpm streams while JS was somewhere between 240-260bpm.

What would that make my comfortable NPS in regards to those?

20-21.5 for streams, and 24-26 for jumpstreams in your case - though the latter would depend on the kind of patterns involved of course.

On my end I'm currently at 16-18 for streams (260-280bpm, though bear in mind that very few of the stream files I play actually have jumps in them), and 17-22 for JS and burst streams depending on whether I really want to push myself. Currently in D5 territory from the looks of it.

Edit: By the way Icy I assume that the 24ths patterns in question are streams with 4th jumps, rather than no jumps being involved at all? In case of the latter I've generally been under the impression that for instance...

250bpm streams w/o jumps = 15 NPS.
300bpm streams w/o jumps = 20 NPS.
350bpm streams w/o jumps = 25 NPS.
400bpm streams w/o jumps = 30 NPS.

I'm asking this because from the looks of it you have simply multiplied the bpm value for JS patterns (16th notes) by 1.5 which only serves to define stream patterns through eliminating the 8th jumps, thus leaving out 4ths as the only ones remaining. Which appears to be fine for the most part, though something worth pointing out in my opinion is that files with such patterns are only really prevalent in D6-D7+ territory as far as I have noticed. Since basically for D5 and below, most viable "fast" stream files at that level happen to completely lack jumps in them - for instance CIA Rave / Uber Rave (FFR) and Aoreo 1/2 + Tachyon packs for index/pad patterns, though essentially every single stream file below 270bpm or so seems to share that property anyway, with Scary Halloween Show (Yolomania 3) being the only noteworthy exception that immediately comes to my mind. Therefore if you happen to be D5 or below, I suppose that could be worth keeping in mind if you wish to be accurate enough in defining the area that corresponds to your optimal stream speed.

Do feel free to correct me if I happen to be wrong with any of my observations though.

[Dynam0]

No idea why people are classifying vibrating nps in relation to the number of fingers involved...the motion is 100% arm-dependent so whether you're vibrating on 1 key or covering an area of 4 keys it makes no difference as to the number of distinct movements your arm has to perform.

Jumpstreams can potentially cause this issue as well if there is a lot of [12] and [34] patterning, you could make the argument that your true NPS* is artificially higher depending on the patterning indicative of what arch said. Comboing generic patterning over reasonable periods ~30 seconds should give the most accurate valuation of your speed on a movements per second basis.

*I don't like the term notes per second because we aren't really playing music, even calling it inputs per second is bad too because you run into the inflation issue when one motion covers more than 1 key. I'd call it "actions" or "movements" per second if you want to get technical about it.

Would type more but g2g to work rip

[MinaciousGrace]

more like noobs per second mirite

[icontrolyourworld]

Originally Posted by DeadSignal

20-21.5 for streams, and 24-26 for jumpstreams in your case - though the latter would depend on the kind of patterns involved of course.

On my end I'm currently at 16-18 for streams (260-280bpm, though bear in mind that very few of the stream files I play actually have jumps in them), and 17-22 for JS and burst streams depending on whether I really want to push myself. Currently in D5 territory from the looks of it.

Edit: By the way Icy I assume that the 24ths patterns in question are streams with 4th jumps, rather than no jumps being involved at all? In case of the latter I've generally been under the impression that for instance...

250bpm streams w/o jumps = 15 NPS.
300bpm streams w/o jumps = 20 NPS.
350bpm streams w/o jumps = 25 NPS.
400bpm streams w/o jumps = 30 NPS.

I'm asking this because from the looks of it you have simply multiplied the bpm value for JS patterns (16th notes) by 1.5 which only serves to define stream patterns through eliminating the 8th jumps, thus leaving out 4ths as the only ones remaining. Which appears to be fine for the most part, though something worth pointing out in my opinion is that files with such patterns are only really prevalent in D6-D7+ territory as far as I have noticed. Since basically for D5 and below, most viable "fast" stream files at that level happen to completely lack jumps in them - for instance CIA Rave / Uber Rave (FFR) and Aoreo 1/2 + Tachyon packs for index/pad patterns, though essentially every single stream file below 270bpm or so seems to share that property anyway, with Scary Halloween Show (Yolomania 3) being the only noteworthy exception that immediately comes to my mind. Therefore if you happen to be D5 or below, I suppose that could be worth keeping in mind if you wish to be accurate enough in defining the area that corresponds to your optimal stream speed.

Do feel free to correct me if I happen to be wrong with any of my observations though.

yes the 24ths are without any jumps whatsoever. due to the nature of how streams play vs. jumpstream 16ths you can be good at one and not the other but still have a really good nps. I even converted 24ths back to 16ths for their bpm

@dynamo, it's ok that people are mentioning their nps for vibro imo because they're saying it's vibro. It's entirely up to them if they want to say anything further, as i've stated before this thread isn't particularly meant to accomplish anything i made it on the spur of the moment.

@mina how many noobs can you hit per second o:

[MKIIPro]

16 is where I'm comfortable, anything above 18 and I start to falter. Got to love working on stream though

[Arch0wl]

Originally Posted by Dynam0

No idea why people are classifying vibrating nps in relation to the number of fingers involved...the motion is 100% arm-dependent so whether you're vibrating on 1 key or covering an area of 4 keys it makes no difference as to the number of distinct movements your arm has to perform.

what do you mean by this?

[Dynam0]

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

what do you mean by this?

You're implying that by vibrating your one hand onto 4 keys at once at 12 "NPS" that the effect is additive and you are actually vibrating at 48 NPS. While you are technically making that many inputs, I don't think that is a useful quantifier of your vibration speed because we should actually be looking at the number of distinct motions you need to make; that being 12 NPS.

It's like arguing that a car traveling at 100km/h is really traveling at 400km/h because each wheel is traveling at 100km/h...it isn't a good representation.

I made a post regarding 4-key technique a while ago where it's simply broken down into two elementary techniques: repeated notes on one finger and alternating between both fingers (trilling).

*goes to dig up post*

Originally Posted by Dynam0

...Speed has been derived from fast execution of patterns in a variety of forms; streams, jacks, trills, jumpgluts, jumpstream, handstream, etc. Really though, there are only two basic motions that define finger speed: Alternating notes on one hand (one handed trilling), and repeating notes on one hand (jacking). The combination of those two motions on one hand and performing them in concert with both hands simultaneously defines overall speed. Finger speed in addition to coordination is what gives raw speed in StepMania.

I think it best to:

1) Quantify jack speed on a one-finger basis for different time durations on both hands.
2) Quantify one-hand trill speed for different time durations on each hands.
3) Use data from 1) on it's own to quantify jack speeds, jacking is a very distinct motion that doesn't really lend itself to pattern manipulation.
4) Take the sum of the results of each hand from 2) to get a theoretical max NPS that is independent of pattern manipulating (this is someone's true max NPS).

[Poison-]

Since I haven't played in forever my speed and stamina are going to be garbage. So probably around 18-19. If I played for a week it would be significantly higher.

[Arch0wl]

@dynam0

I posted screenshots of mendes vibrajacks as a reductio ad absurdum -- a reductio takes a position (namely, that any NPS is legitimate) and carries it to an extent where the position allows an absurdity, thereby letting you realize the absurdity of that position. in other words, I am in agreement with you, for the most part

I made a similar distinction a few years ago http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...d.php?t=129355

you are essentially correct in distinguishing jacks from trills because jacks work wrist extensors while trills work very specific digit (finger) extensors. you can diminish your trill speed for a day by exhausting the muscles doing static jar holds (and your jack speed will be unaffected); conversely, you can exhaust the muscles responsible for jacks by, say, doing wrist curls or buying dumbbells with attachable ends, detaching one end and doing drumming motions with those.

however, I don't think this means speed at all movements stem from these two divisions. minijack speed seems like a unique skill, as does movement across keys in index. I can trill at 280 bpm 16thsnds for long periods index, but have difficulty streaming 280 bpm 16ths for long periods index. in other words, some people would be better at moving their fingers from key to key, for reasons that might not be apparent.

[Dynam0]

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

@dynam0

I posted screenshots of mendes vibrajacks as a reductio ad absurdum -- a reductio takes a position (namely, that any NPS is legitimate) and carries it to an extent where the position allows an absurdity, thereby letting you realize the absurdity of that position. in other words, I am in agreement with you, for the most part

I made a similar distinction a few years ago http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...d.php?t=129355

you are essentially correct in distinguishing jacks from trills because jacks work wrist extensors while trills work very specific digit (finger) extensors. you can diminish your trill speed for a day by exhausting the muscles doing static jar holds (and your jack speed will be unaffected); conversely, you can exhaust the muscles responsible for jacks by, say, doing wrist curls or buying dumbbells with attachable ends, detaching one end and doing drumming motions with those.

however, I don't think this means speed at all movements stem from these two divisions. minijack speed seems like a unique skill, as does movement across keys in index. I can trill at 280 bpm 16thsnds for long periods index, but have difficulty streaming 280 bpm 16ths for long periods index. in other words, some people would be better at moving their fingers from key to key, for reasons that might not be apparent.

My post was regarding 4-key technique so that's why index-related stuff wasn't included, mini-jack speed is in the jack category but extremely short duration (like your burst category from an earlier post).

I've always wanted to increase my left hand trill speed but something is telling me I've also hit a ceiling for reading patterns too :/

[Arch0wl]

I don't know if a ceiling exists for reading patterns

it might, but you should be able to read denser combos of notes eventually

you could try memorizing a pattern and seeing if it's an issue of reading at all, since if the pattern is memorized your ability to hit the pattern shouldn't be very affected by reading difficulty

[Staiain]

I'm capable of sustaining 30 - 35 NPS on 4K for more than 10 - 30s without jumptrilling or cheating patterns, like actually comboing extremely fast polystreams with jumps

[Mad Matt]

I can sustain 20 nps for ~15 seconds, 19 nps for ~30

[Arch0wl]

woah

[Nick012]

10-16 NPS (under 175 bpm)
I´m comfortable with 160 bpm jumpstream

[PhantomPuppy]

im comfortable with around 7. yea, 7 or so is nice.

[DDRNGGin]

These are my following limits on my playstyle, index: My limit on 8th note jumpstreaming is about 27-29 nps assuming nonstop 8th note jumps. My limit for streams without jumps, hands, or quads stands at about 480BPM 8th note stream, or at about 600 BPM 12th note streams (I do not know the equivalent NPS for either of those). My current skill level stands at about D4.

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by DDRNGGin

These are my following limits on my playstyle, index: My limit on 8th note jumpstreaming is about 27-29 nps assuming nonstop 8th note jumps. My limit for streams without jumps, hands, or quads stands at about 480BPM 8th note stream, or at about 600 BPM 12th note streams (I do not know the equivalent NPS for either of those). My current skill level stands at about D4.

480 BPM 8ths = 320 BPM 12ths = 240 BPM 16ths. 240 BPM 16ths = 240 * 4 / 60 = 16 NPS. 600 BPM 12ths (which I'm assuming is a mistake) is 600 * 3 / 60 = 30 NPS lol

[[TeRa]]

im comfortable at a crisp 0nps