jTWG LXIX: MECHANICAL POWER OF LOVEEEEE Game Thread

[Cold Kitten]

welp. Guess I'll have to go read through everything again and connect some more dots

[danceflashrevo]

Hm... I'm curious what "Red's new timezone" is lol.

What exactly was your theory Cold Kitty? Just curious :3

[Cold Kitten]

Oh, just the fact that Clasko is being quiet bc wolf. If he doesn't know his role because he hasn't been on, then he's certainly not being quiet bc he doesn't know his role. He's just being quiet bc he literally hasn't been online ahah

[danceflashrevo]

Oh lol

I'd like to know red's thoughts. I'm not quite sure what to do right now xP

[Cold Kitten]

Beats me. We don't have enough people in here to really get much going :<

[Tps222]

Originally Posted by Charles Claythorne

guys you are all so cute the way you all interact with each other omg

Sorry, danceflash!!! Didn't realise, haha.
also you can make up for your lack of a statistics joke with a game of 100% ORANGE JUICE

Liking Cold Kitten a bit more given his reads, but I'm still a bit iffy on him. He's a Cool Kat for now though. B)

I agree that tps has been posting less as time goes on, so let's pressure tps a bit more with another vote.

Anything in particular you wanna know from me? I'm 0 for 1 on my reads right now and the amount of inactivity is sapping my enthusiasm. I really wanted to get off on the right foot with you guys in this game but it seems like my efforts just came off as fluff (like the majority of everyone else's posts weren't that day) at least I tried to spell out my thought processes.

I still don't like big long lists. So here is my case for [vote]charles[/vote]:

1. He has 38 posts, way more than anyone left alive, and most of them are just non-sense fluff:

cool kitten is also cold kitten but you are COOL TOO SO THAT'S OKAY I THINK

guys you are all so cute the way you all interact with each other omg

Sorry, danceflash!!! Didn't realise, haha.
also you can make up for your lack of a statistics joke with a game of 100%...

[quote]we will play 100% orange juice together in your honour/quote]

As someone who worked an emergency on-call shift all day yesterday, I did not enjoy coming home and having to read through so many unnecessary posts. It comes off as a dilution of material in attempts to appear active and informative.

Does anyone mention rng as a possible wolf victim yesterday?

Originally Posted by charles

wolves if you wolf rngrx i will murder you

with love

What a random and unprovoked silly post. "But wait TPS! you say,
"What if he was framed!". A definite possibility. With a framejob comes motive though; what motive would there have been to frame Charles? He hasn't claimed anything, and hasn't lead us anywhere. Would it because of how active he is? I doubt it, refer to my earlier quotes to see the quality of "activity". With that in mind, it comes off as someone trying to create some goodwill before a kill. The only thing I can't piece together is why he would potentially want rng dead.

Here is a question I think we all wanted answers to:

Well, I'm an idiot. I thought Day Phase was ending in the evening for forum time, whelp.

RNGRX, could you clarify on why you didn't switch your vote to Antronach despite being in a KitB with him?

That was some shady shit. We all would have loved an answer to why rng didn't switch his vote, but if you follow the order events it goes like this:

antro gets kitb, charles asks why rng didn't switch vote, charles makes post about threatening the wolves if they kill rng, then rng dies and no one wonders about the charles questioning of rng's vote/his joke threat anymore.

Let's take a look at rng's last list:

Originally Posted by rng

Antronach - No contributions. When I put pressure onto you you try to shift the attention elsewhere. Leaning red.

So RNG even thought antro may have been a wolf, was in a kitb with him, and somehow didn't put a vote on him to save his life. What did he know? Why has he been silenced now? This is my best lead all game and I'd love to hear Charles respond.

also on a side note I hate games without OOT talking because I had no idea when day had started and was surprised to see a page of posts up. It's nice to receive a "hey tps play the fucking game" message when OoT is enabled. Either way, I'll do a better job at paying attention. I should be free for most of the day to answer any questions.

[Tps222]

oops, i guess vote tag is only FFYa.

ok charles

[Charles Claythorne]

Yeah, not liking your wild accusation of me. It's fine to be suspicious of me, but your reasoning is wholly unsubstantiated and mostly theoretical based on a Night 1 wolfing. Not to mention that it feels to me that you're trying to create a strawman's argument to accuse me and I don't see a Human purposely doing that unless victim to confirmation bias.

This is only based off of my word, but I would have avoided wolfing RNGRX for two reasons:
He was very quiet during the live TWGs and I liked the assertive disposition he had taken on in this game, as I found it to be an improvement to his performance.
Because he was attempting to incite activity, it would be beneficial for the game as a whole. As I mentioned in one of my posts, I want this jTWG to be active and supported by the newer Players. RNGRX's performance in the game fits the bill of doing that.

Now let me ask you a few questions regarding your theory. If I'm a Wolf, why did I wolf one of my Human leans? Why did I unnecessarily put myself to the risk of suspicion by mentioning RNGRX as potentially being wolfed (I'm going to make due on that threat to the Wolves, by the way. If you're a Wolf as I currently suspect, you're going down!!!)? You say there's no motive to frame me, but that's a pseudoproblem. I don't think it's far off to assume that the Wolves wolfed RNGRX because he was active, for example. Maybe they believed he was a PR too.


I do post a lot of fluff. But I post a lot of informative things too. This isn't something unique to me; look at any recent FFR TWG. In fact, I'm actually one of the quiet ones in actual TWGs, so if you think my fluff is bad, you're in for a huge surprise when you move out of jTWG!
I don't post fluff to appear active (the contributive posts I make are sufficient enough for that already), I post fluff to have fun, because that's what the game is about; having fun. Any what better way to instigate activity than by trying to get everyone to have fun? Do you disagree with that?

Not to mention that I've already mentioned in a few of my posts prior that I'm trying to hold back on making huge analytical posts so that people can make the game for themselves. I don't want to run with the game, I want people to be active on their own and assert themselves.


By the way, the way you describe the order of events is fallacious. Here's a more descriptive version of how it went:

Antronach is KitB'd. I post this about not knowing the Day Phase ended early. Some discussion on changing the Phase end occurs. I post some leans. People briefly refer to the lynch and Phase ending again. RNGRX posts this to the Wolves and I respond with this.


Now that you're here, why don't you answer my question at the bottom of the post here.
And here's a follow up since you suspect me. If I'm a Wolf, who would my Partner be and why? Do you think I've made any association tells?

Also, it would be beneficial for you to give your general thoughts on all the Players. It's the second Day Phase, so you surely have an opinion on people at this point, no? Whom do you have as Human leans and who do you think are potentially suspect if you don't have any strong Wolf leans other than me? I know you said you don't like big long lists, but can you refute their usefulness from what I posted about them? If you can give me a persuasive reason why you don't like them, I'll understand why you would dislike them, but for the time being, I don't see why you wouldn't.

[Tps222]

Originally Posted by charles

Yeah, not liking your wild accusation of me. It's fine to be suspicious of me, but your reasoning is wholly unsubstantiated and mostly theoretical based on a Night 1 wolfing. Not to mention that it feels to me that you're trying to create a strawman's argument to accuse me and I don't see a Human purposely doing that unless victim to confirmation bias.

Everything posited is "theoretical" and "unsubstantiated" in this game unless it comes from a confirmed seer. I'll never understand why in TWG people are alright with those who are ghopping on bandwagon mentalities and making gut reads but then find it suspicious when others construct specific narratives for each player and decide which one fits the mold of what someone would reasonably deem "wolfish" the most and roll with it as a possibility. [/quote]

Originally Posted by charles

This is only based off of my word, but I would have avoided wolfing RNGRX for two reasons:
He was very quiet during the live TWGs and I liked the assertive disposition he had taken on in this game, as I found it to be an improvement to his performance.
Because he was attempting to incite activity, it would be beneficial for the game as a whole. As I mentioned in one of my posts, I want this jTWG to be active and supported by the newer Players. RNGRX's performance in the game fits the bill of doing that.

Originally Posted by charles

Now let me ask you a few questions regarding your theory. If I'm a Wolf, why did I wolf one of my Human leans? Why did I unnecessarily put myself to the risk of suspicion by mentioning RNGRX as potentially being wolfed (I'm going to make due on that threat to the Wolves, by the way. If you're a Wolf as I currently suspect, you're going down!!!)? You say there's no motive to frame me, but that's a pseudoproblem. I don't think it's far off to assume that the Wolves wolfed RNGRX because he was active, for example. Maybe they believed he was a PR too.

I agree with you about this. I don't understand why everyone isn't questioning the stupidity of wolfing the other person in the kitb. You'd have to think that rng would have at least been up on most people's radar today. The only theories that make sense to me are the instances where the wolves are either just randomizing it to confuse us or picking and not thinking. Clasko hops up on my list for that simply because he hasn't been playing the entire time. Maybe look at the list of replacement players so far too? Some overlap where neither are active over a night phase would make sense. I'll look to see who replaced who.

Originally Posted by charles

I do post a lot of fluff. But I post a lot of informative things too. This isn't something unique to me; look at any recent FFR TWG. In fact, I'm actually one of the quiet ones in actual TWGs, so if you think my fluff is bad, you're in for a huge surprise when you move out of jTWG!
I don't post fluff to appear active (the contributive posts I make are sufficient enough for that already), I post fluff to have fun, because that's what the game is about; having fun. Any what better way to instigate activity than by trying to get everyone to have fun? Do you disagree with that?

Thanks for the links. Like I said initially, I haven't played with most people in jTWG, I don't have a foundation of meta yet to compare to. Saying that, have I seen you play in TWG before? I've been playing TWG on here since 2004 on and off, and you're pretty good for someone I'm not sure if I know/remember. Did you go by another name?

Originally Posted by charles

Now that you're here, why don't you answer my question at the bottom of the post here.

I would rather have seen clasko actually show up and play then waste a lynch on a blind 50/50. The lynching of inactives is a dumb strategy. RNG was about to be near the top of votes received by the end of the day, that was the situation where him being a wolf would make sense. Like I said, everything is theoretical. What I always want to see is how the accused/associated react. You play the play out and see what info comes up and then you have a better opportunity to make a decision that at least feels a bit more informed.

Originally Posted by charles

And here's a follow up since you suspect me. If I'm a Wolf, who would my Partner be and why? Do you think I've made any association tells?

That 2nd question is a lot more interesting than the first. What made you want to ask that? Because it comes off as a human confident in their humanity? Or because you genuinely want to know in a lawful neutral kind of way? Either way, you're no longer the most suspicious person to me and I'm going to rescind my vote off you. Reading back, you did question rng more than I realized about his claims. I should have come in with a more fleshed out version of my theory in a complementary way to your questioning to potentially gather sufficient info to avoid that kitb. What I still don't understand is why antronach was tied. did I miss something?

Anyways I need to go back and see who replaced who and if they remained active or inactive. I really like the potential in the rng wolfing being randomed via a replacement/clasko mishap. Is it legal to ask the host to clarify what happens if roles on either side don't send in a PM?

[danceflashrevo]

I don't see why it wouldn't be legal to ask tsf any questions about the game. He's a bad mod though so maybe he won't give you the best answer

But yeah I don't like the idea of wasting a lynch on an inactive either, which is why I brought up the idea about the cop seering clasko and if clasko flips red, woot! Only one more person to worry about in the case that today's lynch flips green. GG if the flip is red.

[Cold Kitten]

It would suck if clasko was the cop. good luck for us lmao

[danceflashrevo]

Originally Posted by Cold Kitten

It would suck if clasko was the cop. good luck for us lmao

Oh god, I don't even wanna think about this as being a possibility xD. That would be the worst

[Cold Kitten]

Originally Posted by Tps222

I would rather have seen clasko actually show up and play then waste a lynch on a blind 50/50.

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

But yeah I don't like the idea of wasting a lynch on an inactive either

I don't disagree with you guys on this btw, but at the same time, leaving an inactive isn't great either (especially in a game with this few people) because the wolves could (and probably would) just want to leave him in order to make it easier to make it a win for them right? i mean just leave it till right before the last night they need to win is possible and then kill and they win. I dunno, having the inactive show up is definitely a better solution, but like I said. he hasn't even been on at all since before this started, so we can't really count on him to show up really, can we? :/

[Cold Kitten]

if possible. not is.

[thesunfan]

votecount
Red (.01): Phantom
Clasko (.01): Phantom
DFR (.01): Phantom
Charles (2): Red, TPS
TPS (2): DFR, Charles

[danceflashrevo]

Well... I gave my input about what cop should do after this day phase and that's to see clasko. I'm most concerned right now with who is best lynch, and I'm pretty sure there's a wolf between tps and mashi, and my lean is on tps still with this little exchange they had. I wish red was here to put an input on this situation but "new timezones" are a thing?

Also tps to unvote you have to say unvote with the twgv tags. Not sure if you knew or not :P

[Cold Kitten]

wait who is mashi again i don't pay attention to nicknames bc i'm lame

[danceflashrevo]

mashi is charles, sorry lol

[Charles Claythorne]

I started playing TWG regularly on FFR a little bit less than a year ago, I believe? Somewhere around that mark.
I've been playing TWG in general from early 2009 on another site called LLF.

tps, my issue with making a narrative of a Night 1 wolfing is that such a wolfing is often completely open. Wolves are generally very self-conscious of what they do, so one would be hard-pressed to find an early game wolfing where they incriminate themselves.
With this being a jTWG, I don't think it's so farfetch'd to conclude that RNGRX was likely wolfed due to being contributive and trying to make the game active.

Seeing as outside communication is forbidden and there's no way for Clasko to even know his Role or Partner without checking his Role PM, we can conclude that if Clasko is a Wolf, he had no hand in the wolfing, seeing as he hasn't been online since before the game began (December 15th, specifically, as danceflash and Cold Kitten mentioned before). The replacements (Cold Kitten and danceflashrevo) to the other two inactives (VisD and soramimi, respectively) have been relatively active since they've been replaced. They posted quite a bit during the Night Phase, for example, so it's clear they've (like every other living Player) at least paid mind to the game.

I completely agree with you that lynching inactives Day 0 isn't the best course of action, since it provides us no information for later Phases. But my main concern is why you suspected RNGRX for it.

RNGRX voting for Clasko near the End of Phase is exactly what a Wolf wouldn't have done in the situation if he knew the Phase was ending (hence why I asked him about that later), since RNGRX could have easily voted for Antronach and escaped out of the KitB.
I also feel that the manner in which RNGRX expressed his wishes to lynch Clasko were from a Human mindset given how his playstyle revolved around people being active and contributive. It would make sense for him to want to get rid of a completely null Player.
Further, I see little reason beyond misdirection for RNGRX to have pursued a Clanko lynch over an Antronach lynch seeing as RNGRX clearly expressed some suspicion towards Antronach in his suspicion list.

I asked the second question more for lawful neutral's sake, though I'm obviously confident in my humanity too considering I know I'm Human.

[Charles Claythorne]

i'm not charles I AM THE ANGEL OF LOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE