Riots in Ferguson, Missouri - Page 5

**s1rnight** · 11-25-2014, 11:05 PM

lol police shot an unarmed 12 year old black boy for carrying a bb gun in a park as this news was even happening

black men are already disproportionately targets of police violence and are killed despite being innocent and police routinely get away with it. sketchy evidence like this being enough for a police officer to get away w/ taking someone's life is precisely why people are angry

**adlp** · 11-25-2014, 11:15 PM

@dynam0 the cop did everything by the book. no ordinary cop is ordered to shoot to kill. they are authorized to use deadly force and shoot to stop. and according to the evidence, that's exactly what he did.

the big issue is people and the media are inclined to focus on an individual's action when the real criticism should be aimed at the department that trained the officer to react the way that he did in this scenario. that's how changes are made in policing.

DotKritic · 11-25-2014, 11:22 PM

Would the timing of the announcement on whether to indict Darren Wilson have mattered? Or course not. There was going to be a riot regardless.

Even though they waited until all the schools and businesses closed, they gave the protesters all the time in the world to assemble and prepare.

**adlp** · 11-25-2014, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s1rnight

lol police shot an unarmed 12 year old black boy for carrying a bb gun in a park as this news was even happening

if the officer was able to tell that it was a BB gun in the first place, this wouldnt have happened. instead it looks like the officer was legitimately afraid for his life then he just did what he was trained to do. was deadly force necessary against this 12 year old? hell no. but confrontation with law enforcement becomes an arms race that the cops are required to win. with this kid brandishing a "gun" at a cop, it instantly escalated the situation to a lethal level if the cop really believed he was in danger while in the line of duty.

don't like that? take it up with their police department

**Garquillex** · 11-25-2014, 11:31 PM

I think the shooting was probably justified once it got to that point, but the entire situation may have evolved towards violence because of prejudice. Although if there was prejudice, I don't think this was a goal and there is some doubt to messing with such a large person.

prejudice is boring as hell to me tho

DotKritic · 11-25-2014, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adlp

if the officer was able to tell that it was a BB gun in the first place, this wouldnt have happened. instead it looks like the officer was legitimately afraid for his life then he just did what he was trained to do. was deadly force necessary against this 12 year old? hell no. but confrontation with law enforcement becomes an arms race that the cops are required to win. with this kid brandishing a "gun" at a cop, it instantly escalated the situation to a lethal level if the cop really believed he was in danger while in the line of duty.

don't like that? take it up with their police department

The BB gun didn't have the orange tip (or whatever colored tip BB guns have these days) to distinguish a real gun from a BB gun. News outlets say the officer demanded the kid raise his hands with the BB gun visibly in the kid's waistband. The kid instead pulled the BB gun from his waistband (if I remember correctly) and pointed it at the officer.

**Ghakimx** · 11-26-2014, 05:14 AM

Just wanna give my 2¢ on this.

I heard about this news somewhere and think it's tragic that a kid died at the hands of an officer. If I was the officer, if I saw the guy, I would try to assess the situation properly. What is the race of the guy? Does he look like he's old enough to wield a gun? Does the gun look legitimately dangerous?

However, the officer may not have had enough time to assess these factors and acted straight off of training. Like, "Suspect looks like a black teen, is wielding a pistol and pointing at me, highly lethal, lethal force authorized". He would risk putting the suspect down to decrease the risk innocent civilians getting hurt as well as himself and his colleagues. What I'm wondering is why he chose to shoot him with a gun rather than use other armaments like a taser gun, which would have easily incapacitated him. Did the police force not equip him with it? I don't know.

I always say, there is no one true person to blame for the entire incident, and that everyone is at fault. According to the officer's testimony, the kid WHIPPED out his fake gun and POINTED it at him. If this is true, then that would easily aggravate any police officer as it poses a visual threat. In the reverse, how couldn't the officer tell that he was just a kid? Why didn't he negotiate or talk with the kid before hitting his last resort?

If this wasn't a case of blatant racism on part of the officer, then I don't blame him. His actions were based purely on instinct and training. Otherwise, I'll be damned.

**Dynam0** · 11-26-2014, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adlp

if the officer was able to tell that it was a BB gun in the first place, this wouldnt have happened. instead it looks like the officer was legitimately afraid for his life then he just did what he was trained to do. was deadly force necessary against this 12 year old? hell no. but confrontation with law enforcement becomes an arms race that the cops are required to win. with this kid brandishing a "gun" at a cop, it instantly escalated the situation to a lethal level if the cop really believed he was in danger while in the line of duty.

don't like that? take it up with their police department

Mind-sets like this are exactly what perpetuates the gun culture in America. You're essentially defending the improper use of a firearm with the justification that it was a "police officer and it's their right to act in this manner".

Quote:

Originally Posted by DotKritic

The BB gun didn't have the orange tip (or whatever colored tip BB guns have these days) to distinguish a real gun from a BB gun. News outlets say the officer demanded the kid raise his hands with the BB gun visibly in the kid's waistband. The kid instead pulled the BB gun from his waistband (if I remember correctly) and pointed it at the officer.

Just read this, and it's insanely similar to Michael Brown's scenario. A police officer's word against a dead boy's...it's a judgement call that begs an investigation but idk. Blindly taking the officer's word for it just doesn't seem right without an investigation.

tl;dr fuck guns

**adlp** · 11-26-2014, 01:06 PM

lol dynam0... they used physical evidence and not the officer's word alone in the case. stop letting your feelings get in the way of what "should have" happened

and im not necessarily defending that use of a firearm. im a student of criminal justice and that's currently the train of thought for deadly force.

**Dynam0** · 11-26-2014, 01:27 PM

There were a lot of inconsistencies in the officer's recounting and the physical evidence though. The fact that people are able to argue about whether his actions were justified or not should have been enough to have an indictment. It's not as much a fault of the officer as it is the entire justice system for setting so many precedents of police officers being dealt with in a lenient matter that suggests they are in some ways above or exempt from the law.

Also yeah I've heard about 3 different times that you've opened a law textbook or two. I have a degree in chemistry but I don't pretend that I have the right answer to every scientific question...so when you throw comments like that around maybe back your arguments up with some hard facts.

edit:

If you could provide me with the supporting evidence that lead to the grand jury not indicting the officer then I will be able to comment further on it and perhaps even change my mind. As it stands, the information I've looked at from a number of different sources makes me question why there was no trial.

**adlp** · 11-26-2014, 02:11 PM

dude all you have to do is listen the the prosecutor's remarks on why he couldn't indict

i've been posting from mobile for two days so im lazy to link it but it should be on youtube. and when you watch it, remember that the prosecutor is the guy that wanted the idictment.

**Kekeb** · 11-26-2014, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiz

Everyone has an opinion, and they are entitled to it. Unless your opinion helps cause oppression or suffering amongst others, then you are wrong.

I'm not sure if I understand, as that stance seems self-contradicting. If you assert there are circumstances in which someone isn't entitled to their opinion, that's oppressive by definition. It then follows that you aren't entitled to such an opinion.

**Ghakimx** · 11-26-2014, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPopadopalis25

"What is the race of the guy" is the first question that comes to your mind when you talk about assessing the situation of whether or not to use lethal force properly? What the fuck?

Forgive me, maybe that was inappropriate on such context. I live in Singaporean, so there's more multi-culturism as well as the appearance of foreigners whom may pose a threat. Just last year, there was a riot started by foreign workers, which hasn't happened in 40 years, so yeah, my mistake.

Edit: FYI police officers also need to know what race they may be to inform HQ over radio, no? Like, "suspect is a black male, mid-20s, wearing jeans" etc. I wasn't intending to be racist but this seems like the first practical thing to do as an officer, which is to convey information.

JurseyRider734 · 11-27-2014, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adlp

dude all you have to do is listen the the prosecutor's remarks on why he couldn't indict

i've been posting from mobile for two days so im lazy to link it but it should be on youtube. and when you watch it, remember that the prosecutor is the guy that wanted the idictment.

all of your opinions always sound like you only read other peoples' opinions that support your own.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...e7b_story.html

http://www.salon.com/2014/11/26/ever..._off_the_hook/

JurseyRider734 · 11-27-2014, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adlp

@dynam0 the cop did everything by the book.

according to the COP but if you actually listen to or read other eyewitness testimonies you'll see that this is most likely not the case, considering there are glaring inconsistencies in the story wilson has told about what actually happened.

keep in mind that Darren Wilson is trying to keep himself out of jail, and that Michael Brown isn't here to give us his side of the story.

**RB_Spirit** · 11-27-2014, 03:55 AM

Onions everywhere, what to do! Chop em all up, make a soup

MrGiggles · 11-27-2014, 04:31 PM

It does suck that even if this dude is innocent, which he seems to be, he can never be a cop around there again. He probably can't live there anymore, period.

Vares · 11-28-2014, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Blaster

Guys, guys..you're all forgetting the most important fact of all:

Seeing this post reminded me of this article I recently read about that part of Wilson's statement: What Social Psychology Says About Darren Wilson And Michael Brown
Thought that might interest you and others in this thread.

**Frank Munoz** · 11-28-2014, 04:00 PM

The reason there are riots is because people with power lie, and have lied constantly to keep them shut down.
Because people who peacefully protested for months are facing more consequences than Darren Wilson, and have been faced with tear gas, rubber bullets, armored officers, SNIPERS. These are legitimate reasons to want change.

There's more stuff to say but this is quite long enough

**adlp** · 11-28-2014, 05:03 PM

yo youre fucking dumb lol

11-25-2014, 11:05 PM	#81
s1rnight ( ¯u¯)-b Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 387	Re: Riots in Ferguson, Missouri lol police shot an unarmed 12 year old black boy for carrying a bb gun in a park as this news was even happening black men are already disproportionately targets of police violence and are killed despite being innocent and police routinely get away with it. sketchy evidence like this being enough for a police officer to get away w/ taking someone's life is precisely why people are angry

11-25-2014, 11:15 PM	#82
adlp FFR Veteran Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,757	Re: Riots in Ferguson, Missouri @dynam0 the cop did everything by the book. no ordinary cop is ordered to shoot to kill. they are authorized to use deadly force and shoot to stop. and according to the evidence, that's exactly what he did. the big issue is people and the media are inclined to focus on an individual's action when the real criticism should be aimed at the department that trained the officer to react the way that he did in this scenario. that's how changes are made in policing. __________________

11-25-2014, 11:22 PM	#83
DotKritic Forum User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Houston Age: 19 Posts: 2,964	Re: Riots in Ferguson, Missouri Would the timing of the announcement on whether to indict Darren Wilson have mattered? Or course not. There was going to be a riot regardless. Even though they waited until all the schools and businesses closed, they gave the protesters all the time in the world to assemble and prepare. __________________ FFR Member Since December 17th, 2004

11-25-2014, 11:31 PM	#85
Garquillex FFR Veteran Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Massachusetts Age: 33 Posts: 965	Re: Riots in Ferguson, Missouri I think the shooting was probably justified once it got to that point, but the entire situation may have evolved towards violence because of prejudice. Although if there was prejudice, I don't think this was a goal and there is some doubt to messing with such a large person. prejudice is boring as hell to me tho __________________

11-26-2014, 05:14 AM	#87
Ghakimx Cutie&Handshaking Sounds Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Xingapore Posts: 1,594	Just wanna give my 2¢ on this. I heard about this news somewhere and think it's tragic that a kid died at the hands of an officer. If I was the officer, if I saw the guy, I would try to assess the situation properly. What is the race of the guy? Does he look like he's old enough to wield a gun? Does the gun look legitimately dangerous? However, the officer may not have had enough time to assess these factors and acted straight off of training. Like, "Suspect looks like a black teen, is wielding a pistol and pointing at me, highly lethal, lethal force authorized". He would risk putting the suspect down to decrease the risk innocent civilians getting hurt as well as himself and his colleagues. What I'm wondering is why he chose to shoot him with a gun rather than use other armaments like a taser gun, which would have easily incapacitated him. Did the police force not equip him with it? I don't know. I always say, there is no one true person to blame for the entire incident, and that everyone is at fault. According to the officer's testimony, the kid WHIPPED out his fake gun and POINTED it at him. If this is true, then that would easily aggravate any police officer as it poses a visual threat. In the reverse, how couldn't the officer tell that he was just a kid? Why didn't he negotiate or talk with the kid before hitting his last resort? If this wasn't a case of blatant racism on part of the officer, then I don't blame him. His actions were based purely on instinct and training. Otherwise, I'll be damned. __________________ I AM ASHAMED OF MY STUPIDITY AND MUST COMMIT SEPPUKU. FORGIVE ME, FFR. Ninjas NEVER die. Now on a 30 kill streak. Last edited by Ghakimx; 11-26-2014 at 05:14 AM..

11-26-2014, 01:06 PM	#89
adlp FFR Veteran Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,757	Re: Riots in Ferguson, Missouri lol dynam0... they used physical evidence and not the officer's word alone in the case. stop letting your feelings get in the way of what "should have" happened and im not necessarily defending that use of a firearm. im a student of criminal justice and that's currently the train of thought for deadly force. __________________

11-26-2014, 01:27 PM	#90
Dynam0 The Dominator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: North Bay, ON Age: 34 Posts: 8,987	Re: Riots in Ferguson, Missouri There were a lot of inconsistencies in the officer's recounting and the physical evidence though. The fact that people are able to argue about whether his actions were justified or not should have been enough to have an indictment. It's not as much a fault of the officer as it is the entire justice system for setting so many precedents of police officers being dealt with in a lenient matter that suggests they are in some ways above or exempt from the law. Also yeah I've heard about 3 different times that you've opened a law textbook or two. I have a degree in chemistry but I don't pretend that I have the right answer to every scientific question...so when you throw comments like that around maybe back your arguments up with some hard facts. edit: If you could provide me with the supporting evidence that lead to the grand jury not indicting the officer then I will be able to comment further on it and perhaps even change my mind. As it stands, the information I've looked at from a number of different sources makes me question why there was no trial. Last edited by Dynam0; 11-26-2014 at 01:57 PM..

11-26-2014, 02:11 PM	#91
adlp FFR Veteran Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,757	Re: Riots in Ferguson, Missouri dude all you have to do is listen the the prosecutor's remarks on why he couldn't indict i've been posting from mobile for two days so im lazy to link it but it should be on youtube. and when you watch it, remember that the prosecutor is the guy that wanted the idictment. __________________

11-27-2014, 04:31 PM	#97
MrGiggles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Skaia Age: 21 Posts: 2,846	Re: Riots in Ferguson, Missouri It does suck that even if this dude is innocent, which he seems to be, he can never be a cop around there again. He probably can't live there anymore, period. __________________

11-28-2014, 04:00 PM	#99
Frank Munoz Vophie Join Date: Nov 2007 Age: 30 Posts: 1,964	Re: Riots in Ferguson, Missouri The reason there are riots is because people with power lie, and have lied constantly to keep them shut down. Because people who peacefully protested for months are facing more consequences than Darren Wilson, and have been faced with tear gas, rubber bullets, armored officers, SNIPERS. These are legitimate reasons to want change. But, ya know https://storify.com/betakateenin/white-people-riots maybe it's not as good as these... totally... understandable.... ones............ lies, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/1...n-Wilson-s-SUV Darren Wilson's testimony is just bogus- http://www.documentcloud.org/documen...en-wilson.html The media just refuses to report anything supporting the protest and trying to make sure you side with this white, racist cop, and further support their enacting of white supremacy. The damn KKK is back up because of this. Ya know.. those people who were racist and executed blacks about 200 years ago six eye-witnesses say Mike brown had his hands up, and five said Wilson kept shooting http://c-eye.tumblr.com/post/9704137...n-the-shooting Look at how the they skew every single piece of "evidence and to justify this death http://pathologyexpert.blogspot.com/...lf-truths.html and watch how actual forensic pathologist shame the accusations made about the case https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWUkBxmFUvU Here's an evidence list and grand jury transcript if you fancy reading everything http://apps.stlpublicradio.org/fergu.../evidence.html And in Wilson's testimony, he keeps saying how he was just vastly overpowered and struck several times but... have you seen his injuries? http://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/11/24...ilson-injuries absolutely fucking nothing and he's been funded over 500k, not even being indicted which is the easiest fucking thing to do, married another COP(http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...arried-officer) to help his situation if he did get indicted So, why are these rioters "mad"? "Looting"? "Out of Control"? "Burning flags"? Because the government has become a threat to the people. A list of blacks who have been killed by a cop for nothing 2014: Victor White III (Iberia Parish, LA) 2014: Dante Parker (San Bernardino County, CA) 2014: Ezell Ford (Los Angeles, CA) 2014: Michael Brown (Ferguson, MO) 2014: Tyree Woodson (Baltimore, MD) 2014: John Crawford III (Beavercreek, OH) 2014: Eric Garner (New York, NY) 2014: Yvette Smith (Bastrop, TX) 2014: Jordan Baker (Houston, TX) 2013: Barrington Williams (New York, NY) 2013: Carlos Alcis (New York, NY) 2013: Deion Fludd (New York, NY) 2013: Jonathan Ferrell (Bradfield Farms, NC) 2013: Kimani Gray (New York, NY) 2013: Kyam Livingstone (New York, NY) 2013: Larry Eugene Jackson, Jr. (Austin, TX) 2013: Miriam Carey (Washington, DC) 2012: Chavis Carter (Jonesboro, AR) 2012: Dante Price (Dayton, OH) 2012: Duane Brown (New York, NY) 2012: Ervin Jefferson (Atlanta, GA) 2012: Jersey Green (Aurora, IL) 2012: Johnnnie Kamahi Warren (Dotham, AL) 2012: Justin Slipp (New Orleans, LA) 2012: Kendrec McDade (Pasadena, CA) 2012: Malissa Williams (Cleveland, OH) 2012: Nehemiah Dillard (Gainesville, FL) 2012: Ramarley Graham (New York, NY) 2012: Raymond Allen (Galveston, TX) 2012: Rekia Boyd (Chicago, IL) 2012: Reynaldo Cuevas (New York, NY) 2012: Robert Dumas Jr (Cleveland, OH) 2012: Sgt. Manuel Loggins Jr (Orange County, CA) 2012: Shantel Davis (New York, NY) 2012: Sharmel Edwards (Las Vegas, NV) 2012: Shereese Francis (New York, NY) 2012: Tamon Robinson (New York, NY) 2012: Timothy Russell (Cleveland, OH) 2012: Wendell Allen (New Orleans, LA) 2011: Alonzo Ashley (Denver, CO) 2011: Jimmell Cannon (Chicago, IL) 2011: Kenneth Chamberlain (White Plains, NY) 2011: Kenneth Harding (San Francisco, CA) 2011: Raheim Brown (Oakland, CA) 2011: Reginald Doucet (Los Angeles, CA) 2010: Aaron Campbell (Portland, OR) 2010: Aiyana Jones (Detroit, MI) 2010: Danroy Henry (Thornwood, NY) 2010: Derrick Jones (Oakland, CA) 2010: Steven Eugene Washington (Los Angeles, CA) 2009: Kiwane Carrington (Champaign, IL) 2009: Oscar Grant (Oakland, CA) 2009: Shem Walker (New York, NY) 2009: Victor Steen (Pensacola, FL) 2008: Tarika Wilson (Lima, OH) 2007: DeAunta Terrel Farrow (West Memphis, AR) 2006: Sean Bell (New York, NY) 2005: Henry Glover (New Orleans, LA) 2005: James Brisette (New Orleans, LA) 2005: Ronald Madison (New Orleans, LA) 2004: Timothy Stansbury (New York, NY) 2003: Alberta Spruill (New York, NY) 2003: Orlando Barlow (Las Vegas, NV) 2003: Ousmane Zongo (New York, NY) 2001: Timothy Thomas (Cincinnati, OH) 2000: Earl Murray (Dellwood, MO) 2000: Malcolm Ferguson (New York, NY) 2000: Patrick Dorismond (New York, NY) 2000: Prince Jones (Fairfax County, VA) 2000: Ronald Beasley (Dellwood, MO) 1999: Amadou Diallo (New York, NY) 1994: Nicholas Heyward Jr. (New York, NY) 1992: Malice Green (Detroit, MI) 1985: Edmund Perry (New York, NY) 1984: Eleanor Bumpurs (New York, NY) 1983: Michael Stewart (New York, NY) 1981: Ron Settles (Signal Hill, CA) 1979: Eula Love (Los Angeles, CA) 1969: Mark Clark (Chicago, IL) 1969: Fred Hampton (Chicago, IL) 1964: James Powell (New York, NY) Yet, James Eagan Holmes, the dude who committed the Aurora 2012 shooting, was taken to trial alive and pleaded not-guilty because of "insanity" AND the judge accepted it... and this white man with a gun is "correctly" dealt with and NOT killed? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbxfM-UdKuY not to even mention all the other fucked up stuff going on around the world -Mexico/ 43 missing (kidnapped) students -Hong Kong/protest against the government for democracy -Sierra Leone, Guinea & Liberia/still fighting Ebola -The Middle East/ISIS and other terrorist groups killing innocent people everyday -Nigeria/Boko Haram and the kidnapping of 300 school girls and many more People are tired of inequality, racism, unconstitutional and unjust actions by those who are immune to consequence, and they want change. There's more stuff to say but this is quite long enough __________________ Unknown and Unofficial

11-28-2014, 05:03 PM	#100
adlp FFR Veteran Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,757	Re: Riots in Ferguson, Missouri yo youre fucking dumb lol __________________

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