Go Back   Flash Flash Revolution > Life and Arts > Health and Fitness

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-21-2014, 05:45 PM   #1
Arch0wl
Banned
FFR Simfile Author
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fb.com/a.macdonald.iv
Age: 35
Posts: 6,344
Default Understanding Peformance Enhancing Drugs

The NSCA's Strength and Conditioning textbook has a chapter on PEDs, because the NSCA believes that professionals in this field should understand what these drugs do and how they affect performance, since they are inevitably and invariably used at the elite level of athletic performance. I agree with their approach: if you are going to compete or even heavily participate recreationally in a kind of training or sport, ignorance of the advantages available to you or your opponents (however rule-breaking they may be) will only hurt you.

Why use the label "performance enhancing drugs" instead of "steroids"?

Not all PEDs are steroids, and for that matter not all steroids are anabolic. An enormous number of drugs are steroids; a steroid just any drug with a specific carbon-ring structure. Corticosteroids won't help you at all. Estradiol (estrogen) is a steroid but if anything supplementing this will harm performance in strength training, not help.

PEDs overwhelmingly come into two types:

1. bulking PEDs -- PEDs that help you add muscle, or speed muscle recovery. Almost always these are hormonal and usually (but not always) women should not take them.

2. cutting PEDs -- PEDs that help you retain muscle or burn fat, but do not necessarily help you gain it. Women can usually take these because they are not always hormonal.

The first one is what most people think of when they think of steroids.

Explaining testosterone, bulking PEDs and external hormones in general

Testosterone is overwhelmingly what most people think of when they think of PEDs. Backtrack a little bit, though: Why? The answer to this question will help you understand why steroids work the way they do in the first place.

Keep in mind that testosterone is produced by the body. Both men and women produce testosterone, but men produce more of it than women.

In fact, when a man has low testosterone and goes on testosterone-replacement therapy, this isn't called "using steroids." This is called testosterone-replacement therapy.

And when men take exogenous testosterone (external test. given via injection), it can be used as birth control. Why is this the case? Because it's the exact same principle that the female birth control pill follows, which is the exact same principle any hormonal birth control follows: administration of exogenous sex hormones will shut down the endogenous production of reproductive hormones. Meaning, if you take a sex hormone (testosterone/estradiol depending on if you're a man or woman) externally, your internal reproductive hormone production will shut down. So if you are a guy, your spermcount will tank and if you are a girl you will lose fertility. The female birth control is just female sex hormones (progesterone and estrogen) administered externally with a pill. Estrogen is the female sex hormone; testosterone is the male sex hormone.

Pills generally have shorter half-lives than esterified injectables. An ester is just an extended half life. So testosterone enanthate has a 7-day half life (or around this); testosterone laurate has a super-long half life at (if I recall correctly) 20-30 days. Depo provera is just progestin (progestin is synthetic progesterone, "progesterone" refers to the hormone that is endogenously (internally/naturally) produced) with a really long half life.

So when women get pregnant on birth control it can very well be because they didn't take pills with sufficient regularity, due to the short half-life. Sometimes injectables are a lot better for this.

Obviously, the shutdown is temporary and lasts for the duration you're taking the hormone. If this were not the case, women who take birth control would never get pregnant again.

Sometimes steroid use can affect the level of natural sex hormones produced, though. So long-term hormone use might make men produce less testosterone once they come off. I say "might" because most studies I've read show that nearly everyone can restore their levels of natural testosterone with enough post-cycle therapy. There are outliers, though, so I won't make any certain claims about this.

You might have been wondering this, because I did: why is the birth-control pill something you can get easily from Planned Parenthood, while testosterone is a schedule III controlled substance and considered an anabolic steroid otherwise? Further, why is testosterone replacement therapy in high doses considered an anabolic steroid, while testosterone replacement therapy in statistically average doses considered hormone replacement therapy? I have no idea, but it's probably a really stupid reason.

With this in mind you have enough knowledge to understand why steroids work in the first place.

Testosterone can function at an anabolic steroid because once your doses surpass what is naturally possible, you get higher-than-naturally possible levels of muscle growth. The NSCA cites a figure of 2-3 times the natural rate of muscle growth using anabolic steroids in their text. So, if you're using a shitload of drugs, your training is excellent (meaning you're not training like a gymbro idiot) and both your training and diet are adjusted to this new rate of growth, you can expect 2.5 times what you would have gained naturally. As you go above your genetic limits, this will drop down substantially, and will drop even more as you go further above the natural limit.

To put this in perspective, that's like earning a Ph.D. (which normally takes five years) in two years. Or a four-year college degree in a little over three semesters. However, this assumes you are optimizing everything. I can't stress enough how underwhelming PEDs can be if your diet and training remain what they would be if you were training naturally and for that matter if your training remains what it would be if you were training naturally. Without making these adjustments, you could run a cycle of high testosterone and barely notice a difference from your natural results.

Informally, I've noticed that a lot of guys cap out at around 360lb for their bench naturally, and I've noticed that people who reach their PED max can do something like 450lb with PEDs. Using http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLi...Standards.html as a reference, the effects are more dramatic with squats and deadlifts -- something like 500lb might be the max for squats and 550lb for deadlifts. So if you're already at your genetic max, you might expect +100 for bench, +200 for squat and +200 for deadlift going above it. Some guys can get +200/+300/+300 above what they would have gotten naturally, but they're huge outliers, physically and statistically.

Gains in muscle mass tend to disappear after exceeding the genetic maximum. Interestingly however, strength gains tend to stay after PED use because of concentrations of satellite cells and CNS adaptation. Several former heavy users have reported insane lifts like 800+lb squats years after ending PED use.

Some hormones like insulin and HGH are used to increase muscle mass far beyond what is even possible with testosterone. This is also the biggest difference between bodybuilders of the Schwarzenegger era (who himself used a combination of testosterone, metenolone enanthate (primobolan) and methandrostenolone (dianabol)) and the bodybuilders of today. Schwarzenegger had an FFMI of something like 31 or 32, while Ronnie Coleman has an FFMI of nearly 40.

The reason insulin and HGH have such dramatic results is because they shuttle all food into growth of the body. However, they are indiscriminate with what they actually grow -- meaning organs will grow as well. This is why Olympia-level bodybuilders now have such enormous guts, inspite of muscular abs covering the guts. HGH can also be taken by men/women prior to the age of 20 to grow a little bit taller, though this isn't always a guarantee. Note also that while growth hormones produce dramatic increases in size, they are not necessarily useful for strength -- the strongest powerlifters definitely take steroids, but don't show signs of insulin use.

Cutting PEDs

Cutting PEDs are gray areas a lot of the time, because lots of things can aid fat loss without necessarily increasing the growth of muscle. Clenbuterol is a great example -- it's a stimulant that aids fat loss and reduces catabolism, but amphetamine (aka adderall, AKA adhd medication) has similar effects. Is someone who takes adderall "not natural"? What about other recreational stimulants like cocaine or methamphetamine?

In general, anything that reduces muscle catabolism can be used as a cutting agent. Trenbolone is both one of the strongest bulking steroids and one of the strongest cutting steroids because it muscle wasting while using it almost doesn't exist; further, it's reported to have a nutrient-partitioning effect that is beneficial for muscle growth and preservation. While cutting naturally you might have to take your deficits slowly (500 calories per day) but using trenbolone you can have enormous calorie deficits without concern for muscle loss.

I will expand on this section later, because I'm limited in time and I think this section is the least important for understanding PEDs.

Side effects and why they happen

If a PED is effective, it's going to have a side effect of some kind. The hyped-up side effects of steroids are legendary. I will do my best to explain why they happen.

Testicular atrophy (reduced testicle size): This occurs because external administration of testosterone shuts down reproductive hormone production. The testes are responsible for producing testosterone, so if they're getting it elsewhere, they won't be enlarged and making it constantly.

This is both a temporary side effect and a counterable one. It's temporary because once testosterone production returns to normal, testes size returns to normal also. It's also counterable while using testosterone through use of human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG).

There is a myth that steroid usage shrinks the penis. This is both wrong and impossible.

Acne: Boys in high school get acne due to testosterone fluctuation. The same thing applies while using testosterone. Further, increased testosterone usually means increased estrogen, and increased estrogen usually means increased sebum production.

Not everyone is vulnerable to acne, however.

Acne while using steroids can be countered in several ways: through use of an aromatase inhibitor (anti-estrogens like anastrozole), through use of some other inhibitor (e.g. a prolactin inhibitor if the acne is prolactin-induced) and through use of acne medication (e.g. isotretinoin/accutane).

Baldness: Androgens accelerate baldness. This is usually a side effect that augments what was going to happen anyway -- i.e. if you get baldness while using steroids, you were going to go bald later in life. I believe there are ways to counter this side effect, although I'm not sure what they are as this is one of the rarer issues I've encountered.

Gynecomastia: This happens when someone greatly increases their testosterone levels, ceases testosterone administration and still has high estrogen levels. So if someone does not take an aromatase inhibitor while using steroids and does not take a SERM after cessation, the user will have extremely high estrogen levels. High estrogen levels usually means breast growth.

This is one of the more feared side-effects, although it's the most easily-countered with proper care and dosing. Some people are more vulnerable to this than others.

Virilization: This happens when women take hormonal PEDs designed for men. Some PEDs do not virilize, while some do. Testosterone for example will give a woman a hormonal profile of a man, and she can grow muscles accordingly. Meanwhile, something like oxandrolone usually does not virilize and will not produce any male traits in the woman taking it.

Virilization usually means hair growth when they didn't have it before, growth of the clitoris, deepening of the voice, etc.; it's unpleasant and most women don't want it.

Women can avoid virilization by avoiding steroids that do not virilize. There are anti-androgenic therapies for this, but frankly I've never looked into it.

Increased aggression ("roid rage"): By far the most hyped-up side-effect, but largely a myth. Some steroids do augment aggression in high doses (e.g. trenbolone) but people who act out under these steroids were the kind of people who would do this anyway without steroids. Excess testosterone largely does not cause increased aggression unless testosterone levels were low to begin with.

Left-ventricular hypertrophy and increased blood pressure: These are the side-effects that most people who use steroids should be concerned about, but are also the ones I hear the least about. I suppose the more superficial and trivial side effects like testicular shrinkage are easy potshots for audiences who don't know anything about the drugs.

Increased blood pressure is something you should already be familiar with. Steroids in general do this -- some more than others. Users will take medicine like n2guard to reduce blood pressure.

Left-ventricular hypertrophy is when the muscles of the heart itself (specifically the left ventricle) enlarge. This happens when steroid use is maintained over a long period of time and especially when cardiovascular activity is intense while using steroids.

Note that natural athletes can get LVH too -- steroid use just accelerates the process. Obviously, you should avoid intense cardiovascular exercise over long periods while on high dosages of anything like this.

Closing notes

I am not specifically endorsing the use of any of this; however, since this *is* a fitness board, and most competitive lifters *do* use PEDs, an understanding of the drugs they're taking is useful for putting their accomplishments in context.

Last edited by Arch0wl; 11-22-2014 at 03:55 AM.. Reason: formatting; will update periodically
Arch0wl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2014, 10:26 PM   #2
Arch0wl
Banned
FFR Simfile Author
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fb.com/a.macdonald.iv
Age: 35
Posts: 6,344
Default Re: Understanding Peformance Enhancing Drugs

(this is a work-in-progress; I will add information to the OP as people respond to it. it's not immediately clear to me what people do and do not know going into this thread, so I may have forgotten a lot.)
Arch0wl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 01:15 PM   #3
Snapps
NO DOUBT GET LOUD
FFR Simfile Author
 
Snapps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: California
Age: 33
Posts: 5,648
Default Re: Understanding Peformance Enhancing Drugs

cool
Snapps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 06:01 PM   #4
mr_candy
SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED
FFR Veteran
 
mr_candy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 196
Default Re: Understanding Peformance Enhancing Drugs

Great read, eagerly awaiting more. Would really like more details about specific steroids, post cycle treatment and inhibitors.

I'm not going to lie wanted to try them for years, never built up the courage/ knowledge to inject myself with steroids. I would love to know more about what I would use and how I would use them if I was in a position to do so.

Cheers
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by hi19hi19 View Post
Dossar reached critical mass after the 9th Official and ascended to a being of pure Stepmanian energy.
You won't be seeing him in any more competitions as he has already joined his life force with the arrows.

In our hearts, every competitor is Dossar now. that or I'm guessing he's busy in school and doesn't want distractions.
mr_candy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 06:36 PM   #5
gstarfire
FFR Player
FFR Veteran
 
gstarfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 256
Default Re: Understanding Peformance Enhancing Drugs

So, this is slightly more directed towards FFR, but are PED's allowed in tournaments? Sounds kinda stupid, and I don't necessarily mean steriods either. Like if somebody plays under the influence of some controlled substance, is that allowed? (E.G. Playing high or drunk, ect.) Not that I do this, but I was wondering if FFR is at that professional level.
__________________
gstarfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 06:44 PM   #6
mr_candy
SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED
FFR Veteran
 
mr_candy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 196
Default Re: Understanding Peformance Enhancing Drugs

Ohh yeah dossar has had to travel to meet halogen for a drugs test before when he got 8 goods on death piano. I think they are arranging to meet up with rapta too now for his drugs test
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by hi19hi19 View Post
Dossar reached critical mass after the 9th Official and ascended to a being of pure Stepmanian energy.
You won't be seeing him in any more competitions as he has already joined his life force with the arrows.

In our hearts, every competitor is Dossar now. that or I'm guessing he's busy in school and doesn't want distractions.
mr_candy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 06:46 PM   #7
Fission
no
Simfile JudgeFFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
Fission's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 32
Posts: 1,850
Default Re: Understanding Peformance Enhancing Drugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by gstarfire View Post
So, this is slightly more directed towards FFR, but are PED's allowed in tournaments? Sounds kinda stupid, and I don't necessarily mean steriods either. Like if somebody plays under the influence of some controlled substance, is that allowed? (E.G. Playing high or drunk, ect.) Not that I do this, but I was wondering if FFR is at that professional level.
does it really matter either way? it's not like it can be enforced.
Fission is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2014, 12:27 AM   #8
Tim Allen
B^)
FFR Veteran
 
Tim Allen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Age: 29
Posts: 1,129
Send a message via Skype™ to Tim Allen
Default Re: Understanding Peformance Enhancing Drugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by gstarfire View Post
So, this is slightly more directed towards FFR, but are PED's allowed in tournaments? Sounds kinda stupid, and I don't necessarily mean steriods either. Like if somebody plays under the influence of some controlled substance, is that allowed? (E.G. Playing high or drunk, ect.) Not that I do this, but I was wondering if FFR is at that professional level.
haha what
__________________
Tim Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2014, 12:45 AM   #9
Red Blaster
Bridge Burner
Retired StaffFFR Veteran
 
Red Blaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,040
Default Re: Understanding Peformance Enhancing Drugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_candy View Post
Ohh yeah dossar has had to travel to meet halogen for a drugs test before when he got 8 goods on death piano. I think they are arranging to meet up with rapta too now for his drugs test
Lmao
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by hi19hi19 View Post
edgelord Linkin Park adolescent angst music
Quote:
Originally Posted by choof View Post
hey great contribution to the thread cucklord the exit's up in the top right of your screen, it's called "log out"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funnygurl555 View Post
what's a milky christmas :O
Red Blaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2014, 05:06 AM   #10
Arch0wl
Banned
FFR Simfile Author
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fb.com/a.macdonald.iv
Age: 35
Posts: 6,344
Default Re: Understanding Peformance Enhancing Drugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_candy View Post
Would really like more details about specific steroids, post cycle treatment and inhibitors.
PCT is probably the most important part. If sufficient PCT regimen is not followed, this is where 90% of the negative side effects of steroid use occur.

"PCT" means "post-cycle therapy" but really it means both (a) cycle assistance and (b) post-cycle assistance.

"Cycle" is also misleading. People take steroids in one of two ways:

1. Cycling
2. Blasting and cruising

Cycling is what it sounds like -- for a period of time you use steroids, and for a period of time you don't. This requires a recovery period where your HPTA (hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis) tanks and returns back to normal.

Blasting and cruising is more sensible if you know you're going to be using for a long period of time; it consists of taking high dosages of steroids while "blasting", and low dosages (testosterone replacement therapy levels) while "cruising". Cruises exist to (a) give the body a break and (b) allow myostatin/receptor sensitivity to adjust back to baseline. (I've heard different theories about the myostatin/receptor thing, hence why I used a slash there. But it's largely known that the body can become resistant to heavy steroid dosages, similar to caffeine resistance.)

"PCT" can apply to both traditional cycling and blasting/cruising.

Understand this about PCT: steroids are non-fatal and generally harmless. The harm they do cause is self-inflicted, which should not be regulated. Further, the harm that is caused to the user is overwhelmingly non-fatal. (Deaths due to steroid use are extremely rare.) Steroids may accelerate death due heart-related factors if used in heavy amounts, but even this is preventable. (Note that Arnold Schwarzenegger is pushing 70 at the time of this writing.) Many people in their 70s have horrible health with bodily maintenance much worse than that from someone who engages in heavy steroid use, so I doubt they would severly shorten lifespan except in extremely heavy use (something like bodybuilder doses year-round, for years on end.)

However, also understand this: the side effects that steroids do create are so counter to what the goal of taking them in the first place was and so superficially jarring that the drug looks far more harmful than it is. Google "steroid acne" for some truly horrific images. I can imagine some idiot taking something like trenbolone without a testosterone base and no AI, PI or SERM, then campaigning against steroids on the grounds that others shouldn't experience what he did.

Understand that someone who uses adderall heavily (3x the recommended dose daily) is doing tremendous damage to their body, both short-term and long-term. But this isn't necessarily an argument that the drug should be illegal, because the result of misusing the drug is superficial and the damage is mostly internal.

With steroids the damage is mostly external and primarily cosmetic. Any serious health damage from from short-term steroid use is trivial, if not nonexistent. However, depending on how your body responds you can get acne that you'll fight for six months or more by misusing steroids for one cycle. You can develop breast growth that requires surgery to remove. Your hair loss can accelerate to the point of near-baldness.

All of these things aren't really harmful; they're at most extremely unpleasant, though not actually detrimental to health; however, they're so jarring to look at that the drugs that bring them on are viewed as more harmful than they are. Someone might see these side effects and think "anything that could have caused this with one cycle must be extremely harmful if used long-term."

This does not understand the nature of what the drugs do -- you could have these side-effects after two weeks of use or two years of use. The period of use doesn't matter. What matters is (a) what's necessary to achieve HPTA shutdown (b) what's necessary to achieve hormonal imbalance.

So to combat these things, PCT exists.

Most PCT consists of the following:

- Some kind of SERM off cycle
- An aromatase inhibitor while on cycle

Responsible PCT should look something like:

- SERM
- AI
- HCG, a few weeks prior to cessation

Kitchen sink PCT (e.g. if you're coming off of years of steroid use) would look something like this:

- SERM
- AI
- HCG
- HMG
- Some kind of natural testosterone booster (HCGenerate)

Inhibitors usually come in three forms:

1. Aromatase inhibitors (anti-estrogens)
2. Prolactin inhibitors
3. PDE3 inhibitors

Aromatase inhibitors come in two types:

I. Suicidal
2. Non-suicidal

Suicidal aromatase inhibitors like Exemestane (aromasin) both inhibit estrogen and prevent new estrogen from being created. How long they do this for is disputed.

Non-suicidal inhibitors like anastrozole inhibit estrogen for a period, but there is rebound and you can still get acne while taking it.

Prolactin inhibitors are used while taking steroids that raise prolactin levels. Nandrolone or any nandrolone-derived steroid (e.g. trenbolone) will do this. Prolactin is (among other things) what is released during the male refractory period, so increased prolactin suppresses libido and generally makes erections difficult. (This doesn't have the same effect in everyone -- some men can take trenbolone with testosterone and their sex drive goes through the roof, but they have difficulty maintaining erection.)

As for steroid-specific information, the most authoritative source on specific steroids is Bill Roberts. He actually has a PhD in Medicinal Chemistry, or supposedly does, though the depth of his writing would suggest he has at least the equivalent of a graduate-school education, so I believe it. He has a very rare combination of both (a) advanced education in chemistry and (b) experience using steroids.

For specific steroids -- what in particular do you want to know? Trenbolone, I'm guessing? Anything else?

Last edited by Arch0wl; 11-23-2014 at 05:30 AM.. Reason: terminology, will need to edit again later
Arch0wl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2014, 05:20 AM   #11
Arch0wl
Banned
FFR Simfile Author
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fb.com/a.macdonald.iv
Age: 35
Posts: 6,344
Default Re: Understanding Peformance Enhancing Drugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by gstarfire View Post
So, this is slightly more directed towards FFR, but are PED's allowed in tournaments?
I doubt it would matter, for two reasons.

1. So few players use PEDs. I'd be really interested to have, like, EtienneSM or Dynam0 on a steroid cycle just to see what happens, but I doubt they have $700 to drop on drugs they no idea how to use, nor any interest in using.

2. Not everyone responds to PEDs in the same way.

#2 sounds obvious. It sounds like one of those things you think you understand, but the implications are not fully drawn out for you when you first process it.

Some guys, naturally, can rival what some people would get with heavy steroid use. And some people are mediocre naturally but respond amazingly to steroids. Some people are amazing naturally, and then turn into gods when they take steroids. It depends.

I can tell you this: steroid use would matter far more in competitive ITG than it would for FFR. This is because DDR/ITG skill, from what I've observed, is the result of your calf strength relative to your body weight. To an extent, tricep strength matters also (to hold yourself up against the bar) but it's largely calf strength relative to body weight. Calf strength will develop far more with steroids than it will without steroids -- this is just the nature of the drug.

However, people who play these games train nowhere near optimally. They don't take into consideration carbohydrate portions, or protein levels, or rest periods or anything like that. The best players more or less wing it and their genetics do the work; if they do train successfully, they do it right inadvertently.

If someone who is currently a top player took steroids and trained seriously for the game, they would dwarf whoever the best player is right now. This is just the nature of exercise science.

With that said, steroid use would help you in FFR. Steroids enhance recovery periods, so your gains on a day-to-day basis would increase.

Also, stimulants (adderall/amphetamine and harder stimulants) are beneficial for finger-based games. I've had way higher scores while on adderall than I have without.

Presumably, someone could take a steroid regimen, structure their gameplay like someone who trains forearms at the gym every day, adjust their diet to account for this and take adderall while not on steroids for extra speed/concentration. However, I don't know why anyone would do this, because if someone is going to get committed enough to learning about steroids to take them, they might as well just go to the gym and get huge, since they have the knowledge anyway and the payoff for being muscular (being stronger than other people and having more sex) is so much more satisfying than the payoff for being good at FFR.

With that said, steroids in olympic sports are mostly to enhance recovery. In high dosages, steroids actually harm performance in a lot of olympic sports, since they tend to reduce cardiovascular endurance.

Last edited by Arch0wl; 11-23-2014 at 05:24 AM.. Reason: terminology, will probably need to edit again later
Arch0wl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2015, 01:26 AM   #12
Arch0wl
Banned
FFR Simfile Author
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fb.com/a.macdonald.iv
Age: 35
Posts: 6,344
Default Re: Understanding Peformance Enhancing Drugs

this article came out and it's amazing:

http://blog.chaosandpain.com/natty-o...ng-substances/
Arch0wl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2015, 08:08 PM   #13
Arch0wl
Banned
FFR Simfile Author
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fb.com/a.macdonald.iv
Age: 35
Posts: 6,344
Default Re: Understanding Peformance Enhancing Drugs

just realized the title is 'peformance' not 'performance'. go me.

anyway, some dude asked me about Bostin Loyd's stack and I ended up writing a lot, so, I figured it'd be useful to c/p here for people who take this stuff at face value so they avoid doing something stupid

---

Bostin Loyd's doses have varied depending on whether he's cutting or bulking. Frankly, his doses for cutting have been not much more ridiculous than the 800/wk test + 800mg/wk of tren stuff that you see on bodybuilding forums, so I'm not going to address that. The real insanity was in his bulking cycle. If I have this right, it was something like this:

Injectables
Testosterone (Sustanon) @ 2600mg/week
Testosterone (Propionate) @ 700mg/wk
Masteron (Propionate) @ 1400mg/wk
Trenbolone (Acetate) @ 2100mg/wk
Primobolan (Enanthate) @ 1050mg wk
Equipoise / Boldenone (Undeclyclate) @ 1050 mg/wk
Nandrolone (Phenylpropionate) @ 700 mg/wk
Injectable Winstrol @ 1050 mg/wk

Orals
Anavar @ 770mg/wk
Proviron @ 770mg/wk
120mg/day of evidently 'bunk' Balkan pharmaceuticals
T3 55mg/day
Clen 50-80mg daily (this is wrong right out the gate)
10-12iu GH
IGF-1 entire time (I don't know what "entire time" means in dosage)
Insulin Humilin R almost the whole time (I also don't know what this means)

So, a few things stick out to me immediately.

****A. There's no fucking way this gear is not seriously underdosed or outright bunk, for a couple of reasons.

1. Numerous accounts of him reporting bunk gear in the past

2. He does not have enough money for pharma gear. The most accessible 'pharmacy-grade' gear is Alpha Pharma, and the [REDACTED TO MEET FFR RULES] price list on [REDACTED TO MEET FFR RULES] is about the cheapest I've ever seen it. Pharma tren is, at cheapest, $70 for 10ml at 100mg/ml. He would be spending $140, weekly, alone, on tren. Primobolan E is $85 for 10ml at 100mg/ml. Don't even get me started on anavar -- 100mg/day at pharma doses is at least $70/week and this is assuming he gets it from an international source as cheaply as possible, but I'm not even sure he could ship that much product through customs. Seriously, you're talking like $700/week on injectables if you go the pharma route, another $300-400/week on orals, the insane cost of whatever GH and IGF-1 are and then the costs to ship all of this and transfer money through [REDACTED FOR FFR] or whatever, plus everything else that normal people have to pay for like food and gas. Unless this dude is independently wealthy, which I doubt, there's no way he's making the $2,000+/wk he'd need to pay for all of this.

3. Other people known for publicly admitting steroid use, like George Leeman and Pete Rubish, run FAR lower dosages.

4. Virtually none of the people who have admitted public steroid use give reason to believe they're the discriminating kind of buyer who would get a blood test or run a labmax on their gear or otherwise lose sleep over whether it's 'pharma-grade'.

So when he says 3,000mg/wk test or 2,000mg/wk tren, take this with extreme skepticism. This could easily be 1,000mg/wk test. If this were 2,000/wk of real tren, he'd have night sweats so hard he'd drown in his own sweat and chest tightness so intense he couldn't even lift a dumbbell. If he's even running real tren at all -- and it could easily be cut with NPP or just underdosed to fuck -- this could be as low as 500mg/week on his end.

Second thing that sticks out --

****B. Even if these were accurate dosages, which they're definitely fucking not, he'd have reached diminishing returns on this stuff a long time ago.

There's some reason to believe that testosterone reaches serious diminishing returns around 1,000mg/week to 1,400mg/week. The people who take 2,000mg/week tend to do so due to higher bodyweight and reduced sensitivity to the hormone, not because 2,000mg/week actually gets more results. The side effects from even going from 900mg/wk to 1200mg/wk are drastically increased, too, while the results aren't as much, and for each 300mg/wk increment you amp up side effects enormously with even less actual result.

But if that were the actual total amount of weekly test he was using, he wouldn't have needed to add nandrolone. Or boldenone. Or primobolan. He'd have maxed out weekly anabolism anyway. And he's far past the point of usefulness on all of these hormones, also. insofar as he's not getting anything extra by dosing them this high with the already high amount of test he's using.

His masteron dose is idiotic. Stacking masteron is already not that useful but masteron has a reputation for screwing joint health, and winstrol is even worse, and combining these two things in such high dosages when you're working with rapid growth rates is a really bad idea. I'm really confident his masteron is fake though, masteron is fake almost everywhere.

His clen dose is wrong. Like outright wrong. He means 50-80 micrograms. If this were milligrams he would die.

****C. Even though it's the sensible thing from a bodybuilding perspective, IGF-1/insulin is what makes this go from bad to really bad, longevity-wise

The IGF-1 is the only thing he's added that will actually get him extra growth beyond the stupid amount of test he's purporting to use. Note that other than abuse of orals, IGF-1/insulin what is rockets steroid use from "bad for long-term health" to "really bad for long-term health." You might be able to get to FFMI 28-29 with steroid use (and not IGF-1/insulin), but you won't get much beyond that. The average IFBB professional, in the more traditional mass-oriented competitions, is FFMI 31+ and I believe Bostin came in at FFMI 33+; ronnie coleman came in at FFMI 37+.

With each FFMI increment past 24-25 your body is supporting increasingly unsustainable amounts of mass. This on its own is detrimental for your longevity since greater amounts of mass require more bodily stress to support, but IGF-1 and insulin actually grow organs in addition to muscle, and the additional organ growth exacerbates the existing physiological stress of supraphysiological muscle mass. If you thought left-ventricular hypertrophy due to extra mass was bad, imagine left-ventricular hypertrophy when the growth hormones you're taking also accelerate the growth of the heart.

So he could be taking 1g of test/week every week for a year, and this wouldn't have nearly the same effect as stacking this with IGF-1/insulin.

***Other thoughts

I don't buy the claims that he's going to die at 35 or whatever. If his gear were legit, maybe. I'll be surprised if he lives past 50 or 60, though. He's far more likely to die by just abusing orals than he is anything else steroid-related, since if he has no quality control and takes, say, actually legit halotestin to the extent he's taking anavar here, he'll know really quickly what it's like to come close to liver failure. That's the biggest problem with his stack -- it's obviously a lot of underdosed shit, so he has no idea what he's really taking, and quality control is the first step to any risk-minimizing drug regime, even if it's risk-minimizing in the context of taking grams of testosterone weekly.
Arch0wl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright FlashFlashRevolution