Flash Flash Revolution - View Single Post - El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

**devonin** · 08-5-2019, 10:37 PM

Lets not make laws against murdering people. If murdering is illegal, criminals will still murder!

Like...come on now. This is one of the saddest and weakest objections to a claim that civilian gun ownership is generally bad and shouldn't be allowed except for hunting, sport shooting, and farm protection.

"But criminals will still get guns!" I have a few things to say about this.

1. Funny how all the places with more gun controls don't have a major gun crime problem like the USA does. So controls on access to guns, which you say criminals will just ignore, isn't resulting in criminals doing all kinds of gun things anywhere else.

2. I need to go find the actual study in writing, but I know a study was done where they went and interviewed a whole bunch of convicted criminals in prison for armed robbery with guns. These are all people who did it, admit they did it, were tried and convicted, so there's no issue with them claiming innocence or trying to do anything to get them off easier. They were all asked, among other things "Why did you use a gun in this robbery, why not something else?" and the -overwhelming- answer was "In case the homeowner had a gun." So you having guns in your home for 'protection' has the -direct- effect of making criminals MORE likely to use guns themselves, hugely increasing the risk that somebody dies from gun violence.

3. Limits on civilian access to guns would also depress criminal access to guns by reducing the total number of guns available, reducing the market for guns both legal and illegal, and it's not like anybody is suggesting "Just ban guns" and call it a day as a one-step process. Among other things the penalty for using guns in crimes could be increased etc to act as a further deterrent.

Fundamentally though, nothing is -ever- going to fix America's gun problem. The problem is guns, but the cause of the problem is intrinsic to American culture and the people in power have a vested interest in never addressing or changing the root causes of the problem, so it will never actually get better.

08-5-2019, 10:37 PM	#54
devonin Very Grave Indeed Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 40 Posts: 10,098	Re: El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC) Lets not make laws against murdering people. If murdering is illegal, criminals will still murder! Like...come on now. This is one of the saddest and weakest objections to a claim that civilian gun ownership is generally bad and shouldn't be allowed except for hunting, sport shooting, and farm protection. "But criminals will still get guns!" I have a few things to say about this. 1. Funny how all the places with more gun controls don't have a major gun crime problem like the USA does. So controls on access to guns, which you say criminals will just ignore, isn't resulting in criminals doing all kinds of gun things anywhere else. 2. I need to go find the actual study in writing, but I know a study was done where they went and interviewed a whole bunch of convicted criminals in prison for armed robbery with guns. These are all people who did it, admit they did it, were tried and convicted, so there's no issue with them claiming innocence or trying to do anything to get them off easier. They were all asked, among other things "Why did you use a gun in this robbery, why not something else?" and the -overwhelming- answer was "In case the homeowner had a gun." So you having guns in your home for 'protection' has the -direct- effect of making criminals MORE likely to use guns themselves, hugely increasing the risk that somebody dies from gun violence. 3. Limits on civilian access to guns would also depress criminal access to guns by reducing the total number of guns available, reducing the market for guns both legal and illegal, and it's not like anybody is suggesting "Just ban guns" and call it a day as a one-step process. Among other things the penalty for using guns in crimes could be increased etc to act as a further deterrent. Fundamentally though, nothing is -ever- going to fix America's gun problem. The problem is guns, but the cause of the problem is intrinsic to American culture and the people in power have a vested interest in never addressing or changing the root causes of the problem, so it will never actually get better.