[devonin]

Thanks for attacking my points and not me personally, adlp. It speaks to your maturity.

So how is that dense? Secular humanism is perfectly capable of suggesting courses of action that society generally deems "good" Things like not killing, not stealing, not assaulting people, things like showing respect to others, and their rights and agency.

These are all things that don't require religion to be modes of behavior you learn to adopt.

So anybody who is capable of being a "good" person can come to goodness through entirely secular means, they don't require God and the Bible to teach them that these are good actions.

And anybody who is NOT capable of coming to goodness on their own, pretty much by definition, need an outside influence to make them be good. And the ONLY outside influence that is granted by religion that is not granted via secular humanism is the promise of reward and threat of damnation in the afterlife.