[Cavernio]

Kitty: "I think what's "right" and "wrong" to a person usually is about themselves. Hurting others isn't "wrong," hurting ME is wrong"

One's actions are usually about themselves, yes, which is a separate thing. It is an aside to what I'm trying to show, and doesn't negate anything I've said. In fact, if you remove the motivator behind the individual's actions, what you said perfectly reflects what I've suggested as proof: If I believe you exist, and I believe it is wrong to hurt myself, then it is wrong to hurt you.

As to the revenge thing, I have never said there is a knowable right and wrong, and specifically said it is impossible to please everybody. Reasons like that are part of the impetus for me defining morality as the opposite of immoral acts.

magic: I'm damned if I don't and thanks to you apparently I'm damned if I do too :-p