are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vague?
 

clearly, what is called "nice" or "respectful" varies from person to person, and something like "you should just be nice" is a moral simplification.

any sort of moral code, or rule, or law based on ideas like:

"just being nice" or the converse "don't be a jerk"

"being a decent person"

"respect others"

will be inherently vague, and open to large debate. people's values will change how they interpret these words -- someone who seeks feedback about their body and wants to be flattered will think you are being "mean" if you tell the truth, while someone who wants objective fedback will think lying to spare their feelings is deeply inconsiderate. the vagueness of "being nice" will cause problems later, as there is no common basis to interpret what being nice or respectful means.

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

people fucking suck and no one deserves any form of intrinsic respect

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

respectable position

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

I think the lines between respecting and being nice are often tangled together, even though it's possible to be respectful without necessarily being nice, and vice versa.

The issue as a whole is that respect and niceness are both subjective and open for interpretation, and a good intentioned comment or action could lead to someone actually feeling disrespected or let down, or sometimes being respectful requires some un-niceness, which can be interpreted as disrespect.

I think naturally, whether right or not, being nice helps people get the idea that you're being respectful, as long as it doesnt dip into condescension... I also think theres natural bias integrated with niceness and respect, due to anything such as ideals or affiliations or even how someone is regarded, that clouds opinions on where the lines are drawn for these topics.

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

I think respect is earned but niceness/politeness should be an expectation until there is a good reason for the contrary

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

Imo, a simple form of respect should be given to anyone, and whether or not it gets more reformed or lost is up to the person being given that respect.

Respect in my thoughts is to be straight with one another and to not have selfish use of someone. Being respectful isn't always nice, especially when you have to put a friend in their place. "Being nice" is like "have your friends back, even if they're wrong" and i don't agree with that.

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

I also see a difference between being respectful and respecting someone/something

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

I dont think respect is earned personally, I feel everyone deserves a default level of respect, and then it can be more or less depending on how they are

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

here is a discussion where there is widespread disagreement over what is nice/respectful:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreak...fourteen_year/

* people in favor of this think the friends are sparing him jail time, and that this is the only way he will learn

* people against think that this is barbaric and that there is no justification for violence

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

i mean, it depends on the situation lol, no one who would abuse a child whos mind isnt fully developed deserves respect lel, now there could be an argument made for 14 being mentally developed enough but lets be real its really not

Search up some guy named Ian Watkins from a band named lost prophets, when ur found out to be doing something thats considered morally reprehensible amongst literally every single person with a functioning brain, people aren't going to respect you lol

basically the guy like, was a hardcore pedo to the point where he exploited like, 2 year old babies and shit, in interviews his bandmates said they had no idea it was happening but if they had found out, they would have killed him right there on the spot, so....

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

"respect" and "being nice" is generally vague.

Direct people will tend to just straight out say the truth.
Indirect people may just tell you half truths in hope you get the idea and figure it out.

The former may appear like they're more harsh/not sensible.
The latter may appear like they're holding back intentions or being confusing.

There's probably other types of people, but I believe they can be classified in the above 2 groups.

If you're looking for a middle ground that would be ideal, I'd suggest looking up affirmative statements and to potentially try to integrate that your "arsenal" of ways to talk to others if you didn't already.
Definition: The term "affirmative" is a synonym of the term "positive." It indicates an attitude of acceptance or approval toward a previously expressed statement or idea. An affirmative response is sometimes referred to as an agreement.

So, 3 key elements that comes in mind:

- Talk about the topic, not the person.
- Maintain agreement
- Stay constructive

Maintaining agreement can be particularly difficult when you disagree with someone because you may feel the urgent need to correct them.
This is where communication tend to break.
The trick is to take the controversial statement that appears wrong to you and to test it out with your ideas to see what the other side has to say about it.

If you're having a conversation with someone doing this, I believe it's unlikely something goes wrong.

tl;dr: I think people who doesn't communicate with affirmative statements are likely to run into issues sooner or later with someone who doesn't see things the same way they do.

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

Nice and respect aren't the same thing. You can't respect someone without there being a reason for you to. You can be kind to that person and kind is pretty universally known. Respect is appreciating a quality a person has or something like that. Just because someone didn't take what you said or did as nice, doesn't mean it wasn't respectful or something like that. Im dumb don't listen to me

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

Does it matter for how people should be treated ?

I think how people feel about each others and how to communicate are two very different topics.

I just don't see a way to be practical about "being nice" and "respect" due to these words having multiple interpretations. So, it makes more sense to me to just optimize how to approach communication overall.

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

People should be treated with respect as a human and as politely as a situation sees fit in my mind, that's how I was raised
I think it does matter because some people think you have to be nice to people, or some people think that everyone deserves respect. Everyone deserves to be respected and treated nicely, not necessarily meaning that you have to respect and fit the arbitrary definition of niceness

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

treat people with respect to their face, shit talk behind their back, thats the way to live by

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

you have this completely backwards

the nicest thing you can do to a friend is to check them when they're wrong and this requires that you do not respect the flawed person that they are

that most people think "nice" means avoiding confrontation at any costs no matter the damage it causes to themselves or others is basically why what choof says is 100% correct

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

i mean objectively yea people are worthless and 100% of people will hurt or disrespect others if its in their own best interests or personal gain, but like maybe if we pretend its not the case it wont be

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

Don't bully celirra on the forums please

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

would you prefer i act more like him and just do it exclusively behind his back

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

If a person isn't automatically respectful to you, show them that you can be funny or unpredictable and they'll respect you.

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

So when you want to respect somebody, and they say "Please change this behavior you exhibited towards me, because I don't like it" the vagueness has been removed: You are now presented with a situation where somebody has made it clear that you are not "being nice" or "respecting" them.

Do you respect their ability to identify for themselves when they feel that way? Or will you only accept it if somebody can formulate an objective meaning for "be nice to me"?

Like...isn't it a pretty clearly understood concept in modern adult society that "Be nice to me" means "Don't do things you think will be mean, or things that, having done them once, you've been informed are not in fact nice"?

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

Yes

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

I'd rather have celery bully me than mina because celly boi has an extremely good voice

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

Can confirm

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

ouch ok with friends like u maybe celirra will realize constantly and exclusively talking shit behind everyone's back doesn't make him a good person

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

you're right i always have his back

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

sometimes i think and try to figure out what i did to garner animosity from people
then i realize c'est la vie eh

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

this is why analytic philosophy was a good idea

The aforementioned advice is always is context-dependent, and thus statements like "You should be nice to people" strictly speaking aren't actually statements because they have no truth value

This is why moral precepts are so hard to define

They are almost entirely interpretive instead of descriptive, but that doesn't make them useless -- they still largely serve as good heuristics for pro-social behavior.

The advice is just that: advice, not some declaration of proper moral behavior

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

I agree with this. I always treat people with respect initially (like I give everyone the benefit of the doubt), if they're gonna be an asshole - then I won't waste my time/energy on them.

I have this lady at work (who is in her 50's - not that age matters), that constantly runs around in circles and complains about how busy she is. So I'll give her a hand, and on multiple occasions she will yell at you and say, ' I didn't need your help, why are you young people so disrespectful and trying to take my job '. 🙄 I'm not sure how me helping you to be less stressed is me being disrespectful. 🤷

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

it's probably 'cause your nickname is celery

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

you have such a sad worldview

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

i guess it is sad but it's also realistic

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

But it's trivial.

It is not defined to what extent of interest the hurt is meant, and that just voids the whole point of value. For example, one could kill a person for a 5$ bill while another one could only kill if their whole family was in grave danger. And saying people are objectively worthless is true only under the assumption that life has no intrinsic value, which is (afaik) a subjective matter of discussion. So yeah, trivial statements.

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

Anyone can decide the value of anything from their own perspective so, it seems weird to me that you guys would assume other people are worthless.

Being selfish is part of life because you have to take care of yourself first or else you won't have the health/energy to do anything.

That doesn't mean you don't care about others. It's just a logical priority.

There should be room left to invest yourself into others and get something constructive out of it.

If I met a stranger, I'd be respectful at first to try to get a feel of who they are and if it feels like we're both interested into having a discussion on a similar wavelength, I may eventually just say how I really think about things in a more straightforward manner. It's like layers of politeness/comfort. People do filter what they say and I think it's a mutually understood concept overall because people tend to do this unconsciously.

If you give respectful/nice vibes to people they may pick up on it. If you have no faith in them, they might pick up on it too. People can kind of read into each others and get a decent idea of what you're about. So, if you're hoping for a specific conversation, you'll have a better chance if you share concerns about it rather than trying to put others on some sort of imaginary pedestral based on how you think they are.

tl;dr: It's relative to how you want to perceive your own environment and people.

(lol, I'm kind of saying that ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" are both mutually understood, but also potentially vague because I'm not aware of if this is something everyone would do, but I just assume that's the case.)

My guess would be that she's more the indirect type and if you help her without asking her, she may be confused by your intentions and say that.

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

Cestlavielirra

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

It doesn't matter if you ask if she wants help or not, she refuses it either way. She's the type of person that panics/complains she's busy instead of actually doing the work. Because we work in emergency, it's so important that you work in a team, accept help (I feel like she sees help as being 'weak' + she's already said that myself and other young staff are trying to take her job) and if she's flustering about not doing anything productive, while refusing to accept help, I'm just gonna do it. Cos otherwise things won't get done. Trust me, myself, management and several other staff have called her out on it a million times with no improvement.

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

Being nice to me is a way of emotionally showing respect. While showing respect is a systen of using your value system to create intrinsic value for others, and create a logistal loving energy.

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

Ahhhh arch thread

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu
 

that's why I'm a genie in my bottle.

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vague?
 

stop it

Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vague?
 

i would like to thank devonin and dabackpack for the good posts