Steroids / Gear
 

This thread is all about... well, steroids/gear. Discuss your opinions, thoughts, questions, etc.

Disclaimer: Please respect rule 2 as described here.

Re: Gear
 

What kind of gear?

I'm thinking of building a home gym since I'm looking to buy a house in a few months.



Unless you're talking specifically about the other kind of gear.

edit: Oh I see ;)

Re: Gear
 

I meant steroids, etc. I should probably just relabel the thread.

Edit: Sweet squat stand, though. Made a new home gym thread here: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...d.php?t=143990

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

Thoughts? Massive utility in pushing your physical boundaries but probably something that shouldn't be used unless you're extremely knowledgeable on the matter and an advanced lifter.

Like, if you can't write me a technical essay on steroids pharmacology, dosages, cycles, risks etc you're probably not ready.

I know a lot about them but it's not something I will ever use though because of sides and illegality. I'm happy with natural limitations.


TRT + HGH seems like a Godsend for older men though and when my T levels start to decline I would definitely consider it.

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

the following things should not be illegal to possess or buy:

* testosterone, which is produced by the body
* GH, which is produced by the body
* IGF-1, which is produced by the body
* GHRPs, which accelerate bodily production of GH
* nandrolone, which is produced by the body in small amounts

...you can see where I'm going with this.

I am extremely pro-testosterone being available for everyone. It makes zero sense that women can get estrogen for birth control at fucking Planned Parenthood but testosterone is unavailable for men.

nandrolone too, to a lesser degree.

every other steroid: not so much, although it *is* asinine that primobolan is illegal despite its roughly side effect-free profile.

the "intermittent thoughts" series by Suppversity is essential reading on this subject. read all 7 entries. I'm not joking whatsoever. http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2012...ilding_29.html

pretty much essential reading also: https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index

also: http://www.anabolic.org/anabolic-steroids/

other things

* I give little credit the idea that a person can take steroids and explode when they weren't previously, unless the cause was low testosterone to begin with, in which case maybe. too many factors influence muscle growth that, say, extra androgenic receptor concentration would suddenly make the difference. most people taking them would probably notice a significant increase in muscle growth, but nothing so drastic that you will become a completely different person in 3 months. this is my judgment after seeing the results of dozens of cycle reports from fairly normal lifters taking what I know is legitimate product.

* estrogen matters more than people think for size gains since it relates to IGF-1 utilization. nuking estrogen is a horrible idea. SERMs also inhibit IGF-1 use by the body.

* GH matters a lot more than people think for gains from anabolics, because GH is converted into localized IGF-1 which in turn is converted into MGF.

* conversely, if you had exceptional gains naturally to begin with, these gains will probably be even more exceptional when aided with anabolics, although the possibility is always there that they will be underwhelming.

* blast/cruise is generally more effective than cycling.

* medium-strength doses (so, say, between the high end of normal and a little over supraphysiological) taken over a long period of time (6-12 months) are where the results of these hormones tend to show, not so much over periods of 2-4 months, since you're looking at the cumulative effect of an extra 1-2lb per month usually (which might not be dramatic over 3 months but will certainly be over 12 months)

* the above is definitely true when looking at how GH is produced; you want elevations over long periods of time, and GH takes a long time to elevate. you might see jack shit from steroids if, say, you crash diet for 3 months then jump on, because your GH production would be just starting to recover.

* I am not the only person to say this, but the effect most people can expect from steroids, in terms of their max lifts, is about 1.15x to 1.25x whatever that lift was. realistically it'll probably be around 1.25x. this means if your maximum possible bench was something like 360lb naturally, about 430 to 450lb might be possible with steroids. this sort of thing goes out the window when you start analyzing people who bench 600+lb, for the record, but they'd have probably benched over 450lb and possibly even over 500lb naturally to begin with. steroids are much more dramatic with respect to, say, size gains over long periods than they are strength gains.

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mvz-yKvx_s&t=6m50s

People talk shit about him all the time but, this is what happens in the bodybuilding world.

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

http://pastebin.com/LkwiVjJc

Arch/Reach: Thoughts on this? Seen this passed around in a few places.

Gonna read/watch all your linked articles and vids when I get home.

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

why? why would you want to ruin your own manhood?

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

...you know nothing about any of this if this is how you think the mechanism of androgenic hormones plays out

testosterone is the primary androgenic hormone responsible for male sex characteristics

the primary steroid bodybuilders use is...

...testosterone...

and the endocrine system regenerates testosterone naturally after coming off. because aside from exceptions like aromatizations it functions in more or less the same mechanism as estrogen does when given to women for birth control in the combined-oral contraceptive pill that is ubiquitous across the developed world.

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

yeah I've seen this too many times to count

they're mostly true generalizations stated as absolutes for people who do not have the competence to evaluate edge cases

like, "caber E5D when taking nandrolone" is probably good advice for the majority of people since the majority of people will run something like 500mg deca / 500 mg test. it's probably excessive if you're taking, say, 300mg deca 500mg test or 200 mg deca 400mg test or whatever.

"never recomp" is good advice for the majority of people since the majority of people will fuck up recomps

"only run orals for 4-8 weeks" is good advice since the majority will run, like, superdrol or some stupid high dose of dbol for that time period and will do stupid things like have a drink on these dosages, when in reality someone taking 5mg or 10mg of dianabol daily (who does not drink, or does so rarely) could probably run that dose for a year without problems.

and so on.

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

things I have written on this subject:

1. Birth control's role in widespread androgen deficiency in women and its implications for the field of psychology

2. PSA: How birth control works and what this means for you (an explanation of testosterone as male birth control)

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

This is exactly why I tend to bemoan the legal status of various gear. Seems to come down to... what, sports?

Like, estrogen is a steroid hormone... it's just not anabolic (afaik).

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

I think what he was saying was, "why would anyone do this if they are aware of the side effects of using steroids?" Or something like...."why cheat yourself?"

I'm not as educated about this topic to really go along with this conversation and will probably never use steroids(for lifting) in the future ;however, that doesn't stop me from just reading about them.

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

probably because virtually every side effect associated with steroids can be avoided or is controllable in some way

the most common one (smaller testicles) is a non-issue and is a result of the testicles not producing LH/FSH to the degree they used to. solution: HCG, but then you also have a sizeable spermcount again, and can get women pregnant. so most guys just choose to not do this, because it's effectively being on birth control.

others, like acne, is a result of estrogen levels and/or some other kind of aromatization. this can be prevented using aromatase inhibitors or outright acne medicine.

gynecomastia is purely a result of post-cycle estrogen levels and is prevented with SERMs/PCT.

"roid rage" is a myth.

I could go on, but it's frankly pointless because side-effect listings tend to list documented or potential side effects, not things that happen, and when you understand their mechanisms they're easy enough to prevent.

the only side effect worth giving a shit about (which coincidentally no one ever mentions when they're superficially discussing these things) is myocardial hypertrophy or arterial plaque deposition. both can be mitigated or prevented with sound dieting and cardio, but the fact that people never bring these things up tells me that they don't understand how these hormones work on the body at all.

you can't 'cheat' something when there are no rules.

this is a nonsensical statement outside of the context of sports, and steroids are arguably not even cheating in sports. one because they're almost certainly used by all parties -- Jason Blaha used to be paid to help athletes avoid drug test failures, and has several videos explaining how easy it is -- and two because it makes an arbitrary priority of coincidental genetic advantages over access-to-drug advantages.

in other words, you can argue that it gives someone a hormonal advantage over another person, but... the people competing had a hormonal advantage over others without even doing anything.

let's put this in perspective and apply this reasoning to games we're familiar with. in Stepmania I probably have a genetic predisposition toward greater finger endurance than a lot of people as evidenced by how long I can jack at fast speeds. if some kid took steroids to have more of this than me, that's not 'unfair', since I had a greater advantage over others to begin with and I didn't do anything to get it. I'd merely be putting undue emphasis on some lucky circumstance, and besides -- all of us still had to put in the playtime, anyway.

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

right.

it's a steroid hormone, and it plays a role in anabolic processes, so you don't want to nuke it, but it's not directly anabolic on skeletal muscle like testosterone is.

Vitamin D is also a steroid, for the record.

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

bill burr is consistently great

he's someone I'd want to hang out with as opposed to most celebrities where you're just unsure if these people will be intolerable in real life

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

Im glad i dont, good luck with the celebrity lifestyle and good luck with love life later on in life! of course, i wouldnt know!

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

you probably wouldn't, yes, based on what you've objected to here.

replying with cookie cutter fake-politeness and overuse of exclamation points, while maybe rhetorically convincing to you, is still not going to repair complete ignorance on your part.

Re: Steroids / Gear
 

xomegaxweapon: See rule 1 of this subforum.

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...d.php?t=137524