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-   -   TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=145930)

andy-o24 11-15-2016 04:41 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
I'll say this: the PM does not say, "if all wolves are killed, you win." And there is nothing else to suggest an alternative win condition. Town is the only way I can think to read it.

-o24

mellonxcollie 11-15-2016 04:56 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4493684)
Precarious, Vendetta, theknightsofneeee, mellonxcollie, and Tokzic all are conveniently inactive.

I subbed into a slot that already has suspicion and there's not much I can do about that. But I have not been "conveniently inactive". I subbed into the game one hour before the last phase ended, tried my hardest to quickly read the thread and made a vote. This phase started when I was already asleep. I can't say anything regarding Zenith's (in)activity but I just needed to say that.

It makes it hard to catch up because there are so many inactive players and substitutions though. I keep forgetting about people and there could definitely be some wolves in there just trying to slip by. So I do understand the suspicion.

Anyways I'm starting to read the thread from the top now. This seems like a very confusing game

gold stinger 11-15-2016 05:51 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-o24 (Post 4493743)
I'll say this: the PM does not say, "if all wolves are killed, you win." And there is nothing else to suggest an alternative win condition. Town is the only way I can think to read it.

-o24


gold stinger 11-15-2016 05:53 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
If you didn't get a PM saying "if all wolves are killed, you win"

What team do you think you oughta be on

gold stinger 11-15-2016 05:57 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR WIN CONDITION

IF IT'S NOT "if all wolves are killed, you win."

gold stinger 11-15-2016 05:59 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
andy

gold stinger 11-15-2016 06:00 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
You get that vote until Shado throws his knife you're welcome

ShadoWolfe 11-15-2016 06:26 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gold stinger (Post 4493753)
andy

No. Get the fuck off him.

ALL of you need to stop basing your suspicion of him on untrue angleshooty nonsense. XelNya, you're totally wrong about the "standard" you spoke of.

I just went back and checked the role PMs of every town who flipped, and none of them listed a wincon.


Quote:

Originally Posted by TWG Ike (Post 4492986)
AragakiAyase was discovered dead, with a single arrow lodged between their eyes.

AragakiAyase's Role PM is as follows:

AragakiAyase, you are Rolf. You are a child who has joined the Greil Mercenaries as a budding Archer. Your inexperience often shows, both in camp as well as on the battlefield.
You are too young to know much, and are vanilla town.
Not included in initial PM: Rolf has a Loved Modifier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWG Ike (Post 4492764)
In the night...

Charu has died

Charu's Role PM is as follows:

Charu, you are Tauroneo. You were one of Daeinís Four Riders, a legendary band of generals said to be capable of winning any battle. After Ashnard became king of Daein, you resigned your role, but remained in service of the king. You were stuck defending Navassa, deep in the hideaways of the mountains, far from any military action. After Navassa was successfully invaded by the Begnion Royal Guard, you defected to serve Ike personally, not wanting to see the swordsmanship Gawain, one of the other Four Riders, passed onto him go to waste.
You are far too busy with battle plans and strategy meetings to have any amount of free time, and are vanilla town.
--------------------------------------
Not included in initial PM: Cannot use items and cannot have items used on them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWG Ike (Post 4492643)
andy (1)- Charu
charu (1)- Precarious
xel (5)- roundbox, V, freezin, Tokzic, Shado
zenith (1)- Xel
freezin (5)- gold stinger, storn, Haku, wine, Lar
Shado (2)- AA, Yoshl
unvote (1)- freezin

was the votecount at the time of post #1085

post #1085 contained text that was directly copy pasted from FreezinIce's role PM.

FreezinIce has died, his flip is as follows:

FreezinIce, you are Devdan. You are anÖ interesting Halberdier, to say the least. You kinda like flowers, but youíre also just really, really weird. You have this strange affinity for children thatísÖ honestly kind of creepy. You donít really seem to care, though. You just wanna admire the flowers.
Once during the game, during a night phase, you can leave camp to find a flower field. You cannot be targeted by night actions when this happens.

The 2nd post in the thread will contain all cardflips with accompanying role PM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWG Ike (Post 4493566)
storn42 has died

MixMasterLar, a Third Party, has achieved his win condition and has been removed from the game. The game will continue as normal.

MixMasterLar, you are Volke. You are a mysterious Thief, without any desire for human communication and an obsession with gathering as much wealth as you can. You have been given a strange contract, one to kill any member of the camp of the Greil Mercenaries after determining the identities of four members. It doesnít make any sense, but damn, does it pay well. You have even already been given a sizable downpayment.
Each day phase, you may guess the identities of four living players by PMing me your guesses without any penalty to yourself, and you will learn how many of these, if any, are correct. Should you get all four guesses correct, you must kill one of these four players in order to finish your contract.
Each night phase, you may follow someone to their bunks, where you will learn any action they perform, as well as the identities of this person as well as their two nearest bunkmates. Doing so means you cannot be targeted at night, but if the person you are tailing is killed, you will die as well.
You win when you have finished your job. Should you finish your job, you will be removed from the game as their is no purpose to you remaining.

storn42, you are Largo. You are a behemoth of a man, a Berserker to be more specific, who claims to have wrestled two tigers at once and won. You are the mate of Calill, a Sage. You both seem to be pretty content with your accomplishments, no matter how farfetched they seem, one thing is for sure, you and Largo enjoy each otherís company.
You are masoned with [REDACTED], who is Calill. You may discuss whatever you want with them in your private chat, which may be anywhere, so long as I may be present as well. You may discuss here only. You should discuss with one another using whatever means you wish where you want this private chat to be during the pregame phase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWG Ike (Post 4493561)
In the night...

Yoshl has died

Yoshl's Role PM is as follows

Yoshl, you are Shiharam. You are a Wyvern Lord, originally a soldier of Begnion, you defected to Daein after the corruption of the Senate became too much for you or your soldiers to handle. After learning that your daughter had become disgusted with several Daein practices, you have decided to join her side in search of a just lord to serve. Your ability to outmaneuver any person you wish can stop them from performing most actions.
Each night phase, you may send in the name of a player. This player will be prevented from performing most actions.



See? Stop being angleshooty dumbasses and start doing something worthwhile in thread. His role is inherently town. He might be a third-party but I doubt it, and he's clearly willing to work for town after exposing himself like this and gifting me a knife. If you read the previous PMs I listed above, you can see that there's no explicit wincon. I can totally understand a new player reading their PM and not being able to place themsleves 100%. Especially if its something like Devdan, which just seems totally null even now.

Now can we please stop talking about PMs entirely?

XelNya 11-15-2016 06:36 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
I wasn't trying to angle shoot intentionally, but in ANY other game the wincon is in your pm.

Its actually bad its not in this case.

I also didnt state i thought he was scummy for it.

Im not going to go further on it than that. Andy dude you put us in a good spot assuming you and shado are town. I'm waiting till that plays out to judge because what you did is townie in nature.

But we cannot just clear you off it unless it plays out properly. That's all.

andy-o24 11-15-2016 06:39 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
I was about to make that point, Shado. Thanks.

And to Xel, I don't expect to be cleared because of it immediately. But I am trying to help town win, so let's lynch some wolves!

-o24

mellonxcollie 11-15-2016 06:54 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
This game just has pages and pages of people who are already dead talking to each other. It wasn't too bad to catch up compared to other games I've played actually. Iím going to look into what each player were saying but for now Iím going to focus on people who are still alive


Scum leans:

Precarious - Scum lean. The way that he has been absent doesnít look good but the low effort posts he has been making look worse. This post in particular
Quote:

Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4493086)
Quick gut reads:
....
Better reads based off of more than instinct will come after I get some sleep.

Seems particularly out of character for him.

In the last game we played together, he was quite adamant about using more than just gut instinct in reads. His posts also generally seemed very well thought out and he gave off majorly town vibes immediately. He was thinking hard about the game and his scum-hunting instinct was clear.

This game seems like the complete opposite from him. It seems like he is putting in the lowest amount of effort possible and trying to blend into the background. His posts seem a lot less thought out. In the posts he does have, it seems like he is not scum-hunting in this game

Andy - The whole way that his claim happened and basically everything he said was super fucking sketchy. Shadow was the one to bring up the fact that he had a knife before Andy did so Iím not sure how that clears him? Maybe I need to re-read this interaction but to me it looks hella wolfy. It seems like he is trying to play the dumb card which can be a very good winning strategy. Itís not angle-shooting to acknowledge that the way he is speaking is extremely suspect and seems like an intentional distraction

Town leans:

Shadow, Xel and indheart. I originally pegged Xel as potential scum after reading just a bit of last phase but after reading most of the game he seems like townish Xel to me. Roundbox has a slight town read but seems like he is putting in minimal effort

????????

Tokzic - I didnít like his opening post and the way he just voted for Storn off of a gut read. This seems like he just wanted to get a vote out there to avoid suspicion from not voting, without any actual reasoning behind it. This would not be super suspicious on Day 1 normally but it was weird because he popped in and did that but didnít come back until EOD. And heís been largely absent ever since. However this doesnít seem too out of character for Tokzic

Wineandbread - I like his reads generally and he seems to have good logic. But I just havenít seen him posting enough to get a good idea of where he stands in the game

Gold stinger - I kept forgetting about him when doing my reading which doesnít give me a good feeling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gold stinger (Post 4493140)
Decided I don't very much care for this game all that much anymore after the 4 - 5 days or so of playing. Guess I shouldn't play TWG anymore. It's still fun to read at times though, I just am not a fan of all the thinking. Į\_(ツ)_/Į

This post is kind of fair but also kind of what??? Seems like an excuse to just ride along until the end of the game without putting effort in

V where the hell are you, seriously


I know I forgot a few people. my reads and thread-read is not 100% complete but I have to get going now just wanted to post this. There are definitely wolves in my ??????/inactive category.

ShadoWolfe 11-15-2016 07:02 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by XelNya (Post 4493763)
I wasn't trying to angle shoot intentionally, but in ANY other game the wincon is in your pm.

Its actually bad its not in this case.

I also didnt state i thought he was scummy for it.

Im not going to go further on it than that. Andy dude you put us in a good spot assuming you and shado are town. I'm waiting till that plays out to judge because what you did is townie in nature.

But we cannot just clear you off it unless it plays out properly. That's all.

Yeah the first part of this is true and I feel your sentiment on the second part.

I shouldn't have gotten so triggered but goddamn I didn't wanna see a modkill happen if that line of questioning continued. Andy's role makes him vital to town even if he were TP, which I don't think he is.

Watch me say all this and then die when I use the knife lmao
Nahh but at least I'll have caught a scum if I do.

ShadoWolfe 11-15-2016 07:16 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Good hot post @mellon, especially sections on Precarious and Andy. I obviously disagree with your conclusion on Andy, but those are valid points. I had even thought that I should've asked him who he had gifted that phase before outting my knife, but I had already hit send on my knifeclaim. I don't think it's terribly important, though, because it was clear that I was going to pressure him on nonexistent items this phase, so his gift makes sense to me.

XelNya 11-15-2016 08:46 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4493766)
Yeah the first part of this is true and I feel your sentiment on the second part.

I shouldn't have gotten so triggered but goddamn I didn't wanna see a modkill happen if that line of questioning continued. Andy's role makes him vital to town even if he were TP, which I don't think he is.

Watch me say all this and then die when I use the knife lmao
Nahh but at least I'll have caught a scum if I do.

Hey it is a good thing to call out people on their shit. Get triggered.

Also lol mellon

Wineandbread 11-15-2016 09:08 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
gs's reaction to andy's post seems a bit extreme to me, blown way out of proportion.

I looked back on Precarious's posts and there's really not many. I can buy that he's busy but the posts that he did put up didn't really say much. He's not really looking for reds and puts up a bunch of half-this, half-that. (I might be guilty of the latter too though lel)

Going to keep a vote on Precarious until he responds

I liked mellon's latest post and that she's challenging the status quo of andy's "lock-clear". Town lean for now.

I don't have much of an opinion on knight for now.

---

For DFR's posts, he very early on reads gs as town from the one good he made prior to this comment. It's suspect but I actually did like gs's post (#301 for reference). I think he overly defends him, probably attempting a pocket

Of else to note is that he expresses his opinion of Wolfe as town (#601), but switches in (#1327). GS stayed the same, doesn't change for the entirety of his posting lifetime.

As storn mentioned, he votes MML at eod. He expressed his interest in voting for him but it would be easier for him to self pres by switching to mellon or andy. He said he wouldn't vote andy, and gave mellon the benefit of the doubt for subbing in. I think given what he said, if he voted for either of them and lived to the next day, it would look extremely hypocritical of him and he'd get grilled to oblivion if he got iso'd. So the fact that he defends/doesn't vote on andy and mellon are not indicative of their alignment, in my opinion.


That's all from me for now folks

Wineandbread 11-15-2016 09:10 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Oh in case it wasn't explicit in the above, I'm still a bit spooked on why dfr defended specifically gs so adamantly

ShadoWolfe 11-15-2016 09:47 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wineandbread (Post 4493780)
As storn mentioned, he votes MML at eod. He expressed his interest in voting for him but it would be easier for him to self pres by switching to mellon or andy. He said he wouldn't vote andy, and gave mellon the benefit of the doubt for subbing in. I think given what he said, if he voted for either of them and lived to the next day, it would look extremely hypocritical of him and he'd get grilled to oblivion if he got iso'd. So the fact that he defends/doesn't vote on andy and mellon are not indicative of their alignment, in my opinion.


That's all from me for now folks

I like Wabbys post here in that he said that DFR's vote on MML instead of an easy self pres on andy or mellon is not indicative of their alignment. It'd be really easy for a wolf to push on andy based "I'm not for voting for andy", and wabby doesnt do that.
Of course, it's possible this was his intention, but I'm inclined to think he was genuine.

andy-o24 11-15-2016 10:28 PM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
The R.E. Aryxi/Hakulyte/theknightsofneeee slot is pretty interesting.


405 ShadoWolfe calls him out on lackluster reads and general inconsistencies. I can agree with this analysis, and definitely see a scum lean based on R.E's play. 409 was also interesting as this promise never materialized and this was his last post in the thread. He was replaced with Hakulyte in time for the first EOD. Not keeping his promise is a bit fishy, but alignment indicative especially as he was later replaced? I'll keep the scum lean from ShadoWolfe's previous analysis.



629 Haku defends against ShadoWolfe's original push on R.E. saying he doesn't know where R.E. was going with his reads. It would seem from this that replacements do not get to interact with whomever they are replacing, and that is probably a good thing. I mention that for my own reference, more than anything. This is an attempt to wipe the slate clean from anything R.E. did so Haku can focus on his game instead of trying to justify R.E.'s play. Smart from Haku, but I think slot indicative reads from before the replacement are always still relevant. Still a scum lean.

635 he uses the phrase "the others" interestingly. I would assume the way to interpret "the others" is "the other townsfolk" but I would much rather have seen him say that explicitly. That's all I wanted to analyze from that post, the rest seems like him being aware of the playstyle of the player whose slot he is filling.

758 I had pulled out of his posts, I think mostly because of AA's ideas moreso than Haku's themselves. The trying to push a town read on someone else is a little weird. But Haku's admission that Freezin flipping red would mean a lynch of Haku leans him back away from scum. To less scum, but still scum because of R.E.'s play.

1165 here again we see some weird phrasing with "you guys" instead of including himself in his reference to the town. I understand he's on vacation or whatever and doesn't necessarily have the time to commit to the game, but it still feels like if he were truly town, even if he couldn't participate, he would include himself. If nothing else, just to be a little safer.

1268 was after the AA kill (which we didn't know at the time, but was we assume from DFR). Instead of a Haku post, we have ShadoWolfe again bringing up Haku's meta. "Analytical wolf, shitpost town" From the evidence available, Haku is posting analytically, which if this meta is true, would mean he is scum.

1273 I'm honestly not entirely sure what Haku is saying here. Some pronoun game going on, but Shado kinda blew up the tell that Zenith posted about shortly after this post by Haku.

1297 I don't really know a good spot to put this, but I think it's an interesting post. The very end of it is relevant to Haku, here. The immediate jump to gunsmith role (which we now know is wrong if I'm understanding gunsmith) was a little fishy. I don't think that necessarily indicates scum, but I don't think it really helps a town case.

1310 Haku takes on MML about being read scummy for the shot on AA. I think most notable is Haku saying "I'm definitely constantly worth revisiting at any phase of the game." However, this is in response to the claim that he shot AA. We can assume with a great deal of certainty that dfr shot AA and that clears Haku from that possibility, but the last thing he says is the kicker here. Haku doesn't know how else to express his game other than what MML reads as "A wolf who hasn't read the thread." That is not an admission, but I don't think it bodes well for Haku trying to sell himself as town.

These two posts 1340 and 1346 seem to suggest Haku defending Zenith, even after ShadoWolfe called out Zenith's claim about the R.E. tell. I still have Zenith (mellon now) pinned as scum, so Haku trying to defend a scum read is a scummy thing in my book. More scum evidence for Haku's slot.

1367 includes Haku's "so many wolves vs towns" as referenced in this post by ShadoWolfe. To ShadoWolfe's post, though, I don't recall Zenith ever answering those questions he listed, so I would like to see melon try to answer them if possible since she assumed Zenith's slot.


Nothing to say on Knights at this point, but I think I gathered some decent Haku stuff for analysis. Please use this as a springboard for further discussion. The layout is a little ass, but I think the content is there.

-o24

Pazzaz 11-16-2016 04:42 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
@mellonxcollie Nice read-list. It seems the knife threat worked. I'm missing me though, any thoughts on me?

Also, lets put some more pressure on _Zenith_

XelNya 11-16-2016 04:56 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pazzaz (Post 4493811)
@mellonxcollie Nice read-list. It seems the knife threat worked. I'm missing me though, any thoughts on me?

Also, lets put some more pressure on _Zenith_

You obviously haven't read anything?


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