interesting punch force comparison
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvh382yoNYI

the average guy's range for this seems to be 20,000-30,000; a strong kid is maybe 10,000. the strongest punch on this machine is Jake Pacer Allen, a UK strongman who hit 94,000.

what's interesting to me is that this seems to correlate with bench press, i.e. average guy can bench about 120 and this guy can probably bench 450 which is very close to the ratio of the average punch to his score. it'd be interesting to see even stronger people doing this thing.

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

I'd love to try this machine.

I'm sure many heavy weight boxers and MMA champions could beat this guys punch, and those guys definitely have big bench presses.

It's going to be a combination of pure upper body force, which bench press is a crude measure of, and technique.

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

F = ma

Bench press will give you upper body mass and mostly impulsive strength (for that matter) in a pushing motion against mass.

When punching you use that impulsion partly but certainly not Mostly. You get the mass from how heavy you are. The acceleration part comes mainly from punching technique and starts from your feet. The momentum transfer through rotation of the different parts of your body (which bench press builds nothing of that except a few muscle contraction/extension speed) is what will yield the best acceleration for your mass. This is basic martial arts science.

Unless you actually have a big enough dataset to make a definite correlation on bench press max and punch force, I don't believe you can make that assumption with just that info. The people who bench press probably don't Only work on their bench press.

tl;dr, it probably helps, but there's no real evidence that it helps significantly more than other strength workout and no there's no way it helps anywhere near punching technique practice.

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

to say the two are correlated is pretty intuitive (how would you argue the converse case?)

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

proof by contradiction, find someone who has huge upper body who can only throw weak baby punches, obviously

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

You don't prove a correlation wrong with contradiction lol. It's stats, not a theorem.

But anyway dinm0 why would it be "intuitive" ? My point was it's maybe correlated for the stuff I mentionned (you gain body mass + impulsive strenght) but that's irrelevant because most workouts do the same thing + martial art punching training (or combat sports) would help so much more.

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

Absolutely, I would expect that any exercises that produce upper body hypertrophy would produce an increase in punch strength due to gains in mass.

With that said, while I would assume the heaviest MMA/Boxers and Powerlifters would score highest force on this punching machine, even total force isn't necessarily relevant to how effective your punches are. Knowing how and where to punch someone is far more important than punching them as hard as possible, so I agree that technique is by far the most important factor.


Still, would be fun to give this thing a try.

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24276310
https://sci-hub.cc/10.1519/JSC.0000000000000329

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

Arch what especially do you find interesting about those correlation coefficients ?

To me it seems like the mean propulsive power from squats rightfully has the highest one. But all those exercises/skills would definitely help develop a stronger punch.

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Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

this is basically my fitness goal for my whole life

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

and I can tell you why

it is somewhat misleading to say that squats help you develop punch force because a lot of people will take this to mean that like, glutes and hamstrings will help you with punch force

the main things about a squat that help you are

1. hip muscles
2. quad muscles, specifically the quad muscles used in a quarter squat

hip muscles are enormously important in punch force. MMA fighters all have ridiculous obliques, if you haven't noticed.

quarter squat is a joke of an exercise for training purposes, BUT it is by far the best exercise to improve vertical jump height

http://www.stack.com/a/quarter-squat...jumping-higher

rack pulls from the knee probably have a similar effect

so it makes sense that squat, but especially quarter squat would have this effect

I would also imagine the second half of a bench press (engaging more shoulders and serratus) would have a far higher correlation with punch force than the first half

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

Punch force is easy to understand. The hard part is understanding the resistance and damage capacity of the cranial and facial structures.

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Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

coy, modest, humble, restrained, fuck you i'm a saiyan

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Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

agggghhh its throwback thursday xd

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

I mean, yes ?

Are we agreeing here that bench press isn't much relevant to punch force IN COMPARISON to maaaany other exercises ? If not, could you please let me know what I might have misunderstood ?

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

no, bench press still has a huge correlation

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

I'm not sure about that, although you're welcome to elaborate because I'd like to hear what you have to say

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

Huge compared to what ? Playing ffr ? Please elaborate.

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

I'd rather get punched by the guy at 1:34 instead of 1:05 in OP's video haha. Seems like any change in height during the punch greatly reduces the force read by the machine

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You can curl a dumbbell all day and get strong arms, but there's no exercise to strengthen the defensive aspect. The skull bone will still be less than a centimeter thick. Would you walk across a 1cm thick bridge?

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

The average correlation between bench and punch force in that study is around .731, meaning that 53% of the variance in punch force can be accounted for by 1 RM Bench Press.

That is a very significant correlation in and of itself, you don't need to compare it to anything else to recognize that it is significant.

Though given that all of the correlations in that study are very large and in the same range, a simple interpretation is to assume a factor analysis would reveal a single underlying variable that accounts for the majority of the variance in all of those measurements. You could call that the general strength factor, which is just a statistical way of saying that if you take any reliable measurement of someones strength, it will be highly predictive of their punch force (and if those correlations are in any way accurate and reliable, strength would be the single largest predictive variable of punch force).

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

I feel like questioning correlation between upper-body strength and the force it can produce is kind if unnecessary

This is fun to read though

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

yes and no

it's not necessary for people who have trained bench to any major degree. it becomes obvious past a certain point.

it's necessary for the general public who thinks bruce lee can defeat the mountain with his fingers or something

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

Solely based on experience (15years of martial arts) I have only rarely seen someone big throw a stronger punch than someone relatively smaller (talking about body and muscle size here) with better technique. That being said, the studies linked in this thread are only about raw strength and doesn't show how much punch training the people have.

Now your point; you say there'd be a common factor to strength... Like what, their muscle fibers size ? You'd probably be right. But thing is, if A, B and C have a common factor F, and D needs all three to happen, then there's nothing special about neither A, B or C. (Say A is bench press 1RM, B is squats and C is abs strength, F is your factor (w/e it is) and D is output punch force for example).

You can say all you want about how bench press has strong correlation, cause it's true, but that's pretty intuitive and the fact that many other things/exercise have a correlation as strong or stronger than it makes it totally uninteresting.

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

i think it's simple enough to say that greater mass = greater force and higher strength is essentially your ability to move that mass at higher speeds
so it makes sense that someone who works out (bench increasing chest,shoulder mass + higher strength) would have a higher punch force

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

Well, as a fellow martial artist, I would like to clarify the point I think you're trying to make; the difference between pure strength of the punch in terms of newtons of force vs how much the punch hurt. These studies only measure pure force, but technique can make two punches of the exact same force feel radically different, which is probably why the line gets quite blurry.

As for the common strength factor, it was just a guess I haven't done the factor analysis myself, but I would suspect that yes it's muscle fibre size. Given that measuring strength is an indirect measure of muscle fibre size and any given exercise will measure this to some extent, it would explain the data.

And I would argue it's actually a very interesting finding, even though it's obvious.

I would argue though that it's very interesting because of the size of the correlations. They're so significant that if the general factor between them is muscle fiber size (which I suspect it is), it would mean that if you wanted to improve athletic performance in any sport where force of impact is relevant, the single most important variable of the athlete you could improve would be muscle fiber size. Which is extraordinarily relevant in modern sports given the overwhelming amount of steroid abuse (or even...necessity?) happening among elite athletes. This is question at the core of many new sports e.g. crossfit, or MMA etc.

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I can agree with this. Thx for taking the time to elaborate

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I don't really know much about this subject, but I would think that this would be false. Bruce Lee had an incredible punch force and he was not very big at all.

Pretty sure he wasn't really benching regularly either.

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

exactly. Bruce Lee was ninjaku. like in FFR, timing, accuracy, and speed results in more points, more force. lee was renowned for doing 1 finger pushups. where the bench press is a great chest exercise, a pushup has more freedom of movement and can stimulate other key areas in the arm. very important when considering punches. punches are also limited to the amount of force the hand, wrist, forearms, elbow, and shoulder can withstand as well which is why I recommend using hand grips to strengthen hand, wrist, and forearms; and resistance bands to work elbows, triceps, biceps, and all that. ya never know when you might have to fight a grizzly bear or a tiger or something so ya gotta be ready.
these things are $8 a pair at wal-mart, $3 at the five below discount store and will increase your finger, hand, wrist, and forearm strength by 700%

interesting punch force comparison
 

You do not have to respond to them, you dont have to read them. You make that choice and must expect backlash just as the person who would put up something opposing Christianity must expect opposition.

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Good advice

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i saw this thread on the sidebar and was like "holy shit is arch back"

fucking spambots ruining my evening with disappointment

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lmk when the day comes so i can ban myself from this site staff

Re: interesting punch force comparison
 

he's permabanned for being a chud, no need to worry about him coming back lol

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no its bc raeko is using her overarching site powers as admin to mastermind some conspiracy against him and turning the site staff against his true intellect!

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no its cause choob is a big choobler

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overarching site powers

over arch

is it my bed time