Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

Let's say that back then, Tass was the one who would make otherwise unaccepted files accepted.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

I miss files like those, they were the shiz.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

But if people enjoy them so much today, is it right that they were unaccepted prior to Tass's intervention? Wouldn't the stats show that Tass was actually correct in that case?

Just a question of motive. Is FFR here to give files that are judged with the same eye as a piece of art, or do we want files that people find fun regardless of anything else?
Why are so few people determining what is fun for the millions of users this site has, especially if files that are commonly considered by the elite to be "bad" are the ones most played and frequently brought up as the most fun?
I've always felt the judging process was somewhat hypocritical in this way, one of the reasons I don't want to get involved with it.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

There's already been a million debates on this before. I feel like judges are starting to get a little more lenient now than they were in the past though.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

Not really a bad thing, if you ask me. But what is a bad thing is when we start letting off-sync nonsensical files in. That would be a problem.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

I sent fixes for La Cereza Caliente just now.

I am allowed to send fixes for it since it got 13/15 right?

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

Yeah I know, I had this discussion a lot before with Tass over AIM and I know all the arguments and stuff.
I'll be honest I am rather happy with the current judge system, it feels a lot smoother than before certainly, and the incidence of "comments I completely disagree with" is far, far lower lol
I think a lot of this is owed to Jimerax being an amazing manager (#1 fan) but the judging is a little more sensible too. And I don't honestly see any alternative that's better so of course I'll tolerate the system as I have to- no point in complaining when I can't suggest anything better, really.


Nevertheless i find it's a good question to pose now and then. Exactly what are we judging and what is really the goal... it's worth thinking about to make sure everyone doesn't lose track of why the game is fun.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

Well there are factors unrelated to the file that you must take into consideration. People like these files often because of nostalgia or remembering the "good old times of the FFR site" which is often irrelevant to the file itself. The file might be complete crap but people will love it because of the time period that song reminded them of.

Once again, a bunch of factors. The judges have their own set of criteria...someone might be on the more technical side, while someone else might be a lot more lax and just focus on what's fun. I think just about every judge will take fun into consideration, but a judge might let an error slide while another might be more critical of it.

Most frequently played and most fun doesn't -always- go hand in hand. Consider the difficulty of the song, the unique aspect of that song (e.g. crowdpleaser trill = WHORE IT), the nostalgia factor once again, and the number of players who play FFR casually vs those who post on the forum and are more vocal about their personal likings (i.e. an "apparent" majority when really you're looking at a small sample of players on the site).

I mean, there are so many factors, that it's hard to even pinpoint a few general ones. Especially when you're trying to define "fun".


A generality I'd like to point out though is that those who speak out about their concerns are more likely to get the changes they wish. It's like voting. You don't vote, you don't really have a voice to speak out for. So overall, we tend to comply to those who post on the forums, get active in the community, and voice for the change.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

Really there's no way to get a "perfect" judging system unfortunately. All we can do is try to get as close as possible. Everyone knows there are flaws and many ideas have been brought up, one of which I think JX is trying soon if I'm not mistaken.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

For the sake of the argument, I don't care about the judgement on Fleeting Fantasy.

I'm simply offering easy advice. Do not let technicality be the weighted factor in judging files. There are plenty of good files that can be made with the old school approach. If a file is offsync or notes are clearly off (bad use of rainbow syndrome) then that's one thing. But if a file isn't technical or layered enough, then it should matter.

I don't know what to think about the judging process of today. It's hard to have a solid standard of how things should go and what mindset to use when there are 12 judges. I personally liked it back when it was just me and jimerax judging. Tass' opinions got in the way more than I would have liked and some things got rejected that shouldn't have been and vice versa

There is a way to have a perfect judging system. Have ONE judge, PERIOD. But that judge has to be someone very very familiar with all styles and have a ton of history and knowledge of the game. I think these seasoned members should have the ability to judge correctly. There needs to be balance between technicality and fun factor. (the same shit thats been said a million times before)

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

I'd be most happy with all 12 judges playing every file, to be honest. The more reviews the better, especially from a wide range of skill levels and mindsets.

Of course that's asking a little much so I feel the current system is a decent compromise.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

I don't have any new ideas for judging. The one judge thing is the best way to do it fairly, but we've been down that road before. As the site got more popular, more submissions were made, and the workload got way too big. That's why we got to 3 judges, then 5, now 12

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

two groups of 6 judges.

bam problem solved

how i judge a file:
start with 20 points

is it on sync? if no -12 points
is every sound represented one way or another? if no -10 points
is there a new technique being employed? if no -20 points
when i close my eyes and listen to the song is the file similar to what i imagined? if no -20 points
is it fun? if no -5 points

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

you forgot "is it by dossar? yes -15 points"

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

btw, can someone make a point list of the last batch please (sry if I miss it)?

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

I'll do it.

Edit:
Did it in an excel file, so sent it by email.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

Excel.. nice, thanks.

wow, 62 files have 13+ rating out of 97 files already.
I doubt we really should do voting for borderline (12) files with this acceptance rate.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

It doesn't seem fair to throw out 12/15s just because there were a lot of good files in the batch. They were just as good as 12/15s from any other batch, and should have the same treatment.

I'm not really sure why you're against having a lot of files in FFR - if they truly are good files, there's nothing wrong with having more of them. There are already over 1000 public charts, so if you're worried about there being too many charts for a casual player to handle, we definitely already reached that point.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2 (Submission Closed)
 

with that many accepted files id rather have all borderline files worked on and refined instead of being voted on