Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

i can sit down and do them all in one shot, or i can do them periodically every few days. in the end, i'll have sat down the same amount of time.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

you may as well do it all in one chunk so you have the same mood and mindset for the whole thing

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

That's my way of seeing it too. I take very minor breaks after certain points of the batch (like every 7 files), but I still do it all in one sitting.

^

How about this, regardless of when the notes get in, release them on the deadline. No complaints about taking too long, no complaints about the deadline being too far when only x amount of judges are not finished.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I don't like doing them all in one sitting. I prefer to spread it out a little so I'm not missing things just because I want to get it done. It just like my classwork if I stare at it for too long I start to look over certain details because I've been working on it for so long so I take breaks. Same thing with judging I do a few the day I get them and work on it through the time allotted. I don't see why that would be any problem.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Judgement team of this time (sorry Arch, but you're backup this time).

[Team 1]
Gundam-Dude
kommisar
Slivuh
psychoangel691

[New files - 23]
From "12 Bar Bloops" to "Giants In The Ocean", excluding "An Unwanted Magician and a Cheery Rebel", "Dance and Zeal", and "Fatum Anima".

[Resubmissions - 4]
From "Ready to go" to "Try Harder".


[Team 2]
Patashu
TC_Halogen
i love you
qqwref

[New files - 23]
From "Grasp Reality (FFR edit)" to "Nyanyanyanyanyanyanya!" and "Sun and Stars", excluding "I Remember When".

[Resubmissions - 4]
From "-Glorious Morning-" to "No Salt".


[Team 3]
bmah
who_cares973
dore
buizel8888

[New files - 23]
From "Passage D"(by 2 submitters) to "Youshou 02" and "An Unwanted Magician and a Cheery Rebel", "Dance and Zeal", "Fatum Anima", "I Remember When", excluding "Sun and Stars".

[Resubmissions - 5]
From "A Battle for the Sky" to "Fast Asleep".


Judgement Deadline: 11:59:59 PM(CST/Server Time), Mar 7, 2011.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Judge teams look a little messed up compared to last time haha.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

@jx: probably should change this:

to something like


edit: haha, I like "Slivuh"! ;)

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I meant,

-Glorious Morning- (ichliebekase)
In The Wind (bmah)
Metro (DossarLX ODI)
No Salt (Silvuh)

look at this picture for the order.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...10208final.png

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

ok, it comes up in a different order on my computer then
edit: -Glorious Morning- (or any file that begins with a symbol like "-") may be switched in a different order for some computers
edit2: that explains why I missed some files last time when initially doing reviews

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I'll see you in 20 days :)

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Just played through my groups part of the batch and I really liked what I saw ^_^ which is really nice considering last batch. Now to go into the editor.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Of course! Two of the files I sent are in your section. XD

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

can terminal 11 be banned from having songs stepped?

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

im serious

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Hahaha, Halogen, the irony. =P

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

WASN'T ME, MY FILE IS ON DF - BLAME DOSSAR/ZIER/EVERYONE ELSE

seriously though, I'm glad I didn't submit it here -- after conversion, it got completely massacred with framers... :cry:

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

t11 is fun to play >:3

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

My two terminal 11 files were experiments on certain things. Nosedive that I sent into this batch is interesting for its overall density (and I even convert the files to see framer placements too!)

Next batch I'm looking into Tonedeff/Futuristic Sex Robotz for hip hop since that's a desolate genre, as well as Theatrix (I sent an email requesting permission, they have some cool rock songs that could make shorter fun files). Most of the current permissions aren't satisfactory to me.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Can people be banned from judging if they give files bad ratings just because they don't like the song?

(im serious)

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Halogen, I wasn't referring to that.

Think about it...your set of songs you're judging...

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I'm thinking qqwref might be tired of seeing -Glorious Morning- by now, considering that he's had my file for EVERY batch I have sent it to. Thought that was kind of funny.

But wow, judge team 2 seems to be on the pretty damn strict side..

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Pehehe, great team to land my two files in.

Sim artist title here I come. :-D

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

No but people should be railed on for bad song choice more bc some things just aint steppable

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Yeah, *some* things aren't steppable. But people generally don't even try to step stuff like that, unless it's as a joke. I'm talking about decent files, on music that some people really enjoy, that are being given one or more bad ratings just because of the song or type of chart (js files for instance - if anyone hasn't noticed, there are like 5 good difficult ones in the entire game). With the current system, one bad rating can literally destroy a file's chances at being accepted... and sometimes that one judge is the type who will just say "not feeling it [?]". Good luck fixing those problems with your chart! Hope you don't get discouraged about the system!

Here's the thing: this is FFR, not some personal pack that's being made for a little Stepmania community. We have 1.7 million users, of which a few thousand will play most songs. I don't care what types of music are submitted because there will be a lot of people who like almost anything. Some people might not like complex noisy songs, or synthesized electronic music, or slow rock songs, or chiptune. But a good file from any of those genres will make quite a few people happy - and I think that's far more important than any one person's opinion.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I agree with w_c and qqwref.

Last batch a certain someone (not me) got [++, +, +, ?] and didn't make the queue because one certain judge gave it a "?" for no apparent reason listed in their batch notes.

It confuses me and kinda pisses me off when one judge gives a file a ++ and another gives it a ? in the same batch.

EDIT: Cool, post 666.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Nomina Nuda Tenemus.
If you're gonna screen based on music don't let shit like that into the game.
Otherwise don't bother screening.
'Nuff said.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Nomina Nuda Tenemus is a great song wtf

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I hear chopping but I don't hear digging.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Or when one judge says a file has good patterns and another says it has bad patterns. But what can you do (except always throw out the worst rating)?

Game, set, and match. :twisted: (For the record, I like NNT.)

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

im just tired of seeing horrible files for noise(terminal 11)

make horrible files for actual songs people

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Honestly NNT I can't play with the sound on or I'll quit out. I can't physically listen to the intro to that song because I find it disturbing and makes me feel sick.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Bong Ra is awesome. . .

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I like NNT. And Terminal 11. >.>
I agree though, the files should be creative and fun...we don't need excessive amounts of dumps in FFR.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Breaking News: Halogen isn't going to finish this batch on the first day

!!!!!

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

same

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I don't have a great feeling about my acceptance chances for this batch T_T Please, though, judges, try to go in the same direction as much as possible with your grades.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

i was planning to finish judging today but once i started i didnt feel like doing it all at once

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I'm going to take my sweet time with this batch. Will still prolly been done by the end of the week, but yeah.


Just remember, this batch is revenge of the otter. Prepare to be butthurt B)

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I'm not going to judge until after super meat boy pack is released if anyone's worried about me

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

game is so much fun. @_@

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I've been trying to address the issue for a while now. It was the reason why I had the idea of resubmissions being re-judged by the same people. But this ultimately ended up being a failure, because few judges actually reviewed those resubmissions. An ideal solution, but keeping track of resubmissions this way was inconvenient*. So now it's reverted back to the system where resubmissions can be reviewed by any judge, whether they've played it before or not. It's a trade-off between handling the batch more easily vs consistent judging of resubmitted files.

To make up for this, I came up with appeals (which apparently isn't recognized as an official idea yet) if one has been rejected multiple times due to contrasting opinions of the judges (as opposed to technical errors).


*I might take a look at the idea again. I don't think the idea was executed well (resubmits weren't brought to the attention of judges very much), but a revision might make this work.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Ok I made a poll for that issue.

- Previous judges should judge the resubmission files again (but only when all judge members are the same with the previous ones.).

Y/N

If majority of judges/step artists here support this, I'll change the system.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I have mixed feelings about that.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I don't think it's necessary imo


oh nuts i get to judge two of my songs lmao. hi wyde

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Shouldn't this be 'replaced with the new one'? Should probably fix this. Just throwing that out there.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

fixed.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

More importantly, I'd like to hear from the people who are complaining about their files being judged with highly variable results and possible contradictions in opinions. qqwref? rushy? ichlie? Etc. It's the only reason why I made such a proposal. Read the previous pages to hear their concerns.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Not an important thing or anything; just wondering why they are not just [<] and [>].

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

'sup

Yeah funny you got landed with that lol. hope u liek

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I'm not sure if I agree that previous judges should judge the resubmission files again. On one hand, it would ensure that any fixes that got pointed out actually get fixed; on the other hand, if one person thinks the song or chart style is total crud, they are not going to improve their opinion much when they see that a few minor problems have been changed. I guess you can put me down for a tentative yes, but I'd still like to see the worst grade thrown out in cases of extreme subjectivemania (+ + + -, ++ + + ?, that kind of stuff).

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Throwing out grades is a bad idea in the fact that a file might be objectively incorrect, but will have passing grades for multiple judges anyway for various reasons (judging fatigue, extreme bias toward song choice when chart is passable but not worthy), etc.

tbh, Arch's ratings were a bit all over the place. Hell, even I thought +. was a bit ridiculous for my chart Cheeseburger last batch -- that file shouldn't have gotten anything higher than a +?, lol

If the song has a poor rating, it should only be considered thrown away if the judge can't give legitimate reasons as to why. Obviously if a judge gives a bad grade, they've most likely done it for a reason and if they can prove it, then their grade shouldn't be thrown out because it's rude to them for judging it.

Take me for example in my last batch, and Altair (which I believe I gave it a [-]). What if it received good marks from all of the other judges? My notes get thrown away for no reason?

It's just a thought; it's not a bad idea, but it comes with a lot of issues behind it.

As for resubmissions: pass them around to different judges, because there might be an inevitable bias towards/against songs.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I think we should all go play o2jam. Just sayin

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

It's possible, but I think it's a lot more likely that one person messes up than that three people mess up. Anyway I don't think the notes should always be thrown out, or the judge booted, just that the lowest rating shouldn't be counted when we determine how well songs did.

This is a good idea - to ask the lowest judge (if that rating is the lowest by a lot) to explain in more detail why they gave that ranking and what could be fixed. Then we could throw out their result only if they can't give a reasonable explanation.

The thing which makes me want to throw out the lowest rating is that the current system can potentially give a judge too much power. If one person gives a file [?] or worse, there is nothing the other judges can do - it's basically getting flat out rejected. The purpose of team judging is to give each file multiple perspectives, but it's important to have a system where a judge can't personally prevent a file from getting ingame.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Divide the judging team into two groups (instead of three), and for each file, omit the highest and the lowest score

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

You pretty much said it for me in this, but

This should be considered too. If the judge cannot give good solid reasons as to why it received a lower rating, then it really shouldn't be considered. Pretty much means that they didn't do their job [in the sense that they should be pointing out mistakes or flaws].

Put me down for a yes like qqwref.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Does it surprise you that someone whose position is that simfiles cannot be objectively evaluated would not have an objective method of judging? It is objective with respect to my charting style, but that's as far as anyone can go. A method is not objective just because it is systematic.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I would have +'d cheeseburger if I was judging it. idg why you hate it. I guess the <3 of exotic swing is lost when you transfer it into ffr though

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

+100 for this.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

increasing judge's load by a lot = no

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I guess I can say it does surprise me a little bit. Truthfully, there's nothing really erroneous about the chart rhythm wise, but the overall structure is a bit off.

It really is lost...you can AAA the entire song just using the 96th swing as 16th runs; kinda sad really.

Backstory: The chart was actually rushed for a tournament that happened on FFR, as was Strikebeam, AND The Crow's Newspaper (although TCN was the first chart I worked on; as a result, it came out the best out of the three). I created the final rounds for every division and put them on the DF engine, and then pulled them off once the tournament was over. I don't hate my chart, it's just not properly structured -- more freeform than anything. But hey, it's cool to see that you liked it :)

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

maybe people should just deal with judgments and fix their files


the judges haven't been selected to spite your files; they know how to make good files and will tell you how to do it.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

So far, that's what the consensus seems to be. The answer is a no, then. Keep making suggestions though.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

are we sending batch notes to the email again or to bmah?

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I've always sent them to bmah ._.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Yea, the judges don't get picked to spite files, they just get picked in some random order as it seems.

Maybe the teams should be consistent? Unless this created a problem in the past that I don't know about.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

keeping people on their toes. what judge you gunna get this batch?! who knos

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

i stepped virt(oh shit) and more ronald jenkees(oh shit) along with nero went to legoland(oh shit)

next batch is going to be a big heavy hitter batch for me(all files unreleased too!!)

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

too bad that the normal batch will be closed some time :(

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Gives me time to finish my files.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

excluding "Sun and Stars". so this means my song didn't make it? o.0


:(

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

The exclusions are in place when a range of files includes a judge's file.

Say you were a judge and you submitted file F, and you have to judge A-I, file F would be excluded from the entire group because you're in that group of judging.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

yeah just by looking at the song title they deemed it unworthy of even being sent to the judges. sorry XD



oh by the way how do I ask for permissions? Are there steps to follow? I want to ask a few artists.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

god created the Sun and Stars file/song

How amusing


Edit: There isn't necessarily specific steps, but there is a thread that is linked to in the Artist Blanket Permission v5 thread that contains some templates you could use. Just be courteous, and make sure your question is clear. If they are signed to labels, you have to get permission from the record label as well (or instead?).

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

How iironiic

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

check here

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

no files have been evaluated yet; that's all you need to know

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

well that's good to know, thanks for clearing that up. Hopefully it makes it in the game, it's a good song ( though idk about the file because I've never seen it).

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

so far ive accepted 0 files. thought you would all like to know this

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

that's because you haven't started silly

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

No i've reviewed half my files.