Zelda BotW
 

Didn't look like there was a thread for this already, so I figured I'd start one.

Let me start by saying I've been a lifelong zelda fan going all the way back to the original NES zelda. Naturally, I picked up BotW as soon as I could on release day (for the Wii U, since that's what I currently have), and could not have been more hyped from all the raving reviews it had been getting.

Brace yourselves: this is going to be a wildly unpopular opinion, but I just cannot get into this game. I HATE that I feel this way, because everyone else is hailing it as one of the greatest games of all time, and I feel like something is wrong with me for missing what the magic is.

Here are some of my major gripes with the game so far. I should note that I'm about 15 or so hours in, and the last major story point I finished was visiting the laboratory area (can't remember the name) with the little girl who upgrades your Sheikah slate.
- Weapons break far too easily. Not only is this annoying, but it makes me hesitant to use cool new equipment. What's the point of finding some sweet ass lightning sword in a shrine if you never want to use it because you know eventually it will break? At the very least I think weapons should last longer, but it also would have been nice if there was a feature for you to maintain / upgrade them when they got weak instead of just losing them altogether.
- Cooking. This whole feature was implemented very poorly in my opinion. First off, the process is extremely tedious. Maybe it's just my playing style, but the pattern for me has usually been go out and do some exploring, gather dozens of monster bits / plants / etc, come across a pot, and them spend an annoying amount of time bouncing between the inventory screen and the cookpot as I cook it all up. The whole process always feels more like a chore than an opportunity for creativity, and the random variations in the dishes I end up creating don't seem all that exciting or even all that useful in practice. For instance, I might cook something that restores my stamina bar and refills 4 hearts, but I'll probably just end up using it to refill my health during a sprawl with some really hard enemy and completely ignore the stamina boost. Another problem with cooking is the fact that there is no way to store recipes for a dish after you've eaten it. This kind of defeats the whole purpose of recipes in the first place. If I make a really awesome dish that I'll want to cook again and then eat it, I'm SOL; hopefully I've remembered the recipe by heart.
- It takes too damn long to get places. I'm constantly coming across huge stretches of land which are extremely tedious to traverse considering you can only sprint for a couple seconds at a time. Climbing is even worse. I found a bandana which claims to boost climbing speed, but I barely seem to notice a difference when wearing it. There was one section in which I did find a horse I could ride, but the controls felt really awkward and I'm not sure horses will always be available (perhaps there is a way later on in the game to summon a horse or something like that, though). Note that I am only referring to exploration of new areas here; I realize you are able to teleport around to shrines / towers once you've visited them.
- The story has got to be the most cookie-cutter, boring, un-inspired re-hash of any Zelda game in the series. I know the story is not the major focal point of Zelda, and it's expected that each entry in the series is going to converge in some way around the fact that Link must defeat Ganon to save Hyrule, but I didn't expect the story to be almost word-for-word right out of the gate "Link, you must go kill calamity Ganon and save Hyrule, you're our only hope!". I would think that a game which is bold enough to do so many other things differently than its predecessors would at least come up with a more dynamic plot.
- What is with all these stupid fetch quests? I've been getting them left and right. "Go out and collect X amount of firewood". "Go and get me X number of grasshoppers". Do people find this sort of thing fun? I just don't get it. It feels like such a chore to me, and I have absolutely zero motivation to try and complete them. Not only are the fetch quests lame, but most of the other ones have been pretty stupid as well. Play tag with the little kid in the village? All I had to do was run up to him and press the talk button. Not very interesting.
- This may only be an issue with the Wii U version of the game (or maybe I'm just dumb!), but I can't seem to get an intuitive grasp on the controls. For instance, I still find myself pausing briefly when trying to remember how to select and throw a bomb.

Those are just my main technical concerns with the game. In addition to all that, something I've come to learn about my personal taste in video gaming after getting BotW is that I don't enjoy massively open world games like this. I get too overwhelmed with all the possibilities and never know what to do. I'm sure there are people who live for this sort of thing up and could go for days climbing, exploring, collecting mushrooms / critters, etc., but sadly I just don't think that's me. Despite this, I really don't want to give up on this game just yet. There's so much content I've yet to experience that I feel like if I keep playing long enough I'll finally "get it". However, I still find myself having to force myself to play the game instead of doing so out of enjoyment or excitement.

I expect I already know the answer to this, but how do the rest of you feel about this game? Is there anything that changes later on in the game that might invalidate some of my concerns?

Re: Zelda BotW
 

I'm gonna have to say I have some gripes with the game as well. It's a fun game, but is it a 10 / 10?

No. It doesn't hold a candle to even OOT or MM, which are my favorites. A link Between Worlds has been able to hold my attention longer.

- The weapon system is crap. I agree.
- Why in the world are there so many small mini dungeons? It's a slightly welcome change to have smaller dungeons, and four more main ones. I can get behind that. But there are so many.
- Blood Moon mechanics can occur during the final fight. That's silly.
- A lot of the map is empty feeling, and I don't like the cues it took from the assassin's creed series. I don't like hunting for stuff, and TBH this game blends a lot of Skyrim and AC, and I can't say I really enjoy those games as much.
- I don't like hand holding but a cooking tutorial would have been impeccably nice to get. - Also, fuck the cooking system. Select five items to hold, then go back into over-world, then press a on fire. Why isn't it press a select what you want and cook? Fucking unintuitive trash.
- Rain can fuck off.

But despite those, I can still sit down play it for an hour and be happy. And getting my ass handed to me, is awkwardly satisfying from this game. It feels like most of the mistakes are my own and that if I hadn't been a shit I'd have been fine.

I think telling a real story in this game isn't that important. My favorite game from last year, Momodora Reverie Under the Moonlight, tells next to none of the story. It's left to interpretation. So I can kinda sit back and enjoy it that way.

Re: Zelda BotW
 

I think people who have played skyrim and enjoyed that will be a little bit less enthralled by BotW. I haven't played it yet but it looks like a bit of a crossover so if it's not done as well as skyrim/oblivion/etc, then of course you won't like it as much. tie that into the standard dungeon crawling, story-heavy zelda games of old and you get a game that has the zelda setting with none of the standard zelda game play. I think it's hyped up because this hasn't been done before in the zelda franchise, and it's a fuckin zelda game, of course it's gonna have hype.

I love sandbox rpgs so I'm sure I'll have no issue getting lost in the game once I get it.

also oot is overrated and mm is shit k bye

Re: Zelda BotW
 

u wat son?

take that back!

Re: Zelda BotW
 

He's right about OoT though.

Re: Zelda BotW
 

game looks gorgeous and I was going to try to emulate for pc based on initial impressions/hype
...but...
gameplay looks tedious and unfulfilling based on hours of various twitch streams
choof's description of skyrim x oot is pretty damning for me (both were unmemorably "mehh")

actually the only reason I keep streams for the game open in the background is because the scoring/sfx for the game are so fucking amazing they actually add atmosphere to whatever else I'm doing on the pc

I just quickly looked up the first hit for a review and this pretty much tells me everything I need to know about the game



my guess is the critics
- mistake meshing two gameplay paradigms for genuine innovation
- over-emphasize atmposhere
- treat creativity as universally positive while ignoring any negative consequences
- downplay the effect of gameplay negatives

while users
- actually play the game

so your opinion is not wildly unpopular (barring abuse of the user rating system I guess) and from what I've seen I would peg it as a 7.5/8 at best

tbh there's way too much fanboyism around established franchises in general and nintendo seems to get the worst of it (or perhaps, are the best at playing to the needs/wants of their fanbase?)

edit: wow I just realized the last time I looked at a review for a game was in like... 1996...

Re: Zelda BotW
 

Skyrim bored the shit out of me and I forced myself to plug like 10 hours into the thing just to see if it'd ever get better (it didn't).

Really hoping BOTW takes more cues from OoT than it does from Skyrim.

Re: Zelda BotW
 

aww i thought you were talking about brotherhood of the underworld/BotU

http://botu.northcastle.co.uk/

Re: Zelda BotW
 

Having finally gotten a chance to play it myself, the controls are awkward as FUCK on the Wii U Game Pad (the one with the screen) which is unfortunately all I have to play it with. Having the secondary control stick above the buttons is so fucking weird.

You're sort of forced to claw grip with your right hand to both look around and hit the buttons to do things. Including running or swinging your weapon, which are usually important to be able to do without issue in these kinds of games. The auto-lock feature doesn't fix this for like half the enemies because they're tall as hell or fly and it drags your camera down onto the ground weirdly.

The upgrading/cooking system is cool and stuff but nothing revolutionary after years of Minecraft crafting clone games have done the same thing but better.
The atmosphere and scoring are, as noted, 10/10. Just exploring is so gratifying.
The overall story is as not-interesting as you'd expect from a Zelda game. Ganon did a bad thing. Now you need to go kill him until he dies! Wow!
The sidequest plots are surprisingly mature and interesting, at least the few I have done.
The combat is surprisingly enjoyable for me even despite the camera, but it's not anything novel by any means. Fights play a lot like any other 3d Zelda game.
The puzzles are cool but also usually really cheese-able in dumb ways, which is either a pro or a con depending on how you feel about that.

Overall my impression after 2 divine beasts, a bunch of shrines, and a few sidequests is 8.5/10. Definitely fun and I'm well aware there's 100+ hours of content left in the game for me so it's definitely expansive. Lots recommending it and I don't yet feel like I've wasted my time.



Actually, let me revise that to 8/10. Zelda's voice actor takes a full half point off by herself. Calamity Ganon has nothing on the calamity that is her accent.

Re: Zelda BotW
 

Also the Divine Beasts have some of the most clever and enjoyable level design I've seen in a long time. The feeling of discovery reminds me a lot of Portal, in a weird way. (probably not a comparison most people would make, but I get the same fun feeling from the designs)
Again, some parts are super cheese-able but even clearly not intended cheese strats are usually interesting in the context of the dungeon.
Divine Beasts have been the highlight for me, for sure. A shame they only comprise like, 2-3 hours max out of such a huge game.

Re: Zelda BotW
 

Bottom line: if you can't enjoy just aimlessly walking around in a beautiful world and doing random stuff, don't get this game. Seriously the majority of my 8/10 rating is because I enjoy getting lost in that kind of setting. It's not for everyone.
If you need more structure to your games in terms of plot or mechanics-driven gameplay (a totally valid requirement, of course) then you will not find it here.

It feels, for me, much MUCH more heavy on the open-world influences than the Zelda influences. Don't expect OoT in any way other than the feel of the combat and the scarce few minutes you will spend in the Divine Beast dungeons.

Re: Zelda BotW
 

yet lets take the engine of one of the most brilliant games of it's time and gate content behind arbitrary time walls

Re: Zelda BotW
 

First Cycle is usually the fastest of the ones (due to the clock going 2.5x faster than normal speed, forget the specific value), I agree, it could be a bit of doozy for players who don't want to be rushed. However, there's multiple ways to redo if you mess up the first cycle. Scarecrows and or going to see Granny at the Stock Pot INN to advance time so you don't have to wait.

Once completed, and up the point where you need the go, the game gives you 5 IN REAL TIME MINUTES to figure out what you're suppose to do. Once that's done, the game gives back your Ocarina in which case you have immediate access to slowing the time down so you can have up to 2 hrs 42 min per cycle.

Time should never be a factor at that point then. Only, and only if you really are stumped would you feel the need to restart a cycle.

(Like... Charu, that's his... like opinion man...)

NO, MM IS SO GOOD, MMMMMMMMMMMMM

Re: Zelda BotW
 

Unless you need to cook for like resistances or buffs or some shit, you should just get durians. Cook them one by one and they give you full recovery +4 extra hearts. They're right next to the Faron tower in the southeast. Solved all of my cooking problems.

Re: Zelda BotW
 

It was interesting to read your take on the game...I finished the game awhile ago after sinking about 50ish hours into it and getting ~80 shrines, so I finally feel like I can comment properly on it.

Massive life long Zelda fan, and I bought the Switch version, btw.

And while I would give the game a 9 or 9.5 out of 10, I have a lot of the same complaints that you do lol. I guess they just didn't bother me nearly as much as they're bothering you.

First things first, I definitely agree on weapons, I think it was a horrible decision. Ostensibly the logic behind this system is to go hand in hand with the fresh combat system that requires people to take novel approaches to different enemies rather than just hack and slash everything. Supposedly they want you to constantly be using different assortments of weapons to add to the combat diversity, which in and of itself isn't a bad idea. However, the weapons do break far far too quickly, and not having a blacksmith of sorts that allowed weapon upgrades I think was a full retard decision.

The ultimate consequence of their design was to cause me to not want to fight at all and or never use my best weapons (and what is the point of a good weapon if you don't want to use it?). I started looking for the lost woods and the master sword very early on, because I wanted a weapon I could keep using. Jesus christ even their design choice with the master sword pissed me off (yeah it breaks against Ganon too, what a joke!).

So I spent a large portion of the game stealthing. Mind you, steath tactics in the game are extremely viable and I had a lot of fun doing this, but not being able to just tear enemies up without busting my awesome sword was a huge negative for me.


On cooking, yeah, I think it wasn't the best design. Especially once you realize how to cook the best healing items, you can become essentially invincible if you're bored enough to keep cooking the ingredients. The worst part is the menu with respect to cooking, something so essential to the game is made extremely cumbersome. Very annoying.


The world itself though? Loved it. Fantastic world. Reminded me of the original zelda except on a modern scale, the way you can go essentially anywhere and create your own adventure. There is also a surprising amount to do in the world.

Though I think the dungeons are a huge weakpoint. The first one or two dungeons you play are very good, since overall the dungeons are well designed. The problem is they're all a carbon copy of one another in terms of aesthetics and approach. More dungeons and more dungeon variation are IMO necessary for the next entry in the series. Compared to Skyward sword in terms of dungeons, BotW massively disappoints. The shrines are fun but they really don't compensate for the lack of dungeon action you get in this game.

In terms of the story, I enjoyed the bare bones approach because it reminded me a lot of the original Zelda. I thought the ending was extremely disappointing though (won't say much else for spoilers sake).


So I've said a lot of negative things, but I don't feel like I need to talk about the good things since all of the other reviews do it already. I would spend hours at a time playing this game and had a blast, especially after getting over some of the negatives and hurdles early on. I had a really immersive experience and enjoyed myself quite thoroughly. I thought they definitely took the series in the right direction in many ways, and while I would change some things...I had so much fun, and I'm very excited to see where this takes the series.

Re: Zelda BotW
 

So I got the Switch + game today and finally had a chance to play it.

Thoughts on the Switch:

-The little handheld controls by themselves suck. My hands hurt after only using them for a few minutes. I don't know if this is because of my past wrist strain or just having generally larger hands, but these things were awkward. There is a little controller mold thing you can slide the controllers into so you can basically Megazord your way to a functional controller, but I think at some point I'm just going to get the Pro controller or whatever it's called. I feel like these little handhelds are just full of buttons everywhere, and I don't really understand how you're supposed to slide them in and out without hitting other buttons given such limited surface area for grabbing. You're supposed to press these little nub-buttons in the back as you're doing this, but I can barely feel them click in, and at this point my hands are already in an awkward position and I have a tough time grabbing the rest of the controller to actually do the sliding. Maybe I just suck. But whatever, all this tells me is that I need to keep the damn things on the Switch and spring for a better controller.

-There are two wrist-strap things you can connect to the controllers as well. I couldn't get them off. Figuring I was an idiot, I Googled online instructions and followed them exactly... and the attachments still didn't come off. Turns out I had attached them backwards or in reverse or something, and it's apparently a common issue. I didn't even see the plus and minus symbols. You can very easily attach these things the wrong way and they don't give much more resistance than when you attach them correctly. The only way to get them off at that point is to tear them away with an uncomfortable amount of force and hope you don't break anything.

-Setup was easy, UI was pretty, all good there.

Thoughts on BOTW:

Haven't put much time into it yet, but man do I feel like a grumpy old guy or something.

-I don't like that there are audible voices. This really, really, really bothers me for some reason. I loved OoT because everyone was silent (outside of occasional laughs, grunts, shrieks, yells, etc) and there was a major focus on things like ambience and music as a result. So far the only voice I've heard is from whoever is guiding you out of that initial cave or whatever, but I am hoping that's the end of that.

-The weapon system is balls. With any luck, it'll get easier with time. Constantly needing to re-equip weapons because they break really interrupts the flow of combat.

-However I like that there's a huge-ass world, as it's certainly going to be chock-full of secrets. Secret-finding is one of my favorite things to do in games, because it forces me to really explore a game for all it has to offer.

That's all I'm really willing to say at the moment because I haven't played much to get a fully fleshed-out opinion, but so far there have been a number of minuses right out of the gate. Hopefully these things either become easier to handle or less pronounced as I play more.

Re: Zelda BotW
 

on BoTW I have a few things to say. I've beaten the game, gotten full stamina bar and maybe like 20ish hearts. What I have to say may be spoilers so I'm going to put it in spoilers.

Cooking- This is hit or miss with a lot of people I see, to me I like it. Hunting ingredients (or rather just picking up tons of stuff everywhere) gives you something to do on your way to wherever you go, and it feels nice to find radishes/durians, and whatever else is super strong for cooking. (this is reoccuring to me for finding weapons) It's not something that's so out of the way that I feel it's interrupting my experience exploring the map, or doing other stuff. As for the recipee's, after I caught on to how cooking worked it made perfect sense, but at first it was kind of weird just fiddling around with throwing whatever 5 items into a pot. The food I made early on wasn't that helpful since I had 3 hearts for a pretty damn near 10-20 hours. (This is because I was unlocking towers first before doing shrines or dungeons) Which means I died a lot and didn't have the chance to really use any cooked food. However the first dungeon I went to where I was faced with a Lynel for the first time, I eventually ate food that gave me +18 hearts, and +3 defense and he was super push over, and at that moment I learned how damned good that +3 defense buff is. The bonuses they give you are massive and I love it! It lets you have a somewhat difficulty control on the game. Overall it's best to learn what makes you the strongest buff food and how to make it last longest then just keep whatever is strongest (same with weapons)

Exploring/shrines- This is what the game is most about. From the moment I started out on the great plateau I was having fun exploring all sorts of stuff. They packed this game with so much beauty you'd be hard pressed to ever find a bad sight. Learning the hot/cold temperature thing was a thing and how to get by it was an interesting experience, I kind of like the fact they just throw you in the game and say goodluck, you're on your own. It places a nice amount of trust in the player and I felt really good everytime I learned something new on my own. After the Great Plateau there was only ever like 1 waypoint to find Impa and then you're on your own to do your own adventure. In addition to the game looking magnificent, finding shrines is always rewarding, you never know what is going to be in their chests, and there's always a reward of upgrading your hearts/stamina. Some of the shrines too are very challenging like the survival island shrine, making not just finding them rewarding for your exploration, but also rewarding for your skill if you make it through. Of course there's also the fact some of them can be tricky to figure out how to get to or to complete in general. Also shrines being waypoints is a very big deal/reward.

Dungeons- I have a big issue with the dungeons here. The first one I went to (zora) was incredible, and I felt badass shooting arrows at the targets, and riding on my allies back, blowing up ice blocks, swimming up waterfalls, it felt like a mission, and it was an incredible memorable experience for me. Everything from getting to zoras domain, (btw zoras domain looks absolutely stunning!) to fighting the Lynel (I actually killed him!) to getting into the dungeon was awesome! And then figuring out how the dungeon worked, and unlocking the 5ish pedestal things was a challenging first time experience. I was very happy with it. But then the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th dungeons all followed a very similar formula. Get to the area, do a small quest to get into the dungeon, shoot 4 targets, and then every dungeon had the same mechanics and aesthetics. After the first 1 also I felt like I was just doing giga-shrines instead of a dungeon. They were small, and very pushover since I wasn't doing anything different from what I had done before. It really gave the dungeons kind of a boring feel to them. But I can see how any first dungeon would be cool as your first dungeon. They do not stand together to create a unique experience which is unfortunate. The rewards at the end of each dungeon however are so powerful that completing them is still nice in the end, but damn it really sucks that they're not as much fun after the 1st one.

Weapons- I know a lot of people have a great issue with how weapons are handled in this game, but I actually like that they break frequently. It forces you to think more strategically about what you want to use at what time. Should you be using that +50 Attack Edge of Duality to kill 1 hp keese? Nah just switch to whatever is kind of weaker and use the strong weapon on something like a Hinox, or Lynel. Once your strong weapon breaks you're still set to kill pretty much any other enemy with ~20 attack power weapons. Finding, or fighting for strong weapons will mean that your +50 weapons will always be a rewarding treat to collect. Imagine getting a weapon early on and having it never break. You're stuck with something that you take for granted for the next 200 hours you're playing, and never even considered the fact that it's rare/consumable. Additionally if weapons just lasted twice as long as they do now, you will still run into the whole weapons breaking situation, and you'd still be in the same boat upset that they don't last long enough. If you have the option to repair your weapons you will run into a whole different set of issues. If you were able to repair weapons, your inventory would be cluttered with very strong weapons on the verge of breaking, and you'd be upset that you have to run back to a blacksmith after every fight to repair your stuff.
Another thing, if you were to collect a very strong weapon that lasted a very long time, it wouldn't force you to not use other weapons, but you'd be more likely to just use whatever is strongest instead of experimenting with the cool things you can do with like a korok leaf, or how good a spear or 1 handed sword can be in combat. (because 2handed swords tend to be the highest attack rating) And then it would also suck because you can just go get an OP weapon and make the game that much easier to just murder stuff.
The game actually gives you the option to buy Ancient weapons from a robot if you want, they'll eventually break but you can technically just think of him as a blacksmith and get a same copy of that weapon back, do that for a while and you'll find that you're actually having more fun collecting weapons out in the world i'm sure. Different strokes for different folks, but my main point here is their decision to have weapons work their current way is actually very good!

Story-


Horses/transportation- Along with the whole game, figuring out how to get horses was rewarding, especially in that it's an option and it's up to you to figure out that you can even do it in the first place. It helps out with traveling places early on especially if that's when you get your first horse.
Overall transportation in this game is so fast that once you have towers/shrines unlocked no place is ever going to be too far away, especially in combination with a haste+3 potion/food. Shines are seriously huge in this game, their rewards for hearts/stamina/waypoints/random items make them a very big deal, and something to work for. Paragliding from highpoints is also a pretty good option for traveling, and it makes climbing stuff feel a lot more rewarding.

Quests- I haven't done very many other than the main quests, I'm not going to give my opinion on this until later.

Rain- Wait for the rain to go away is a stupid mechanic/waste of time. Lightning too, except in this case you have the option to do a quest that makes it so you can be struck by lightning and not die. Rain is the worst thing mechanically in this game not letting you climb stuff.

Controls- Can be awkward at first but I find having my right index on the right joystick for camera control (pretty much at all time) is the only weird thing I had to do for this game. Everything else is smooth and feels good to use.

Game Mechanics- It's fun to use the 1 and 2 handed weapons, and spears. Parrying and perfect dodging attacks is so hard to do that it feels super nice when you finally get the timing for it down. Game mechanics work similar to OoT/MM with targeting, but the enemies can easily kick your ass in this game, so there's a fair bit of strategy involved in tackling a lot of situations. One last thing is the slowtime for shooting arrows in the air is one of my favorite mechanics, I actually make a great deal of use of this in fighting lots of enemies. There's a lot of ways to get into the air too making this a solid mechanic.

Overall game- 7.5/10
Game mechanics, exploration, cooking, shrines, horses, weapons, rewards, and controls for this game make this game what is fun for me. I've had a lot of fun on the adventure and plan to play this game for many more hours to come! 10/10
Story, champions/zelda, dungeon repetition, and ganon 2nd phase are negative points for me, and I actually feel the game would be better without them. 1/10

edit: don't know where to throw this, but i really don't like the way they had zelda's voice done. Sounds goddy, and entitled and completely does not match her character.

Re: Zelda BotW
 

Hey man, uh...
Might want to hit mute for the memory cutscenes.

It's bad.

Re: Zelda BotW
 

The weapons breaking does get way better later in the game as you get more weapon slots and more durable weapons. It's definitely at its worst right at the start, which is unfortunate.

However I will note, playstyle has a lot to do with weapons. If you are swinging wildly, your shit will break.
Being more careful with openings in attacks, going for high-damage combos instead of a million chip damage hits against their shields, and most importantly using stealth strikes which seemingly do not take off any durability is really important.

Re: Zelda BotW
 

I felt like a kid again exploring so definitely good game