Rap is technically music
 

sunfan told me to make this thread

while it fits the technical definition of music I don't really consider it music there's probably not enough pitch for me to call it music

I'll readily admit that I haven't heard a lot of rap (because it's not really the kind of music I listen to) so I could just be listening to bad rap

sunfan seemed to think I would be crucified for posting this here, interested in yalls takes

Re: Rap is technically music
 

i'd recommend jon lajoie if you want to get into good rap

Re: Rap is technically music
 

you know who else was crucified? jesus

you know who actually predicted dbp was a wolf in the champs game? also jesus

Re: Rap is technically music
 

if shapiro says it's not music, im inclined to believe the man who DESTROYS logic-less leftists with FACTS and KNOWLEDGE

Re: Rap is technically music
 

people are just meat instruments

Re: Rap is technically music
 

its not "technically" music
it IS music

Re: Rap is technically music
 

So mumble rap is music? HA
hahaha

Re: Rap is technically music
 

One way I think you might be able to reframe how you see rap is to looking at the musical backing behind the actual rapping, especially songs that use samples

Here is a song that samples one of my favourite bands, Beach House


Here's the original song


See how Kendrick and his producers manipulated the original song to create something of their own that sounds completely different? While still paying homage to the original and doing it justice.

Not to even mention Kendrick's lyrics, this is a really old track of his but the lyrics to this song kinda changed how I saw relationships back in the day (it's about a guy cheating on his gf just because, through no fault of hers)

Re: Rap is technically music
 

this is bait

Re: Rap is technically music
 

its something he believes
and yes, he did post it because I egged him to do it
its not bait

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Yeah, rap is not technically music. Rap is music by basically any reasonable standards that actual musicians would apply.

People who think rap isn't music are just being arbitrarily normative and probably prejudiced.

The music in rap has plenty of pitch pretty much all the time. Are you referring to pitch in lyrics? If that's the case, how is music with no lyrics music, but music that would be music with no lyrics, suddenly become not music because a rapper is maintaining a steady pitch in the lyrics? Also, does that mean the band 'Cake' is also not music? He's super monotonous in most of his songs.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

>Critical Thinking

Re: Rap is technically music
 

i like these



but that's pretty much it in the whole rap/hiphop genre

Re: Rap is technically music
 

How about something like

Re: Rap is technically music
 

i wouldnt consider that Malaa song rap lol, the genre is called Shallow House (also i love Malaa, i charted notorious actually a while back)

how about someone like nujabes tho thats good rap artist/producer

Re: Rap is technically music
 

does linkin park rapping over their songs count as rap

Re: Rap is technically music
 

"Rap Rock" is a genre, of which they were a prime performer, so yes it's rap.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Rap is not music, its poetry.
"While in rap “songs” the focus is almost solely on the lyrics, and the instrumental part(usually referred to as “beat”) is of little importance. That's why rap isn't really music. Rap is poetry, often paired with a bit of music in the background. “Rap RARELY has any singing"

Re: Rap is technically music
 

I wish I could fine you for this post

Re: Rap is technically music
 

So any band whose lyrics are poetic aren't doing music because the lyrics are poetry?

How about a song that is literally an existing poem set to music:


How about a song that has very poetic lyrics, and the singer is also a poet?


How about a song that is basically about nonsense, is extremely monotonous but isn't rap

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Jazz Rap. It's majority Japanese, and the instrumentals are a banger.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

did you miss my post

Re: Rap is technically music
 

nah

Re: Rap is technically music
 

I think a lot of the argument trying to be made has to do with what people would define something as an 'art-form' over 'music'.

Myself? I don't really consider white noise, or noise music, as music. More-so experimental, or prose. But, it's music. Some venetian snare drumcore can get pretty dull in terms of pitch over 6 minutes, but it's music. Extratone can have little to no rhythm other than 1200bpm bleep bloops, and could in some cases be considered harsh noise, but it's still a genre of music.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

damn for people who play a rhythm game some people on FFR have really bad takes on music

Re: Rap is technically music
 

I didn't read anything really. Just posted hahaha

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Re: Rap is technically music
 

finding fun through new music pays to keep an open mind

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Everything by NF is crazy good.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Can confirm, I too have listened to NF and love his stuff

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Wow I missed this thread.

The way I see "music" is as follows: Does it have a melody? Does it have rhythm? The answer to that question is 100% of the time YES. Music always has both of these components.

Now let's ask us the following: Does RAP MUSIC have melody and rhythm? The answer to that question is absolutely yes. Even underground rappers have a melody and rhythm to go off of. Brainsick 1.0 by Twisted Insane, Kaancepts by KAAN are the two best examples I can provide of UNDERGROUND shit. But you can hear a melody and a rhythm to both beats. Therefore I would consider Rap to be music.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Because you fucks are too lazy to look anything up, here you go!

Re: Rap is technically music
 

I disagree, i heard ZERO music in these. They are poems
Rap nowadays is literally just crappy mumble rap that you cant even understand but people call it "music" because it has a beat. Not true at all.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Re: Rap is technically music
 

To anybody trying to make their statement that rap isn't music seem less offensive by saying "because it's poetry instead" do you actually LIKE poetry? Because if you don't like poetry at least as much as you like music, you're still relegating rap to a status of "lesser" which is some pretty dangerous ground to be treading.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Is this poetry to you...?? to me it sounds like a fun party song about smoking weed with very little poetic value aka music

Re: Rap is technically music
 

I know shadowgod knows this one....

so poetic

Tech n9ne is an awesome rapper with some dope rhymes and poetic lyrics but are you really gonna tell me that the song Caribou Lou is primarily poetry and not a party SONG?

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Learn what the word music means

Re: Rap is technically music
 

this song actually has singing, unlike alot of rap.

I dont mind rap, if its not mumble rap and actually has good lyrics.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

I want to see a US map where its like
"We asked 1,000 white people in every state whether or not rap is music and here's the % responses
blue = yes
red = no"

Re: Rap is technically music
 

there are a lot of musical preference heatmaps but I can't find any for arbitrary definitions of art

Re: Rap is technically music
 

I'm sorry my opinion offends you

Re: Rap is technically music
 

I mean as long as it has an intentional beat it pretty much qualifies as music.

Like how a single paint stroke on a canvas is art.

Even if it's cheap and honestly, lazy imho. Still art though.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

This poll -was- done, as part of the "Cards Against Humanity Saves America" project, they used a professional polling service to conduct a series of polls with a wide cross-section of respondents on a wide range of subjects. They did a whole section on Rap as music.

People who don’t think rap is music are more likely to be older, rural, uneducated, conservative, approve of Trump, oppose welfare, and think black people benefit from welfare more than white people.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

yup
that's what I was expecting to see
that's really cool that that was done

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Mac Dre had the best beats/lyrics imo

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Well, this went from quirk in viewpoint to political real fast.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

I was quoting the results of a formal scientific poll so...?

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Hey we sure you weren't already leaning into politics back on like page 1 though?

I mean not that I needed a magic 8 ball to tell you this was how it was going to end. I have legit never seen this debate go any other way.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

im black

edit: here to give my formal endorsement of ffa as a cool dude

Re: Rap is technically music
 

music
/ˈmjuːzɪk/
noun
1.
vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.

Rap fills all of these criteria, so yes it's music.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

yeah, technically

Re: Rap is technically music
 

good job making a thread so fucking stupid it made me make an alt account just so I could post

the fact that you use "pitch" as a means to disregard rap is extra hilarious given that you start off by saying "technical definition of music" when it's paaaaaainfully clear that you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. like devonin (???) already posted, the idea that rap isn't music is pretty exclusively held by boomers or racists. I would also go further and say that most people who consider rap to not be music probably have an incredibly skewed and incredibly narrow expectation of what music is. I doubt your average boomer knows who elaine radigue is, or stockhausen.

so I'm hoping here that you're just an ignorant idiot open to be educated on what music is, and not some idiot who's parroting conservative talking points on a subject that you clearly don't know anything about, ala ben shapiro (who effectively holds the same argument you do about rap but doesn't even consider it to fit the "technical definition of music..." whatever the fuck that is)

youtube.com/watch?v=_3utH8Nm_D4

if you have the time, I strongly recommend watching this video. not only does it debunk your boomer idea of what music is, it turns the argument that music needs pitch into a steelman and THEN debunks your boomer idea of what music is.

when you say "not enough" pitch, what do you mean by "not enough?" can you link a piece of music that's on the line of not enough and just enough pitch? would you consider ambient music or drone music to not have enough pitch? what about a drum solo, where there's obviously little to no pitch at all? is that not musical, since it doesn't have enough pitch? even some of the music used in ffr has very little pitch. venetian snares, hello? fuckin atomhead? what do you even mean by pitch? melody? melody can be found in spades in rap, especially in recent years since a lot of modern rappers also sing on their tracks. harmony? harmony can be easily found in the synthesizers or samples used in beats.

and if we're talking about "technical definitions," there are loooooads of styles of music sitting near the thresholds of music that you have to write off. musique concrete? electroacoustic improv? drone? and getting out of the realm of electronic music, how about free jazz? grindcore? all of these push the envelope of what it means to be music way further than your average rapper could ever dream about.

in short, you know very little, if anything, about what makes music music, and are using that to justify writing off one of the most culturally relevant styles of music of the past 40 years.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

you should watch the video I posted too

Re: Rap is technically music
 

you won't get a response from me btw since once I log out of this account I won't be able to ever log back in but if you're going to read all that, watch the video, and still not change your mind then you're a lost cause any way

Re: Rap is technically music
 

I thought the only real music was Mongolian throat singing.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

yeee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brwdWi-GszE

Re: Rap is technically music
 

in uni I took a computer graphics class and my final project was a music visualizer so I used tibetan throat singing as the sample audio because I was friends with the marker (tfw computer science literally 5 people by 3rd year), and he was into it

Re: Rap is technically music
 

dont worry choobler hes a dumb as am i but still at least im a dumb whos open to new things

Re: Rap is technically music
 

I'm sorry choobler i love u sir but I refuse to watch a video that mentions ben shapiro, the idea of someone having to refute his opinion is just too much for me, like it should just be assumed that ben shapiro is a fucking moron, it shouldnt be something that needs arguing to show

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Oh thank God.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Rap music is music. However, It's not in the traditional sense of how we understand music. The vocals are filled with slangs that gangs used since the 70s and a lot of the instrumentations are replaced with "Street Sounds" instead of traditional instruments. Music is defined as any combination of sounds that is pleasing to the ear, so while one person may find it as "noise" another person can find it pleasing to the ear and so call "vibe" with it as how I think the kids would say it these days.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

You have a...fundamentally unsound understanding of what Rap is, in a way that is legitimately concerning to me.

Rap is "gang slang" and "street sounds"...I just...I can't. Do you actually know any black people at all? Completely serious question.

All i wanna do is
*gunshot*
*gunshot*
*gunshot*
*gunshot*
*click*
*cash register noise*
explain to you how absolutely ridiculous the thing you just said was.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

gonna redirect you to the post that has the nf song in it

and then try to tell me it matches this

Re: Rap is technically music
 

yeah also my post that has the beach house sample

is dream pop band beach house considered "street sounds" now lmao

Re: Rap is technically music
 

what did i just read lmfao

oh you forgot the air horns, police sirens, and ad libs btw. just tryna help

-ffr's token black person

Re: Rap is technically music
 

The question is whether or not this is the best thread of 2019 or the best thread of 2020

Re: Rap is technically music
 

who the figgity fuck is NF

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Please don't

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Er...no I didn't forget anything from that direct quote from existing song lyrics.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

lol the one thing I think is true about rap is that its alot easier to find songs that are extremely awful, compared to other genres

Re: Rap is technically music
 

If your definition of good music is "Good lyrics to sit around and listen to and think about" maybe, but not all music is FOR that.

Re: Rap is technically music
 

See what gets me is, huge swats of Rap is specifically targeted to Black Culture but when someone not that demographic doesn't understand the appeal it's becausethey don't know black people apparently.

Maybe it's just that people don't get what is specifically not made for them instead?

Although, the fact that mainstream rap makes this claim while traditionally having problematic issues with womanizing, gang violence and toxic tribe mentality probably doesn't help their case? Like if I was black I would probably be pissed that the genre made for my culture casually drops lines about picking up hoes and killing fuckers I don't agree with as the norm.


This doesn't represent the entirety of the genre (because of course not, I'm not stupid to think any musical genre is completely one note) but damn if it feels like that's what a good majority of it is and it's off putting to anyone who doesn't want to internalize that kind of content. No amount of positive examples you can link me could outnumber me giving you sever problematic ones that probably got more airtime (although if you want to be petty and play that out, it's gonna have to be later in the week)

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Yike

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Like I'm not even going to bother picking it apart that post was so bad

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Re: Rap is technically music
 

I didn't ask whether he knew any black people because he didn't get the appeal of rap, I asked whether he knew any black people because he said rap music was "70s gang slang and street sounds"

Re: Rap is technically music
 

i want to hear a hip hop instrumental made out of street sounds

Re: Rap is technically music
 

Not hip-hop but apparently this is how all rap is made according to krispy, but imagine calling this "not music"