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Makilaz 05-8-2020 05:48 AM

TWG 194 - Postgame
 
TOWN VICTORY

Phases will revolve around 7pm Server Time
48 Hour Days, 24 Hour Nights
5 Post Minimum. I will replace any player that does not meet this requirement by any EOD, assuming that there was not an extremely early insta. If I cannot find a replacement immediately, that player will be modkilled.

I will accept Role Actions through all mediums where I can be reached. Discord messages, FFR private messages, physical mail delivered to my address, all of these are acceptable role action submission methods. All role action submissions should clearly and explicitly state what the intended target(s) of the role action(s) are.

Cardflipping: On, full role flips
Phantoms: Off
KitB: On
OOTC: Off, excepting Wolfchat and Masonchat
Nighttalk: Off, excepting Wolfchat and Masonchat
Insta: On

Changes from Vanilla C9++ are listed beneath this spoiler


The randomization is based upon the following list:

1-50 = T (Townie)
51-60 = C (Cop)
61-70 = A (Angel)
71-80 = V (Vigilante)
81-90 = M (Mason)
91-100 = B (Blocker)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The role distribution has been changed to:

TTTTTTT = 1-Shot Roleblocker + Godfather, Serial Killer (Conditional Extra Ability)

TTTTTT = 1-Shot Role Cop + Godfather

TTTTT = 1-Shot Role Cop + Godfather, Serial Killer (Conditional Extra Ability)

TTTT = 1-Shot Role Cop + Roleblocker + Godfather

TTT = Role Cop + Roleblocker + Godfather, Serial Killer (Conditional Extra Ability)

TT = Role Cop + Roleblocker + Godfather

T = Role Cop + Roleblocker + Godfather Serial Killer (Conditional Extra Ability)

0 Ts = 2 Role Cops + Roleblocker


C = 1-Shot Cop

CC = Cop

CCC = Cop, 1-Shot Cop

CCCC = 2 Cops

CCCCC = 2 Cops, 1-Shot Cop

CCCCCC = 3 Cops

A = Angel

AA = Angel + 1-Shot Angel

AAA = 2 Angels

AAAA = 2 Angels + 1-Shot Angel

AAAAA = 3 Angels

V = 1-Shot Vigilante

VV = Vigilante

VVV = Vigilante, 1-Shot Vigilante

VVVV = 2 Vigilantes

VVVVV = 2 Vigilantes, 1-Shot Vigilante

M = Innocent Child

MM = 2 Masons

MMM = 2 Masons + Innocent Child

MMMM = 3 Masons

MMMMM = 2 Masons + 2 Masons (i.e. two separate pairings)

B = Roleblocker

BB = Roleblocker + 1-Shot Roleblocker

BBB = 2 Roleblockers

BBBB = 2 Roleblockers + 1-Shot Roleblocker

Should more letters be rolled than a setup is meant to contain, they will be converted into T's.


Wolves and masons, if present, may communicate with one another in their private locations whenever they so choose.

A Serial Killer, if present, will always be both Investigation Immune and have a 1-shot Bulletproof Vest.

All mafia roles will be able to both perform any of their role actions AND also make the nightkill.

The Doctor has been completely replaced with an Angel. The Angel targets a player each night, and then on the following night, that player is protected from one nightkill, refer to the example below.

Sunfan is an Angel. He targets star-crossed on Night One. star-crossed is targeted by a kill on Night One, and because Sunfan's Angel save is not yet in effect, star-crossed dies.

Sunfan is an Angel. He targets star-crossed on Night One. star-crossed is targeted by a kill on Night Two, and because Sunfan's Angel save is in effect, star-crossed does not die.

Sunfan's save would go through even if Sunfan died between using his ability on Night One and star-crossed being targeted by a killing action on Night Two.

Beneath the OP in the game thread will be this image:


This image can be posted only by an Innocent Child when they choose to reveal that they are the Innocent Child. Anyone else posting this image will be modkilled, likely with further punishment.



Beneath the following spoiler are important mechanics resolutions:

Should the final two roles alive be a Serial Killer and any other role, the Serial Killer wins. In the situation where the final three roles alive are Serial Killer, Wolf and any town role, the game proceeds as normal.

If any role does not submit any action during a night phase, I will interpret this as intent not to use the action. No action will ever be randomized by the host.

The Serial Killer will be informed immediately if their vest has been shot at.

The 1-shot Bulletproof Vest does not fail to work if the Serial Killer is targeted by a roleblocker.

The only time that a player will be told that they are roleblocked is if they are expecting a result. This refers only to Cops, 1-shot Cops, Role Cops and 1-shot Role Cops.

Angels and Roleblockers (of both alignments) may never target the same player two nights in a row.

The factional wolfkill is performed by the mafia sending a specific member to make the nightkill.

Wolves will be told the role(s) of their partner(s) upon entrance to wolfchat.

In order for a Town Roleblocker to Roleblock the wolfkill, the Town Roleblocker must target the Wolf that is making the kill.

If a 1-shot action is roleblocked, that action is not refunded.

A Cop will receive their results in the following manner:
Cop checks any town role, the Serial Killer, or the Godfather: Green
Cop checks any mafia role other than Godfather: Red
Cop is Roleblocked while attempting to perform a check: No Result

A Mafia Role Cop performing their action will grant the entire Mafia team the exact Role PM of the targeted player upon the start of the following day phase. This will be sent through FFR PM to all living Mafia members.

The nightkills are not differentiated, meaning that if the mafia kills Sunfan, the Serial Killer kills Fiction and the vigilante kills Daikyi, the Start of Day post is written like:

Sunfan has died. He was...
[insert role here]

Fiction has died. He was...
[insert role here]

Daikyi has died. He was...
[insert role here]

There is not meant to be any differentiation between the different kinds of killing actions.

No role may ever target themselves. Mafia roles, including the factional nightkill, can target other mafia.

Roleblocking a mason or a wolf does not prevent the mason or the wolf from communicating during the night phase. Roleblocking a Godfather or a Serial Killer does not make them appear to be seered as Red during the night phase. Roleblocking an Innocent Child does not prevent them from revealing their Innocence during the following day phase.

The following is an incredibly improbable series of resolution events should multiple roleblocking roles target one another:
What happens when Roleblocker A targets Roleblocker B who targets Player C, assuming Player C attempts to use a night action?
Player B is Roleblocked, all other actions take place.
What happens when Roleblocker A targets Roleblocker B who targets Roleblocker C who targets Player D, assuming Player D attempts to use a night action?
Both Roleblocker B and Player D are Roleblocked, all other actions take place.
What happens when Roleblocker A targets Roleblocker B who targets Roleblocker C who targets Roleblocker D who targets Player E, assuming Player E attempts to use a night action?
Roleblocker B and Roleblocker D are Roleblocked, all other actions take place.

If a Serial Killer, who has their vest in tact, is targeted by a killing action on the current night and a saving action on the previous night, their vest will remain in tact.

If a Serial Killer, who has their vest in tact, is targeted by two different killing actions, and one saving action on the previous night, their vest will be hit.

If a Serial Killer, who has their vest in tact, is targeted by two different killing actions, and two different saving actions on the previous night, their vest will remain in tact.


Beneath the spoiler is a list of all of the Sample Role PMs for all roles that may exist in the game.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Vanilla Townie.
Abilities:

You have no abilities other than your voice and your vote.
Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Cop.
Abilities:

Investigate: Each night phase, you may target one player in the game to investigate them. You will receive a result of "Green", "Red", or "No Result".
Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town 1-Shot Cop.
Abilities:

Investigate: Once, at night, you may target one player in the game to investigate them. You will receive a result of "Green", "Red", or "No Result".
Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Angel.
Abilities:

Heal: Each night phase, you may target one player in the game to heal them on the following night phase. They will be protected from a single kill on the following night phase. You may not target yourself. You may not target the same player two nights in a row.
Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town 1-Shot Angel.
Abilities:

Heal: Once, at night, you may target one player in the game to heal them on the following night phase. They will be protected from a single kill on the following night phase. You may not target yourself.
Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Vigilante.
Abilities:

Kill: Each night phase, you may target another player in the game to attempt to kill them.
Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town 1-Shot Vigilante.
Abilities:

Kill: Once, at night, you may target another player in the game to attempt to kill them.
Win condition:

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Innocent Child.
Abilities:

Reveal: Beneath the OP, there is an image. You may post this image at any time during any day phase. Doing so will reveal that you are the Innocent Child.
Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Mason along with your partner(s) [Player Name] (and [Player Name]).
Abilities:

Masons: You, [Player1], [and {Player2}] all know each other to be town. You may communicate with one another in a private chatroom at any point, including pre-game. This private chatroom may be anywhere, so long as I may access it at all times.
Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Roleblocker.
Abilities:

Roleblock: Each night phase, you may target another player in the game to attempt to block them from performing any night actions. You may not target the same player two nights in a row.
Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town 1-Shot Roleblocker.
Abilities:

Roleblock: Once, at night, you may target another player in the game to attempt to block them from performing any night actions.
Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a 1-shot Mafia Roleblocker, along with your partner, [Player Name].
Abilities:

Factional Communication: At any time, including pre-game, you may communicate with one another in a private chatroom. This private chatroom may be anywhere, so long as I may access it at all times.
Factional Kill: Each night phase, you may send a member of your group to target another player in the game, attempting to kill them.
Roleblock: Once, at night, you may target another player in the game to attempt to block them from performing any night actions.

Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Mafia Roleblocker, along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].
Abilities:

Factional Communication: At any time, including pre-game, you may communicate with one another in a private chatroom. This private chatroom may be anywhere, so long as I may access it at all times.
Factional Kill: Each night phase, you may send a member of your group to target another player in the game, attempting to kill them.
Roleblock: Each night phase, you may target another player in the game to attempt to block them from performing any night actions. You may not target the same player two nights in a row.
Win condition:

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Mafia Godfather, along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]).
Abilities:

Factional Communication: At any time, including pre-game, you may communicate with one another in a private chatroom. This private chatroom may be anywhere, so long as I may access it at all times.
Factional Kill: Each night phase, you may send a member of your group to target another player in the game, attempting to kill them.
Investigation Immune: You will appear as "Green" to any alignment checks.
Win condition:

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a 1-shot Mafia Role Cop, along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]).
Abilities:

Factional Communication: At any time, including pre-game, you may communicate with one another in a private chatroom. This private chatroom may be anywhere, so long as I may access it at all times.
Factional Kill: Each night phase, you may send a member of your group to target another player in the game, attempting to kill them.
Investigate: You may, once, during the night, perform a Role Cop check on any player. If performed, upon the beginning of the following day phase, all living mafia members will receive a private message with the exact Role PM of the targeted player.
Win condition:

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Mafia Role Cop, along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]).
Abilities:

Factional Communication: At any time, including pre-game, you may communicate with one another in a private chatroom. This private chatroom may be anywhere, so long as I may access it at all times.
Factional Kill: Each night phase, you may send a member of your group to target another player in the game, attempting to kill them.
Investigate: Each night phase, you may perform a Role Cop check on any player. If performed, upon the beginning of the following day phase, all living mafia members will receive a private message with the exact Role PM of the targeted player.
Win condition:

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Serial Killer.
Abilities:

Investigation Immune: You will appear as "Green" to any alignment checks.
Passive Nightkill Immunity: You will survive a single attempt on your life, losing the 1-shot Bulletproof Vest if such an action occurs. You will be informed that your Vest was shot at if such an action occurs.
Kill: Each night phase, you may target another player in the game to attempt to kill them.
Win condition:

You win when you are the last player alive, or if you and exactly one mafia member is alive, or if nothing can prevent either situation from occurring.


Signups:
3) DaBackpack - mafia godfather (lynched d4)
2) Bolth mannn / fatfuck42 - mafia roleblocker - LOST at endgame
3) Hakulyte - vanilla town (died n6)
4) flashflash account - vanilla town (lynched d2)
5) Funnygurl555 - vanilla town (died n2)
6) jessiebessie - 1-shot mafia role cop (lynched d3)
7) Ulleabhara / ShadoWolfe - vanilla town - WON at endgame
8) psychoangel691 - vanilla town (lynched d0)
9) leetic - town 1-shot cop (died n5
10) Xiz - town 1-shot vigilante (lynched d1)
11) XelNya - vanilla town (died n1)
12) MixMasterLar - town roleblocker (died n4)
13) Duskfall - vanilla town - WON at endgame
Replacements:
1) ShadoWolfe
2) FreezinIce (27th onward)

deadchat https://discord.gg/rFpt4Fk
wolfchat https://discord.gg/MQJvatS

97 B
10 T
52 C
45 T
33 T
45 T
78 V

BCVTTTT

MAFIA
1 Shot Role Cop
Roleblocker
Godfather

TOWN
1 Shot Cop
1 Shot Vigilante
Roleblocker
7 VT

jessiebessie - mafia 1 shot role cop
Bolth mannn/fatfuck42 - mafia roleblocker
DaBackpack - godfather
leetic - town 1 shot cop
Xiz - town 1 shot vigi
MixMasterLar - town roleblocker
flashflash account - vt
Duskfall - vt
Ulleabhara/ShadoWolfe - vt
Funnygurl555 - vt
Hakulyte - vt
XelNya - vt
psychoangel691 - vt

NIGHT ONE
leetic investigates funnygurl555
xiz shoots leetic
dabackpack wolfkills xelnya
bolth mannn roleblocks xiz
mixmasterlar roleblocks flashflash account

NIGHT TWO
dabackpack wolfkills funnygurl555
bolth mannn roleblocks funnygurl555
jessiebessie investigates duskfall
mixmasterlar roleblocks bolth mannn

NIGHT THREE
bolth mannn roleblocks mixmasterlar
mixmasterlar roleblocks hakulyte

NIGHT FOUR
bolth mannn roleblocks duskfall
dabackpack wolfkills mixmasterlar
mixmasterlar roleblocks shadowolfe

NIGHT FIVE
fatfuck42 wolfkills leetic

NIGHT SIX
fatfuck42 wolfkills hakulyte

Bolth mannn 05-8-2020 05:51 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Copy paste from game thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn (Post 4730315)
Gg town

Firstly, I’m okay, my sisters in intensive care so when I found out my head really wasn’t in the game anymore.

I was looking forward to F3, I knew I was likely getting lynched anyway but I was excited to test myself and see if I could sneak in a win or not.

FFA, I just wanted to say straight up, is that early catch of me that you did during d0 or d1 whenever it was, genuinely did impress me and I was being candid with what I was saying. Yes, I was a wolf, but I genuinely do intend to take that sort of thinking into my future town games.

This game is yet again more proof that if I make it past night one, I’m definitely scum

I figured out my wolftell early on, it’s ate, so I definitely intend to work on that in the future and hopefully I don’t give myself away too easily in future games.

Got a long way to go, but I do enjoy the game. I enjoy it more as town but I enjoy it nonetheless

Thanks guys


Hakulyte 05-8-2020 07:24 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiz (Post 4727909)
Final reads list:

Town:

Funny
MML


Wolf:
Bolth/Shadow/Jess
Bolth/Dusk/Jess
Bolth/Shadow/Dusk

I still don't get why DBP was so anal about the sk thing, makes me think (hope) he is one. If you are DBP i hope you win lol

I think DBP is actually town over wolf tho tbh... but thats a coinflip


Quote:

Originally Posted by Funnygurl555 (Post 4727961)
bolth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funnygurl555 (Post 4727912)
jess


Quote:

Originally Posted by flashflash account (Post 4728674)
I'm the cop with a green check on MML and a red check on DBP, making them wolf partners and MML the godfather exactly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makilaz (Post 4730323)
4) flashflash account - vanilla town

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makilaz (Post 4730323)
3) DaBackpack - mafia godfather


Quote:

Originally Posted by Makilaz (Post 4729007)
in the night...

nothing happened

we have reached day 3, ending on May 4th at 7:00 PM Server Time

you may now post

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4729008)
That's probably the best news in this entire game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4729012)
I blocked Haku, and with no death in the night that's telling, but assuming DBP isn't the maddest of lads and actually a wolf I'll hold off on pushing Haku until everyone checks in.

I had a lot to say about FFA but frankly, I'll leave it as is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4729819)
I never support DBP lynch here. If hes scum then fuck me for it in post but thats not a good lynch today and probably all game to me.

I dont believe Haku is 100% town

I think Dusk is probably wolf

But i think Jessie legit is wolf no matter what

Dusk just defended not lynching her and people keep deflecting from reading the slot all game because "lol inactive". Slots like that in Mylo is the exact reason DBP and I have a polixy to lynch inactives early game but then Xiz and FFA happen and the game went off rails. But yeah Leetic you arw wrong: People have been lowkey defending the slot.

Jessie

If I'm wrong and me not being here fucks us, I take responsibility for losing the game. If you disagree with the target chose either Dusk or Haku. Never DBP here, and i dont support bolth atm

I'm off to be an adult now.



I feel like everyone has 300 IQ in this game except me.

fatfuck42 05-8-2020 07:35 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Aww, I was hoping I'd get one last chance to try to weasel my way out of the lynch.

gg!

Hakulyte 05-8-2020 07:43 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4730327)
Aww, I was hoping I'd get one last chance to try to weasel my way out of the lynch.

gg!

I think your best bet was to keep me alive, NK Dusk and try to convince Shado that MML's roleblock on me was real.

fatfuck42 05-8-2020 08:01 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4730328)
I think your best bet was to keep me alive, NK Dusk and try to convince Shado that MML's roleblock on me was real.

Yeah, I think so too. My mindset at the time was that shado wouldn't buy it since if you were the wolf you would've taken me and dusk to f3 since you knew he'd vote me and I'd vote him and it'd be a straightforward win for you.

XelNya 05-8-2020 08:31 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
I got to partake in x i z c h a o s

A solid game

ShadoWolfe 05-8-2020 09:40 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Good game wolfteam, you had us in the first half not gonna lie [emoji23]

Shout out to DBP for surviving three separate town thunderdomes / tunnels

ShadoWolfe 05-8-2020 09:41 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by XelNya (Post 4730335)
I got to partake in x i z c h a o s

A solid game

RIP you died too soon

ShadoWolfe 05-8-2020 09:53 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4729996)
To your defense, Shado's game looks annoyingly flawless and perfect.



It seems like he quickly get the right calls on everything and vote at the right place.



It worries me.

This killed me

the sun fan 05-8-2020 10:03 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4730348)
This killed me

this whole fuckin' game killed me

ShadoWolfe 05-8-2020 11:20 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4730350)
this whole fuckin' game killed me

Yeah I feel you
I'm surprised this thread isn't popping off given the insane sequence of plays tbh, but I guess everything was prolly beaten to death in deadchat

ShadoWolfe 05-8-2020 11:22 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Also town couldn't have asked for a better C than leetic.
Dude was solid, kept calm and tried to consider everything, prodded people and pushed interactions and then came to fair conclusions.

First time playing with him and it was a real pleasure to do so

MixMasterLar 05-8-2020 11:56 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Town couldn't have deserved a win less then here. This game was absolutely filled to the brim with horrible plays, decisions, and baffling gambits that did nothing to help town's agenda. I'm no exception considering I wasn't even paying close attention, but there's no way we've collectively played a solid game here.

If I was in charge I'd delete the damn thread

Funnygurl555 05-8-2020 12:05 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
despite all of town's misplays, individually this is one of my best games in terms of accuracy

i'll remember this fondly

idk when the "talk" is gonna happen though. it needs to. town twg strategy: needs fixing. whatever, i'll give my notes:

1) fake claiming as town: no, unless you really really think people are gonna get your gambit. on ffr, this is most likely a no
2) town needs louder voices. it's preset that a certain few can/should lead games, and when they roll wolf, it's disastrous. mml was pocketed by dbp for most of the game, for example.
3) if you play twg with the idea that if people "play bad," they deserve to be mislynched, you'll lose. you have to work around people's bad plays, man. not everyone will play the way you want them to
4) be nicer to each other. y'all as a whole gotta be nicer to ffa; it's sickening to see the way he's treated in games. and aside from the fake claim, he was doin p darn good here
5) listen to my jess reads i'm always right

ShadoWolfe 05-8-2020 12:19 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
I've always listened to FFA. I've said this many times, but his reads, wherever they come from, are right a surprising amount of the time. Even in this game, right up until the fake claim, his play was superb. He was vocal and talking to everyone.

If you disagree with his reads, then fine. Disagree. Talk about it. That helps town by putting ideas to the test against each other. But dismissing him and refusing to entertain his ideas doesn't make him bad, it makes whoever does that bad. The fact that he felt driven to fake claim because:
"how else can I lynch dbp"... "this was the best thing I could do"... "how else can I lynch dbp" is a failure on every player who dismisses/ignores any other player in this server. That needs to change


With all that said, once he fake claims as town and is caught in an impossible world and retracts only thereafter, it becomes incumbent to lynch him and resolve the slot. There's ways to fps well and ways where trying it causes a town collapse as town PRs out in defense of wolves because of a VT fake claiming. And saying you're gonna do it AGAIN, FFA, is only gonna drive people away from listening to you ever.

ShadoWolfe 05-8-2020 12:23 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4730355)
Town couldn't have deserved a win less then here. This game was absolutely filled to the brim with horrible plays, decisions, and baffling gambits that did nothing to help town's agenda. I'm no exception considering I wasn't even paying close attention, but there's no way we've collectively played a solid game here.

If I was in charge I'd delete the damn thread

Nah. You're just bitter 'cause DBP (kidding [emoji14] but I did say you'd regret it in postgame)

More seriously: Yes there were two bad plays, but as a whole town came together and brought home the win.

That just goes to show that any situation is reversible and assuming a town loss because X isn't productive.

ShadoWolfe 05-8-2020 12:42 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Since we're having a meta conversation courtesy of FG...

FFRTWG as a whole is a really strong server. Anyone who's played anywhere else and came back here has said the same thing. We're the only mafia server that exists that has sent as many reps to World Finals as there are seasons of MU World Champs.

All of that is worth being proud of. Our sitemeta as a whole prides itself on optimal plays. Which is great, but people play differently. So what ends up happening is the players that fit within the sitemeta get listened to, and people with a different play style don't. That's the only thing I'd change. Do I think we need to be more open to town fake claims? No, I think they aren't optimal town play and there's always a better way of making a case. We have the record we have for a reason, and the meta on here IS solid.

And the way that our consideration of other playstyles as a whole can change is simple. Everyone here already knows that optimal play and town play aren't the same thing: townies make suboptimal plays and wolves can make optimal town plays to get townread. But what knowing that has produced thus far towards different playstyles is an attitude of "I read you town but I'm gonna ignore your thoughts". That's what's bad. So we all need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves if that pride of being a "strong player who gets listened to" results in that attitude of dismissal. Because it shouldn't. If they're town, then the different perspective they offer is always gonna be beneficial to talk about.

We all also need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves if our "different play style" encourages discussion, or just results from frustration from people reading you wrong. Because what we can ALL do is share the why and the how of what we believe. Meaning if I think player X is scum, I gotta build my case rationally and not on the assumption that I'm obviously town and he's obviously scum.

If both the people that play to site meta and people that don't can do those things, then we'll be a much better site as a whole.

Funnygurl555 05-8-2020 12:49 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4730359)
Since we're having a meta conversation courtesy of FG...

FFRTWG as a whole is a really strong server. Anyone who's played anywhere else and came back here has said the same thing. We're the only mafia server that exists that has sent as many reps to World Finals as there are seasons of MU World Champs.

All of that is worth being proud of. Our sitemeta as a whole prides itself on optimal plays. Which is great, but people play differently. So what ends up happening is the players that fit within the sitemeta get listened to, and people with a different play style don't. That's the only thing I'd change. Do I think we need to be more open to town fake claims? No, I think they aren't optimal town play and there's always a better way of making a case. We have the record we have for a reason, and the meta on here IS solid.

And the way that our consideration of other playstyles as a whole can change is simple. Everyone here already knows that optimal play and town play aren't the same thing: townies make suboptimal plays and wolves can make optimal town plays to get townread. But what knowing that has produced thus far towards different playstyles is an attitude of "I read you town but I'm gonna ignore your thoughts". That's what's bad. So we all need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves if that pride of being a "strong player who gets listened to" results in that attitude of dismissal. Because it shouldn't. If they're town, then the different perspective they offer is always gonna be beneficial to talk about.

We all also need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves if our "different play style" encourages discussion, or just results from frustration from people reading you wrong. Because what we can ALL do is share the why and the how of what we believe. Meaning if I think player X is scum, I gotta build my case rationally and not on the assumption that I'm obviously town and he's obviously scum.

If both the people that play to site meta and people that don't can do those things, then we'll be a much better site as a whole.

i agree wholeheartedly with this post

Makilaz 05-8-2020 01:06 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
I have a single game submission so far please send me more for voting

MixMasterLar 05-8-2020 04:43 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4730357)
"how else can I lynch dbp"... "this was the best thing I could do"... "how else can I lynch dbp" is a failure on every player who dismisses/ignores any other player in this server. That needs to change

No, thats bullshit

He read DBP scum for no reason other then feels scum and couldnt make a solid case that wasn't "I just feel it guys listen to me" and then instead of building worlds with partners or tackling different aspects of the game he fakeclaimed putting the remaining town PR at risk.

Thats not other people playing badly and you know it.

Ulleabhara 05-8-2020 05:13 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Live footage of town this game:
https://ytcropper.com/cropped/kN5eb508ad9d527

Bolth mannn 05-8-2020 05:37 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
@meta

As a new player, I meant what I said in the thread. This is a solid community but it’s not overly welcoming to new players. There’s a lot of strong players who, while good at the game, just try to take control and bully everyone else who make unconfident or inexperienced reads, or people that aren’t always as active as we’d like them to be.

I think the community as a whole needs to try and be more accepting of the different ways people try to play, and not be so quick to dismiss people. Engage even if you think something isn’t a threat or ‘not worth engaging with’

XelNya 05-8-2020 05:58 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn (Post 4730378)
@meta

As a new player, I meant what I said in the thread. This is a solid community but it’s not overly welcoming to new players. There’s a lot of strong players who, while good at the game, just try to take control and bully everyone else who make unconfident or inexperienced reads, or people that aren’t always as active as we’d like them to be.

I think the community as a whole needs to try and be more accepting of the different ways people try to play, and not be so quick to dismiss people. Engage even if you think something isn’t a threat or ‘not worth engaging with’

no

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4730343)
RIP you died too soon

I really didn't though, I tunneled lar all day because it's funny and xiz said fuck it i'mma make him useful at the least

I do have to say I think people really need to look into xiz less from a "town / antitown" perspective and read his motives, it makes him way easier to read imho. I only wish this read worked on lar tbh because I pick on him because it's fun but because I have no clue how to read him because his play is super interchangeable like Charu rofl

I'm not gonna claim I knew what he was doing, but you'd have a hard time selling me his intentions weren't good because even c h a o s x i
z
doesn't out like that in d1 rofl

just my two cents on the part of the game I was alive for I guess

Bolth mannn 05-8-2020 05:59 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
And this is what I mean (:

Ulleabhara 05-8-2020 06:24 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4730327)
Aww, I was hoping I'd get one last chance to try to weasel my way out of the lynch.

gg!

If it's any consolation, here's the thing I would have shared if you'd have won:

ff42 and Shado's POV of this game:
https://ytcropper.com/cropped/MI5eb4d7f602433


---

@Makilaz, continuing the balance discussion from the dead chat: yeah, I don't have much meaningful to say, because the only similar setups I've played where either "deck games" (where a list of possible roles would be posted at game start but we didn't know if there could be multiples or all of them existed), or games based on a point value system for powers, where the two sides are more independent than here. It feels like the phenomenon of certain players being a keystone for either team by virtue of their role is something inherent in this genre of procedurally-generated setups. I'm not sure it's something that can really be "fixed", but you could modify things or create a new setup that makes the fracture points less painful.

---

I will not partake of the salt licks in this thread.

ShadoWolfe 05-8-2020 06:44 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4730372)
No, thats bullshit



He read DBP scum for no reason other then feels scum and couldnt make a solid case that wasn't "I just feel it guys listen to me" and then instead of building worlds with partners or tackling different aspects of the game he fakeclaimed putting the remaining town PR at risk.



Thats not other people playing badly and you know it.

I'm with you. I don't excuse his bad play. I specifically said it was bad play in that same post. I also said that everyone needs to communicate why they think what they think and not just assume ppl should follow them.

But at the same time, the fact that he felt that doing that was the only way he was gonna be heard is a symptom of what I'm talking about, whether you wanna deny it or not.

ShadoWolfe 05-8-2020 06:44 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulleabhara (Post 4730377)
Live footage of town this game:
https://ytcropper.com/cropped/kN5eb508ad9d527

The motorcycle rider was also town this game

ShadoWolfe 05-8-2020 06:47 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
BTW reading ulle in deadchat being particularly judgy of how I play in her slot was funny, but also something I now never wanna do again

She seems like she'd remind me of it forever if I ever fuck up

Ulleabhara 05-8-2020 06:58 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4730384)
BTW reading ulle in deadchat being particularly judgy of how I play in her slot was funny, but also something I now never wanna do again

She seems like she'd remind me of it forever if I ever fuck up


Oh, pish-posh. I had no business trying to ghost-backseat-drive the slot anyway since I replaced out...it just makes me instinctively cringe whenever I see hints of "town has been rightfully suspicious of LWS all game and/or makes the right call initially but lets paranoia get the best of them and lose it" since I've mostly been in the losing side of that scenario XD

But I understand why that happens – in F3s particularly – and would never hold grudges against anyone for that!

Funnygurl555 05-8-2020 07:20 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn (Post 4730378)
@meta

As a new player, I meant what I said in the thread. This is a solid community but it’s not overly welcoming to new players. There’s a lot of strong players who, while good at the game, just try to take control and bully everyone else who make unconfident or inexperienced reads, or people that aren’t always as active as we’d like them to be.

I think the community as a whole needs to try and be more accepting of the different ways people try to play, and not be so quick to dismiss people. Engage even if you think something isn’t a threat or ‘not worth engaging with’

yeah we sure do have that problem here. but as I said in the game, scream into the void man. we listen more than you think even though it's not enough for sure

Funnygurl555 05-8-2020 07:21 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulleabhara (Post 4730377)
Live footage of town this game:
https://ytcropper.com/cropped/kN5eb508ad9d527

LOL too real

ShadoWolfe 05-8-2020 07:55 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulleabhara (Post 4730385)
Oh, pish-posh. I had no business trying to ghost-backseat-drive the slot anyway since I replaced out...it just makes me instinctively cringe whenever I see hints of "town has been rightfully suspicious of LWS all game and/or makes the right call initially but lets paranoia get the best of them and lose it" since I've mostly been in the losing side of that scenario XD

But I understand why that happens – in F3s particularly – and would never hold grudges against anyone for that!

Oh pish-posh, that's a load of half-baked pollycock claptrap served with a side of gobbledygook and you know it.
Reading back is important in F3, and paranoia is controllable, but I appreciate you not holding grudges after all

dAnceguy117 05-8-2020 09:37 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
I didnt read anything just here to say: setups where vt fakeclaims are viable are pretty rad. ok bye

MixMasterLar 05-9-2020 12:53 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4730382)
But at the same time, the fact that he felt that doing that was the only way he was gonna be heard is a symptom of what I'm talking about, whether you wanna deny it or not.

Symptom of what? Him being fustrated by his limitations? That's not the rest of town's fault and whatever silly little taglines you want to add to the end of your posts doesn't suddenly make it different. People listen when you can build a case and do work and they don't if your wasting your time.

You are, in effect, saying that town should of blindly listen to someone who couldnt build a case because he <might> be right for the wrong reasons. No.

"But no one will listen to my gut unless I put the game in jeopardy" shouldn't be anyone's mantra.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117 (Post 4730390)
I didnt read anything just here to say: setups where vt fakeclaims are viable are pretty rad. ok bye

I'll let you know if I ever see one

flashflash account 05-9-2020 01:47 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flashflash account (Post 4727811)
BRO DBP WASN'T EVEN HERE
HE STILL HASN'T ANSWERED HALF MY QUESTIONS
WHAT

STOP DEFENDING THIS PILE OF SLUSH AND HELP ME MAKE IT DO STUFF

oh sry I'll try harder

DaBackpack 05-9-2020 06:50 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
I think some basic/re-learning games would be good

FFR is one of the best mafia communities, but because of that, it seems like a lot of players have zoomed past fundamentals and more towards "endgame", if that makes sense

Duskfall 05-9-2020 01:35 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
I think you guys are being overly hard on mikey btw the play wasn't that bad and in any world where mikey was not roleblocked would've been amazing, he made a risky gamble on someone being wolf, backed himself and was correct on his read. If he is not roleblocked he forces through a difficult lynch on scum, because he was certain on a read and backed himself.

Having to resort to actions such as faking cop feels to me like it is more our fault as fellow town players for not finding mikey who had a correct read he was 100 percent on. We misread a 1v1 at the end of the day, he was the guy who caught scum he was 100 percent on and willing to gamble the game, had we listened to him then we lynch scum, but we didn't.

Mikey takes away a lesson on how to push correctly sure, because he did fuck the pooch a bit (though not nearly as bad as others think). But everyone else should take away a lesson on listening to what other players say. I do stand by what I said in game, albeit I was a bit more aggressive there. Mafia is a team game and someone else's read can be as effective or even moreso than your own. FFR is a good site sure, so listen to other good players around you and trust their skill, especially when they are more sure than you are on a read. Mafia is a team game after all.

DaBackpack 05-9-2020 01:55 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Duskfall (Post 4730419)
I think you guys are being overly hard on mikey btw the play wasn't that bad and in any world where mikey was not roleblocked would've been amazing, he made a risky gamble on someone being wolf, backed himself and was correct on his read. If he is not roleblocked he forces through a difficult lynch on scum, because he was certain on a read and backed himself.

Having to resort to actions such as faking cop feels to me like it is more our fault as fellow town players for not finding mikey who had a correct read he was 100 percent on. We misread a 1v1 at the end of the day, he was the guy who caught scum he was 100 percent on and willing to gamble the game, had we listened to him then we lynch scum, but we didn't.

Mikey takes away a lesson on how to push correctly sure, because he did fuck the pooch a bit (though not nearly as bad as others think). But everyone else should take away a lesson on listening to what other players say. I do stand by what I said in game, albeit I was a bit more aggressive there. Mafia is a team game and someone else's read can be as effective or even moreso than your own. FFR is a good site sure, so listen to other good players around you and trust their skill, especially when they are more sure than you are on a read. Mafia is a team game after all.

we never blocked mikey. we knew he was lying because I was the Mafia Godfather and we also knew the full setup.

Duskfall 05-9-2020 02:10 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBackpack (Post 4730423)
we never blocked mikey. we knew he was lying because I was the Mafia Godfather and we also knew the full setup.

No mml did, if he hadn't you would have gotten lynched

the sun fan 05-9-2020 10:10 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Duskfall (Post 4730419)
I think you guys are being overly hard on mikey btw the play wasn't that bad and in any world where mikey was not roleblocked would've been amazing, he made a risky gamble on someone being wolf, backed himself and was correct on his read. If he is not roleblocked he forces through a difficult lynch on scum, because he was certain on a read and backed himself.

Having to resort to actions such as faking cop feels to me like it is more our fault as fellow town players for not finding mikey who had a correct read he was 100 percent on. We misread a 1v1 at the end of the day, he was the guy who caught scum he was 100 percent on and willing to gamble the game, had we listened to him then we lynch scum, but we didn't.

Mikey takes away a lesson on how to push correctly sure, because he did fuck the pooch a bit (though not nearly as bad as others think). But everyone else should take away a lesson on listening to what other players say. I do stand by what I said in game, albeit I was a bit more aggressive there. Mafia is a team game and someone else's read can be as effective or even moreso than your own. FFR is a good site sure, so listen to other good players around you and trust their skill, especially when they are more sure than you are on a read. Mafia is a team game after all.

its a VERY bad play in C9++ because the primary goal is to make the letters of the setup make sense, and the letters didn't make sense when mikey held onto his claim

he also outed Lar, when lar could've stayed hidden

dAnceguy117 05-9-2020 11:52 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4730404)
I'll let you know if I ever see one

to be clear, I def did not mean this setup

but like catch me at no cardflip zone

dAnceguy117 05-9-2020 11:53 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
I generally prefer cardflip games by far but I still think more obfuscated ones are interesting

MixMasterLar 05-10-2020 02:03 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Postgame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Duskfall (Post 4730419)
I think you guys are being overly hard on mikey btw the play wasn't that bad and in any world where mikey was not roleblocked would've been amazing, he made a risky gamble on someone being wolf, backed himself and was correct on his read. If he is not roleblocked he forces through a difficult lynch on scum, because he was certain on a read and backed himself.

Having to resort to actions such as faking cop feels to me like it is more our fault as fellow town players for not finding mikey who had a correct read he was 100 percent on. We misread a 1v1 at the end of the day, he was the guy who caught scum he was 100 percent on and willing to gamble the game, had we listened to him then we lynch scum, but we didn't.

Mikey takes away a lesson on how to push correctly sure, because he did fuck the pooch a bit (though not nearly as bad as others think). But everyone else should take away a lesson on listening to what other players say. I do stand by what I said in game, albeit I was a bit more aggressive there. Mafia is a team game and someone else's read can be as effective or even moreso than your own. FFR is a good site sure, so listen to other good players around you and trust their skill, especially when they are more sure than you are on a read. Mafia is a team game after all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4730372)
No, thats bullshit

He read DBP scum for no reason other then feels scum and couldnt make a solid case that wasn't "I just feel it guys listen to me" and then instead of building worlds with partners or tackling different aspects of the game he fakeclaimed putting the remaining town PR at risk.

Thats not other people playing badly and you know it.

...


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