My depersonalization over the last year
 

Hello. A lot of you know me or know of me and a lot of you do not. That doesn't matter because i am in a time of crisis and it is time for a change. A lot of you could prob tell i used to love marijuana, ranting and raving about it, yeah that's so stupid hahaha wow. Anyway, about a year ago, i stopped smoking weed so i could pick up a manufacturing job at a great company.
Job was given and i was well on my way to being a production work cell operator which is a job that i felt was perfect for me because i had been studying machines and assembly for a long time prior. I may have stopped smoking weed but i started smoking herbal incense, or spice / K2. The last year of my life has been complete shit because of this drug. I now have high blood pressure, kidneys that don't like to work properly, i'm emaciated and pale, and my blood vessels are constricted due to poisoning from this synthetic drug.
I worked for some time and eventually just could not go on, because i was very sick inside. My girlfriend was living with me at the time, zgf1 yeah yeah, and we were just consuming toxic amounts of it unknowingly and i think that sent us into a tangent but i do not blame her for a thing she is still awesome and she was not effected like i am now, i became extremely addicted, and she watched it happen. It started with me thinking it was literally a synthetic form of thc, but i was very wrong, i would never have ingested that or offered it to anyone. After doing a lot of looking around, trips to multiple hospitals for testing, and talking to police officers and government officials about it, i have found that it's a controlled substance.
It's the equivalent of meth or heroine and it has such adverse effects on the human body that doctors and physicians are becoming frustrated over the matter. I can tell you that because i stumped about 13 doctors yesterday at mary immaculate. Recently the local Bonsai pipe and tobacco shop was shut down for selling herbal incense and bath salts, the owner was a friend of mine and he is now digging himself out of a nightmare as well. They seized millions from him, this was a 2 minute walk from my front door, literally.
Currently in gloucester county VA (15 minute drive) they are selling new blends of herbal incense at High Tyde and theyre killing people left and right. Here are some of the names for sick pleasure 'DR Feel Good' 'F'd up!' 'Kotton mouth' 'Vatos locos' 'Burning angel' 'Death Grip' 'Brainfreeze' 'demon child' 'Hysteria' 'Kenny's Resurrection' 'Burned out' 'you're number one' 'Anonymous' 'black lotus' 'black lotus elite' 'green goddess' 'rotten egg' 'Liberty' the list goes on and on and on. When i go to the store, the lines are 70 customers long, no one speaks a word to each other, and everyone asks 'what's your best seller for the week'. It says not for human consumption on the package and lists no website or manufacturers of the herbal product, and the employees say 'remember this is not for human consumption' and they wink at you and tell you to be careful as you are leaving.
They sleep in the store by the drink machine so they can stay open 24 hours to sell spice to thousands of people a day. They have an alarm installed that triggers when cars / customers pull up to the store after 3 am. This is fucking sickening to me. I'm so sick lately that i can't even enjoy my days anymore.
This is where i mention depersonalization. This drug has sucked the life out of me and i really hate to wake up now. I have a hard time coping with my days now and every move i make or thought in my head makes me anxious when i'm not on the drug, everything feels like a lie now and i kind of just wish i could go back to my normal self or just stop living. I can't complain to the store owners because you get kicked out for 72 hours if you mention consuming the product. So i started going to hospitals for knowledge.

Has anyone else heard of herbal incense or Spice? It's swept through every state now and the chemists are constantly changing the compounds so it can stay legal in your state. I want more insight from others. I have seen every documentary and read every blog on herbal incense and synthetic drugs and i'm disgusted, i want to know more.

Going to detox and rehabilitate myself at an in patient facility very soon as i qualified for a bed due to addiction and depression. Herbal incense is a huge problem in most areas on the east coast still and the headshops will not stop selling synthetic drugs despite cops taking patrol, new laws, and knowing people are kicking the curb. I will probably shit a brick at the toxicity reports during initial detox as my doctor could not provide one. she didn't know i was hallucinating and on the verge of a psychotic meltdown in her office as i waited. Wish luck and do research and don't do synthetic drugs i'll be back in due time. I made this image of a known herbal incense dealer. I thought it would be one of those "yeah that drug is probably bad" kind of photos to look at. Seeya! i want to get better, i didn't mean for this at all, there is a brighter side

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

why did you decide to start smoking spice?

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

pretty much my thoughts haha

must you smoke something


glad to see you making an effort towards recovery though

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

I started smoking spice because i wanted to remain high while i got into a new job. Herbal incense has no drug testing available. I'm sick. This is not the point.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

get back to me on info about the detox asap

you got my number and my skype so feel free to hit me up when you need someone to talk to. stay strong bro

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

lol I remember our intense battle for overall rank 1.

On topic though... I had a friend that went down the same path, only he still is going further down it and using pretty much half of the hard drugs out there. Not sure why the government turned a blind eye to this K2/incense stuff for so long. Or how it is legal over weed for that matter lol. You can literally buy the stuff at some local gas stations. Good luck with your detox though, hope you can get healthy.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

spice is disgustin dawg

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Good luck, my addiction about a year ago began with spice that they re-labled as potpurri, had a picture of popeye on it and was super cheap. I was lucky enough to quit before it really grabbed hold. At the time still living with my parents I stopped when I went to school one day had an enormous panic attack and threw up all over a locker :/ That stuff is fucking stupid, it was a extremely sluggish high and made my blood pressure rise higher than ever. I really, really hope you make it through your detox and are able to deal with the fucking awful withdrawals that stuff puts you through.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

shoulda educated yourself beforehand on that shit. sucks to be you now man. get well.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Did you know about its effects before you started smoking it?

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

I have never heard of this before, but I hope that you can stay strong in the face of your problem. It is really shitty to see people taking advantage of others like this, makes me wonder how some people can sleep at night. I don't know what it is like to be addicted to a drug, but I could only imagine how scary it must be. You seem like you really want to make a change though, and the mind can be a really strong asset in situations like these. You're in my thoughts and prayers dude.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Thank you so much. Yeah potpourri, they also label it as that. They tell you to burn it in a sachet burner with sage oil to make your bedroom smell good, but that's a lie. One hit and youre having a heart attack / tripping. Sorry to hear about your experience with spice i am not looking forward to withdrawals and i worry about relapsing later down the line. and to ilikexd, i did not know about the health effects prior, as bonsai pipe and tobacco did not disclaim what was in it, i just know they all smoked it and loved selling it.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

best of luck man, get well

also if you need Jesus send me a PM

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

how is burning it in the intended way a lie????
smoking it is what hurts your fuckin lungs man not usin it like you're supposed to in the NON-HURTFUL way

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

That sounds so horrible :< I hope that you recover and get well soon~ Keep yourself healthy Smitty you know better. You have my full support love you lots

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Thank you.

top, they tell you that's it's intended purpose but it's a lie, okay? It is a synthetic drug to be smoked, not to be burned in an incense burner.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

i know what spice is dawg. it really is an incense that was turned into a synthetic drug because people like to act retarded sometimes idk why they just do.

smoked it like 3 times, puked once and was done. shit's stupid and you can tell the second you take your first hit. it's so disgusting.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Maybe you should say 'was' an incense because i tried to burn these blends in a sachet and they did not scent a single thing in my home. It has changed. Yeah first hit, 10 seconds go by, and you regret it.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

damn straight tho! dunno how you did it man

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Don't other cannabinoids show up in a drug test as well? I think certain ones if they're chemically similar enough to THC it could potentially...

Anyhow, it is good for you to stop. Sometimes a sort of Stockholm syndrome happens with a drug that can leave you strung out and anxious. It's making it worse by continuing it's use, yet you perceive it to be something that can help/maintain it. After you stop, you'll probably have to just take a lot of time off from altering your state, getting yourself in a more mindful position.

Not all synthetic cannabinoids are bad, but some ESPECIALLY perpetuate depersonalization, which is a breeding ground for long lasting panic attacks (because there's nothing that you can hold onto sorta, you're too detached with your rationale).

It's shitty that companies will exploit the legal grey area at any cost. There are more research chemicals out there than ever before.

If it were legal to do so you could buy a strain of weed that has almost 0% THC and very high CBD levels and that might overtime reverse some of the general anxiety and dissociative effects.

In the meantime, find songs that keep you feeling grounded, and also find songs that will help you let go, and just let the depersonalization really consume you for a bit just to let things vent. Prevention is the biggest thing really. Overtime you will learn (if you pay attention enough) certain ideas/thoughts/responses can trigger you to begin falling out of it.

That's if you have a similar depersonalization disorder as I do, or at least symptoms of it. Anyhow goodluck, live n learn.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

It's technically an incense, if you count the fact that it's material that's been sprayed with something with smoke that will ~change the mood~. The fact that dried papery stuff sprayed with chemicals is called incense, makes cigarettes sound like they need to be called incense cylinders.

Anyhoo, the chemicals added to these were added intentionally because of their similarity in effects to THC. I've even had salvia that was sprayed with synthetic cannabinoids that had been seen to cause really intense dissociation, but it did not fool me.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Mr. Smitty:

You and I have had countless conversations over the phone regarding this. But, I will summarize everything there here as well for your personal support.

First, spice isn't something that is going to be banned completely for a long time. I used to work on a farm that produced and sold Black Lotus and Black Lotus Elite. I can find the article online about the farm and how it was shut down for processing the substance, but never banning the substance. The reason is because of the chemicals that are used within the incense itself. Some of the chemicals are linked to household cleaning items, and if they ban the chemical, they ban the cleaning product.

It's a long vicious circle that the Federal Government has been in with this Herbal Incense/Spice conundrum, but I highly doubt, with the recent states legalizing legitimate Marijuana, that they will ban Spice as well.

Also, it's amazing that you want to rehabilitate yourself. That is always the hardest step to take. Going to an inpatient facility is also another step up. You have no choice in there but to go through your withdrawl. They will help you a lot more then just a cold turkey or slow down on your own time. But, you NEED to have the mentality to do it.

I did a lot of drugs man. It's the main reason why I went from a 3.95 GPA guy with scholarships to colleges for sports and academics to where I am at today. I threw everything away for personal family issues and drugs. It sucks. But, man, one day I threw it all out of my head and sought help, and did it on my own. Cold turkey everything, but it was a bitch. You are doing it a much safer and better way, and you MUST (can't stress that enough) MUST stick to this man.

Not for nothing dude, but you also should let me know of the place you will sign yourself into, because all places allow visitors (at least around me and up north) and visiting people that are going through what you are is almost necessary. It would put you in good spirits. So you need to let me know so I can come visit.

Also, when you get out, remember what I told you. Vitamins, exercise, keep motivated, keep busy. Remember that man. And make sure you eat a lot. You need to get your body back to the healthy state.

Keep your head up brother. You got the digits so call me whenever you want anytime. We're all proud of you for taking this step, just follow through, and you'll achieve whatever you want.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

It IS technically an incense, but when i went to burn it, the chemicals did not permeate. You can seriously order huge batches of these test chemicals from china, but after testing and lab reports, nothing. Up and down results, solvents that didnt fully dissipate, turpentine , acetone, nail polish remover, gasoline. Even chemicals combining with other chemicals to form new mixtures never before seen by doctors.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

good luck with your recovery, smitty. i really hope things work out for you. addiction is really rough and i'm glad you are seeking help for this.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

I just.. i really appreciate this everyone. I know that i can kick this in due time. It's nice to have ones that care about you. I have done horrible things in the last year and i want to make it better. I even went to the chapel at the hospital yesterday... because i feared in my moment of psychosis that i was going to die and i did not want to be alone.
For me to get past this, will be another chance at life. My heart is kinda beatin fast :/

I guess i should mention i'm kind of seeing a 31 year old woman, who is a commander in the army, that knows about my addiction, who is my nextdoor neighbor and has a 5 year old son. She treats me like gold and i also feel that she will be a strong point for me making it out alive. She is pregnant by me, we don't know what to do yet.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

The easiest way to rid yourself of this kind of thing, is to disconnect yourself from the entire lifestyle itself. Might not sound fun, but addiction is a real problem. Ridding yourself of an addiction is a lifestyle change. It's never easy, but it's worth it in the end.

I dated a girl who was addicted to cocaine. In order to rid herself of the addiction, she disconnected herself from everyone and everything that had anything to do with drugs. It took her some time, but she tackled it. Nowadays, she's no longer doing drugs or even smoking cigarettes for that matter. She's happier than ever. Things can get better, you just really have to be serious about it. Finding something to occupy yourself is probably the easiest way to help yourself.

Life is short, cherish it. Good luck on the rehab. Take it seriously and don't take your eyes off of your goal. Not for a second.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

You can do it, man. And whatever life throws at you, don't wonder about if an event will be the end of everything or not. Keep fighting until you hear the bell ring. And talk to people when you feel alone, like you just did. :)

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

I'm glad you're getting help, that feels like an awful way to live. Good luck getting through, it's gonna be tough but you'll feel better about yourself in the future for doing it. I think it would be a good idea to do follow-up counseling for relapse prevention of some kind too; you might think you've completely recovered but your brain will be subconsciously preparing itself for a relapse at any time, best not to take any chances.

Wish you all the best!

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Dear Smitty:

It's been quite a while since we've talked, and I had no idea any of this was happening to you. Although I wish things like this never happened, and wish things could just get better automatically, I understand that it's not something you can wish away. It's wonderful to hear that you are getting help. It's never too late to get help. I wish you the best in your recovery.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Good morning everyone and thank you for the advice and kind words. i am having violent withdrawals right now i just woke up and i really want to use. The fact i can go downstairs and drive to high tyde easily and get some is pissing me off to no end. I really want to hurt someone there and i am worrying i might do just that

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

In all seriousness, you should change your avatar and your profile background. Even that reminder of things is going to make it harder for you.

Hang in there buddy.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Going to what devonin said, change your avatar and profile background and keep yourself occupied on something else. One of the worst things to do in this kind of situation is to not be focused on something else besides thoughts from the drug addiction. And, of course, good luck on dealing with the withdrawals.

Also, question about testing for jobs: Don't they do hair tests now? Urine tests were said to be easier to fool, but if the synthetic marijuana you mentioned has all these adverse effects wouldn't the hair testing catch it?

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

I imagine that they can find chemicals, but if those chemicals aren't on the list of "Chemicals you aren't allowed to have in your body" they can't really do anything to you because of it.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Hey smitty, your story touched me very much. I am usually really abrasive against people who do drugs, drink, or smoke (which all count as drugs by the way) but i very much respect your will to make a change and get back on your feet after coming so close to dig your own grave. Listen up, stick to the people who want you to get better, people who care about you and are there to support you trough this, and remove everyone else from your life. Ask for help, it will definitely be given to you by the right people. Fight the drug, go through widthrawal and then work on fixing the part of yourself which craves for drugs and put you in this situation in the first place.

Best of everything, i really mean it.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

damn mann,
don't give up

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Thank you devonin that was a long time coming actually to change my stuff. Dossar about the testing for the substance, i believe i have heard that recently the military is developing a 'spice' drug test, as well as marines. I feel bad for marines on synthetic drugs as well because you're not allowed to do drugs at all, zero tolerance policy, left to face your addiction without telling a soul or you're no longer employed.
Thank you as well for your kind words mollocephalus. I did not even consider quitting this drug 6 months ago, so it definitely was my decision to finally fight this. Little update, breathing has been really shallow all day, with weird pressures in my head and in my ears. I can fill buckets with sweat from the palms of my hands alone, and i have showered 4 times because i'm just so uncomfortable right now.
Might go play sum wii with my gfs kid and try to stop thinking so much. I'm not going to the store.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

wow...
just wow...

congrats on the little one cooking, maybe it can be something you fixate on and drives you to succeed.
IDK what to say other than I'm rooting for you!

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

There's been a test for k2 since '10. my entire squadron in Biloxi had to take it. Only 5 people were caught, surprisingly


Also it sounds like u have the flu

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Something to consider taking is a nootropic.

The reason I bring that up is because in times like this, it's helped me stay attached, less depersonalized. It's a neuroprotective supplement that improves memory/cognition and whatnot.

While on noopept (there's a bunch of different kinds of nootropics but all of them are pretty similar in that they are neuroprotective and can help memory impairment and keeping your brain stabilized) sometimes I did not even feel high, while trying to smoke on it. That tells me it might be something that could help normalize you and probably help getting you to feel more driven. Mental heirarchy is a big thing that can be a hurtful impairment, it's also helped me push away thoughts that should GO away when asked to (compulsions, emotional snowballing triggers, etc).

My 2c~ it's helped me quite a lot. It's on ebay if you feel the need to check it out. PM me if you want advice for this sort of thing.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Well because the research chemicals are fluctuating so rapidly and being changed by the week now due to laws, average common drug tests can't really be produced if there isn't a constant to study. I'm sure they could produce a rapid one in the service though, sorry to hear about those 5 people. I don't have the flu, i actually wish i had the flu and no addiction at this moment. Spenner i will be seeing a specialist to get to the bottom of the ways i am feeling about my depersonalization.
As for not feeling high on it sometimes, yeah, that was me recently. I am very frightened that my life feels as though it's not my own anymore. Still clean for right now.... but i want to abuse

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

I don't want to be pessimistic but you will likely be put on either some sort of antipsychotic or SSRI/antidepressant. I hope it helps. Noopept worked to counteract the negative effects of the antidepressents I were once on, so again, give it a google search and see what you think. I only reiterate this because the brain needs to be in good shape for the big positive changes to happen.

Eat real healthy, this is a chance to really get to know yourself, and to be mindful of your compulsions. Single the feelings out, analyze them. Don't think alongside them, pull them over and question them. Be your own thought police, and see if you can redirect things overtime.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

I don't really show my face around here much anymore and that's just because I'm a real busy guy irl now. But i felt like i had to read this, and had to post.

It shocked me how close our stories were, even down to how the headshops sell it, and tell you "its not for human consumption" clearly knowing that as soon as they get in the car, they're gonna light up a bowl.

I'd go as far as saying that this is less of an "incense" and more of a chemical that you smoke. I've witnessed a friend of mine get into a damn near fatal car accident high on this stuff. What really shocked me is that the brand names used in Smitty's town are the same ones being sold here. I havent smoked this stuff in a while, and am quite glad that smitty linked me this thread over skype because this was something i definitely needed to read.

Ive witnessed the shop owners own son sell it under the table to customers, and the kid cannot be 1 day over 14. Its actually sick now that i think about it.


As far as rehabilitation goes Smitty, its gonna be tough, as it is with all drugs, right? Just know that here is your home, you have great friends here, and you are someone that has always been respected by the many. Not only because you're actually good at this game, but because you're a real person, with real problems people can relate to. You will overcome this dude, i'm sure.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

don't waste your money

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

damn this is a pretty big deal better get better for the sake of your future baby

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Hey man thanks for posting it's been a while. The thought of "not for human consumption" is running through my head like a madman right now. I'm still so turned off to the idea of selling this product even though i just bought it for 9+ months. To think that my friend Sal was purchasing this product fresh out of prison as a startup and money laundering company also sickens me.
five years of incarceration is obviously not enough to stop some drug lords from selling this product. Two daughters and a loving wife, not even enough to stop you.

http://www.wvec.com/news/York-County...233029741.html

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Lol

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

"The federal indictment accuses Lopiccolo and the other defendants of distributing synthetic marijuana, bath salts, cocaine, crack cocaine, marijuana, methamphetamine and hallucinogenic mushrooms."

I think i need to mention once more that me and sarah walked or drove 1-2 minutes to this store every day for 6 weeks just not knowing. Knowledge is power. I must keep telling myself that.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Okay I'm gonna need a more specific reason than this (also because: it's like $15 for a 5g bag of this supplement which has doses at 15mg).

Nootropics don't work well for everyone. A lot of people see no benefit because it's not doing anything that their brain needs. Higher memory thresholds, capacity for organizing information, is sometimes just ingrained in people, and taking noopept will not be as noticeable in it's effect. For a lot of people who have problems with memory and organizing their thoughts, it's a noticeable difference, especially when taken under the tongue. It's been a big help to me.

But before I elaborate aimlessly I do wonder why you think it's a waste of money particularly. It's been an aid for my bipolar disorder + depersonalization + attention span, and all around stabilizing thing to take. When I was taking mirtazapine, which made my brain feel like vanilla pudding, it helped with functioning while it was in my system.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Doing a literature search on nootropics, there isn't any evidence for their benefit for the things you describe. In fact, most of the research looked for benefits in the context of Alzheimers. These were mid '90s and '00s studies that didn't show any significant benefit.

For bipolar, depersonalization and attention span, there already are quite effective meds available treat those things.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Hello just an update. Haven't eaten so well today and i don't think i will for a while. at this point in time i just wish an instant solution was available to everything i am feeling right now. I feel like if i didn't have overwhelming support coming out of everythings butthole i would give up.... why does this have to happen to me

And i feel like i had a weird shaking episode in the shower earlier maybe some sort of seizure or a panic attack because my throat just wont swallow and it feels like its tightening. Hard to gather thoughts. I want to abuse but i won't because the willpower is too strong.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

You don't think that memory is related at all though? From a self observational standpoint, a lot of my bipolar triggers have to do with not noticing or not paying attention to what my thoughts are manifesting in, or having trains of thought break off like ice would from an arctic shore. Once a mood swing has begun, I can't remember or think about anything that ISN'T isolated in the state of the mood.

While on noopept, once a mood swing begins, I still have a threshold for grounding myself. A similar experience happens with depersonalization, which is typically an all-consuming part of my mood swings that persists. Call it placebo or what you like, but there is a difference where faith is not a factor in perpetuating the therapeutic benefits.

http://examine.com/supplements/Noopept/

There's a lot of study done on mice, and yes it's just mice, but it's already shown promise with alzheimers patients with mechanisms consistent with that in the animal models, it's not out of the ballpark to guess that some of the other benefits of the drug are also taking effect.

A lot of anecdotal reports, not empirical evidence, and it's unfortunate that more research hasn't been done as of yet. But I feel like there's potential, they undeniably have a neurological benefit. Whether or not that is shown in the character of a person is another deal. But I stand by saying you have nothing to lose by trying it, it's cheap and at LEAST it's got laboratory study to back up it's action unlike alternative medicines lol.

In short, I think (<-- yes, anecdotal) memory plays a role in the disorders I've addressed it to be beneficial for, maybe indirectly, maybe more directly. The mind during the disorder experiences memory impairment that prolongs a lot of the negative symptoms/makes them seem so prolonged. If your memory is impaired, your mental organization may be poor, you may be cycling yourself deeper without knowing it.

I would try to push away the idea of a seizure from your mind because it's just going to create more anxiety for you. It's very likely a symptom of anxiety, as with everything you're feeling in general. It's hard to adapt to how your body feels in a withdrawl, perhaps just because you become so used to thinking in a high frame of mind that now there's too much on your plate (and you're not hungry).

If I were a doctor you would be on mirtazapine or something of the sort until your symptoms of anxiety go away, it would be good to use for now because it's also an appetite stimulant. If nothing feels appetizing, try your best to picture your food as nutrition to bandage your body with (and don't automatically retort with "well I feel like shit, I kind of want to"-- you don't), eat fruit and veggies, things that won't sit in your stomach and feel heavy, things you don't necessarily need to be hungry to eat, but are healthy at this point.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

And these issues stemmed from you consuming herbal incense / k2 spenner? Or have you always had bipolarity. I know that about 5 months after i began this addiction my mood began to fluctuate without control and it still does. I will be laughing wildly one minute and having a mental breakdown the next, and screaming and yelling following suit.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

They didn't stem from using K2 although I've had synthetic cannabinoids a few times (depersonalization is always visited in varying levels of intensity when using them). I've had the issues ever since highschool and have been struggling with dealing with them and finding ways to numb or distract things too. Smoking a lot of weed at first was great but it soon became both an antidote and a poison. I thought that it helped episodes of depersonalization but it actually just consumed me deeper and made the episodes feel more meditative and escapist.

I never really had a problem with an addiction to it that lasted (I would never physically give into MOST compulsions, and time and time again when I did, I would regret it either immediately or after), but perceived psychological dependence is huge. Your mind puts words in it's own mouth. Even if it doesn't, it feels like you should reach out to use it for a reason that you will come up with. At least with me, it manifested in a lot of irrationalities, any psychological compulsion. I had a perception of what the drug was, and the perception was false.

With that feeling that I NEED something to fill a mental gap, it would start the cycle of moods spinning around like crazy. Not having anything to vent the feeling towards gets me wanting to abuse something, and drawing with music helps expel the feeling well. Everyone's got a thing for that.

Anyhow as you might be able to tell my attention span is short still lol. Honestly that's a huge part of depressive mood swings, my attention span is so short, that I don't even have a capacity to create thoughts that can convince me that there's anything other than the negative moods. I don't know if you can relate to any of this but I figured I'd vent about it all the same 8-)

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

story time

I went through a period like there where I smoked spice non-stop, it was pretty okay for a while until I started smoking copious amounts, trying to catch that first high, etc. One night I smoked way too much, and fell into a kind of dissociative paranoia. It freaked me the fuck out, but I slept it off. Next night, I thought, "eh that was a one time thing." So I lit up, and about 30 minutes later I was on the phone with 911, literally on the verge of tears. It was terrible, it wasn't fun. But I did it again the next night. It was then that I simply threw my piece away, and never touched the stuff.

It was crazy hard to stay away from the stuff after that. I was always craving it; lasted about a month before the cravings started to really go away. I guess you could also say I had an "afterglow" effect as well, as I didn't feel right in the head for a few months after that.

On a lighter note, I stepped Vortex and about 75% of Robotomy high on spice lmfao.

I know what it's like man, stay strong. Keep yourself occupied, and try as hard as you can to not think about it.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Well. Good luck, guy. My roommate that used to be a friend of mine is now stuck taking antipsychotics for the rest of his life because he smoked way too much of the stuff, and is nowhere near the same person. Hope you can make it through without having to deal with that, it's sad knowing how someone used to be and seeing how much drugs have fucked them up.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

It's really weird to hear all these stories about y'all having issues with this stuff when I'd never heard of it before this thread.

So, uh, yay for exposure, at least? It feels kind of strange to cheer anything in this thread besides everyone's resolve to get past using the stuff.

--Guido

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Hey smitty, everyone told you to be occupied with different things, but in your condition some activities could be frustrating and/or increase your anxiety. Why don't you try doing some slow task dealing with something relaxing? Something like tending to plants or making a little garden corner, or maybe little bricolage works which aren't too intricate - drawing and painting might also help. Experiment with things you feel can create a status of peace around you, and do it with the most relaxed mindset you can afford, meaning you don't look for results, you look for cleansing through the activity itself. Many cheers and get better!

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

About a week ago i had an episode like that too. I took a giant gravity bong blast and stood up and my heart started to run it's own marathon race so i held the phone in my hand with my thumb on the 9 button just waiting to feel the 'feeling' where it's time to call. I was smoking 5 grams a night more or less. So i guess ingesting copious amounts of it is really what sets things off on the bad path.

Good morning everyone i am feeling .. how to say.. idk. Really disconnected. I don't enjoy food i just want to eat a fucking sandwich and actually LIKE IT. So shakey this morning it has to be withdrawals i want to smoke but i can't or it's back to square one. I am beyond agitated at this situation. and thousands of people here are also feeling this way. It's sad to know that in the few days i have not gone to high tyde, that about 700+ people have. This has to stop eventually.. or more people will keep dropping left and right.
I'm going to go run somewhere idk keeping occupied isn't working. I am mad

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Can you move somewhere for the time being?

Twice now you've had episodes in your shower, sounds like you're waking up in the same place and wanting a hit. If you go someplace where you've never had a hit before it should make the cravings easier. Like, I can't work at home very well, because home is where I don't work. Get me out of the house and suddenly it's like 'oh yeah, I can write no problem' or 'hey, this project isn't so bad afterall'.
I know my example is weaksauce compared to what you're going through, but the principles are exactly the same. Seriously consider going to visit a relative, maybe stay at your woman's house next door. Just to sleep somewhere and wake up surrounded by a place where you have never used this or other drugs before and it should help the cravings.

You also should really find something to occupy your time, something that's scheduled, something that can become another habit to take the place of the drugs. I suppose it's best if you find something you enjoy, but that's probably not going to really happen in your state of mind, so just find something to DO. It's easier to tell yourself to do something than to not do something. Your post tomorrow should be about what you did today and what you plan to do that day.


Unfortunately, things like spice, whose formulae change just as soon as the previous concoction is banned, can always stay one step ahead of the process needed to ban illegal substances.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

There will always be another "spice", the can never ban all the cannabinoids, there's so many of them, and SO many yet undiscovered.
Not all of them are bad, some actually would help Smitty very much in this case like cannabidiol and JWH-133.

idk dude the cannabinoid system is weird. Sometimes I'll have a nice time, but just last week my heartrate was 180bpm after smoking, it's just a hit or miss. You have to not associate the drug like you would a substance like alcohol I guess. It's a full on dissociative lol. Don't smoke it because you do not want to dissociate, be out of control of your mind and have your body feel like it's in dire need of help.

Drink sleepytime tea, yogi kava tea, Idunno anything to aid a relaxation excersize. Practice meditating, go do stuff. Sitting back in the place you always used to smoke K2, not smoking K2, is making things hard.

Find some sort of outlet. I can tell by the tone of your posts here-- you are posting mostly in the depths of depressive phases in your life and that's not the whole you. Anything you can do that requires little effort, that you can just free-flow and do like art; it just tends to remind the brain that there's something else than the depressive thoughts. I don't feel like I'm drawing when I do draw in a deep mood swing, which triggers me to start questioning whether or not I'm really being rational in my thoughts (I'm not, but I can never tell). After that, things get better. You start chipping away at the snowball that's been rolling and soon it's flattened out. Eventually you can learn to be vigilant to the point of which you can feel the first sign of a snowball effect happening, emotionally, and you can stop it.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Hey, been reading about whats happened to you. I have to say I feel sorry that these things happened to you. Will be praying. Also, not sure if it's possible or how well it would work, but try and be around some one who can help make decisions for you when you can't, like being around some person you know for most of your days. (Just thinking it might help keep things safer and more stable)

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

I am actually considering moving in next door already she doesn't seem to ever mind. I have cleaned up my old smoke station and torn down / thrown away all remnants of any spice related paraphernalia. Other than feeling disconnected all day my heart has been palpitating it feels like fluttering beats. And my wrists and arms hurt around my veins like theyre being constricted. Lady is going to help me make a good schedule for the time being until i go back to work. Canon's machines are undergoing maintenance and upgrades so we have all been kind of pissed off. I would be able to kick this much easier not being able to smoke for 12 hours while at work. I haven't smoked yet though so i suppose it doesn't matter where i'm at. The owner of high tyde agreed to have a talk with me this weekend about things and "the way it has to be for a while", sickening. I'm going to see if i can record something. Spenner i actually do drink sleepytime on a regular basis it's amazing. I got some new tattoos recently maybe i could get one everytime the craving comes on strong for herbal incense

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

yo sleepytime tea and gin is one of the best things ever

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Good morning. Just got back from the dentist my teeth are also wrecked from herbal incense. Gives a 'meth-mouth' of sorts regardless of brushing habits. I had known my teeth were getting bad but 21 cavities, i need a root canal and a crown, and i'm a freak of nature and i have an extra wisdom tooth growing somehow.
I slept next door last night and went to bed rather early but i woke up at 4 am kicking and yelling and i puked on the bathroom floor. I woke up at like 7:30 to get dude on the bus and ate a piece of bread and an olive before i went to dentist. I feel like things are really getting a bit strange. This still feels like i'm fighting against it... because i want to smoke the feeling is still there and i hate that it's going to be there for a long time.
Anyway, productivity, ive been cleaning more than ever. The smallest dirty areas and messes bother me now. Not sure if it's a good or bad thing. Ive been on the internet doing a lot of research still on spice addiction and therapy.
I have learned that withdrawal from herbal incense is always going to be uncomfortable but it's not life threatening, but it should be medically supervised.. a little concern there as i'm still not in a facility. I learned that physical stabilization occurs months after initial spice detox and i should most likely address sleep problems and mood disorders (which i do have) with my doctor to best treat them. And the final stage of spice addiction treatment is to treat the mind. Psychological impulses drive drug use and psychotherapy will aim to understand why i use / used spice and that psychotherapy may be the most important aspect of any addiction.

So i'll take into consideration

1. The withdrawal phase
2. Physical stabilization
3. Psychological treatment

And a great video on synthetic addiction i have watched


Very concerning

"Dr. Schermerhorn details how drugs, especially Spice/K2 affect the human brain, especially the neurotransmitters. An imbalance of neurotransmitters can create a problem. For example, too much dopamine causes schizophrenia while Parkinson's is a lack of dopamine. When you make a designer drug, like K2/Spice, you mess with the neurotransmitters and create a dangerous balance. It creates a iatrogenic delirium. Delirium is brain failure that can make a person die."

"K2/Spice is a really, really dangerous drug. It is best described as crystal meth and LSD combined and ten times stronger."

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Glad to see you going in the right direction and that your at least still alive D: but I think you know that from pro chat already... have you considered exercise a way to cope with stress some what yet?

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Withdrawal isn't easy, but (as I said on Skype) it's not just a phase but it's an everyday struggle. Each day, people have the right to choose whether to have an optimistic view on life or a pessimistic view. Each day, people have the right to choose to work in order to put food on the table or a roof over their heads or to think "meh, I'll do it tomorrow" with the assumption that tomorrow will be an ordinary day. Even for those who have quit a specific addiction (which can apply to drugs, sex, food, etc.) the cravings can still come up no matter how long one has gone cold turkey. It's a daily struggle.

Thanks for keeping us updated. As I said before, hang in there and stay strong.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Smitty I'd also like to thank you for raising awareness about these drugs as well as giving information and personal experience.

You're maintaining living space and keeping yourself occupied trying to find solutions to problems.

I would say this is going beyond just yourself and I appreciate your honesty and willpower to fight against this addiction.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

I read your story and I have to say, I shed some tears because I would never want to go through something like that. :( I'm really glad you're taking the proper steps for recovery. The road to it won't be easy, but we'll be supporting you all the way. :)

Good luck, and be strong. <3

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Keep it up, I'll keep reading it.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

We talked about this. Since the chemists are always a step ahead of the police changing the formulas slightly to make the drugs stay legal, an investigation needs to be put place to find these goddamn manufacturing places.

I'd imagine there would be plenty of documents about the plans the chemists had in how the product's chemical composition would be changed frequently every time a state tried defining what's not legal.

Also, listing the manufacturer should be a REQUIREMENT. Has no investigation been done on finding the places this product is manufactured? The investigators would be in for quite a surprise at what they would find if they actually found these places.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

It's hard because chemical companies can make these chemical ingredients legitimately with no issues (and rightfully so, there's a lot of research potential for them). But the people who buy the chemicals (who may or may not be legitimate), and then passes them down the line to the people who put chemical + plant material together. THOSE are the bad guys. The chemicals are going to exist no matter what, and they will always be able to get away with it. It's ceasing the distribution, making sure they don't go anywhere.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

You mention that chemical companies can make those ingredients legitimately with no issues, and there can be perfectly good reason to make them for research etc.

But the problem here is that no manufacturers are listed. If no manufacturers are listed that gives me the impression that it's shady as fuck. If the drug was legitimate, the manufacturer would be listed there without any issue.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Dossar i will continue to raise awareness. I have been to multiple narcotics meetings each night around my area informing teens and parents about k2 and spice. Let me go ahead and explain the herbal incense trade from the man himself Salvatore lopiccolo. It's difficult to understand.
When Sal / bonsai first started to sell k2 and spice they IMMEDIATELY drove infinite traffic to their store in our area which was a fucking shock. The moment a smoke shop gets more infested with business than a WAWA is when you know to launch an investigation. My old highschool buddy matt kidd-hux started working there and i caught on that something was fishy cause i always knew that piece of shit to do shady loser drugs and sell them to people. Then his GF started working there at the spice counter and i always knew her to be the best person on earth. What is that telling you? yeah, somethings up. I started questioning Sal and megan everytime i purchased a bag asking them where the product comes from and whats in it and all they ever had to say was 'we dont know but when we smoke it, it makes us fucking trip so youll be happy alright?' or something along those lines. Bonsai did their business sketchy. High tyde calls the 'flavors' scents, where as bonsai called the scents 'flavors', giving away that its smoke-able. I eventually talked to sal outside of bonsai when i bought 100 bags of "Neutronium" off of him at a wholesale price during one of the sweeps / bans, and found out a lot. He was purchasing all of his product from the local "lazy dayz hookah lounge" store for pennies on the dollar, and i found that they were getting their product from brazil in a laboratory that did 'research' and was changing their compounds daily, where the trail went cold. I am sure the original chemicals came from research labs in china. Regardless, All of these shops are just money laundering businesses to hide a much bigger picture. If you can locate and read salvatore's indictment you would be shocked at what they recovered out of his store. So it goes as follows. Open shop --> find chemicals and people who sell them --> purchase at a business price --> bring to your business --> re-sale to idiots for profits

The laws cant study a constant for long enough to pinpoint troubles, This will never get easy.


I found the indictment.

http://wtkr.com/2013/11/21/owner-of-...and-narcotics/
and
http://localtvwtkr.files.wordpress.c...indictment.pdf

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

I'm just saying the problem is within the scope of the K2 product itself, not with the active chemicals.

Once the active chemicals have been sold to somebody else, that's their deal. Once I buy flour and use it as an ingredient in bread, I don't need to list who's flour it is.

If we WERE to do so, and there was a problem with the flour in the bread, we could as consumours rule out who is to seek out. Similarly with the k2 packaging companies. They'll know, and any investigation into their shipping/receiving logbook would be enough to figure that out. But it still does not mean that the chemical companies are at fault here. It's improper usage of them. Imposing shipping restrictions at the chemical place, yeah that will mean there's no K2 directly. But they have no way to discern "Joe Blank" from "Boe Jank" when they receive an order of what might be legal active compounds that they swear are for research purposes. Until the chemicals are scheduled, there's nothing that can really be done on a grandeur scheme.

So I guess that's just it, raise awareness, have a social perception that reduces the market/demand and hopefully these products start to go away. Other than that: simply make a rule saying you can't sell herbal incense products that contain synthetic cannabinoids : |

Also as reckless as it sounds, legalizing cannabis is going to at least VERY much dilute the market for synthetic versions that are becoming to be known for what they really are. Better yet, if they legalize strains with high CBD levels and make it publically aware ("SYNTHETIC SHIT HAS FUCKED UP YOUR BRAIN, SMOKE THIS AND GET BETTER") that it is more effective for their weed of k2 induced anxiety or any other psychological problems.

Primarily this is the case. Off the top of my head I can name two sites notorious for selling in both bulk and smaller levels of purchase, and most of the substances they sell are illegal here. Yet, they will sell it to you discretely and it will be all on you as far as how to make it seem legitimate (paying a research company to import it for you is a dodge for this).

Also I read this (Section 32) which outlines why the man was charged with the things listed in COUNT ONE, that shit is strict as fuck. They should have no problems taking them down if they put the effort into connecting the dots.

TL;DR: People need to not mindlessly consume ANYTHING. Research ANY new product you are interested in trying that has mind altering effects. Once you think you've done enough research, read dozens of reports on it. Once you've done that, if you aren't sure what you're getting into, talk to people who have done it lots, and get the good/bad. BUT TO AVOID ALL THAT SHIT get studying some basic neuroscience and read the wiki pages and you'll be able to see for yourself what a lot of these things do without having to read extensively on anecdotal reports.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

I hate that though. "simply make a rule saying you can't sell herbal incense products that contain synthetic cannabinoids." Because you know the depth of that. It's impossible. The problem still lies in impossibility.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

At the bottom line, yes. Any extra footsteps for them to take to get to the point to where they are selling these things, they will likely still likely take.

But that doesn't mean that someone undercover could waltz in, buy a pack, take it to a laboratory, show the results to a judge, and have them taken away immediately. A pain in the ass for the sellers and for police, but it's the only thing I can foresee happening that isn't an awareness campaign.

So ye, making people aware. And not scare tactics either. If I were to go about it, I would just be straight with how these things actually work. You've been doing research into why these substances can be damaging to the physical brain, people need to have that on their mind and not just the image of a "bad trip" (Reefer Madness type example lol).

It's hard for the average person who just "wants to get high" to understand what they're getting into. That's why you see people smoking salvia thinking it will be like getting stoned. Ohboy.

I understand the good intentions by labelling this drug as something just as potentially harmful, but saying that it's a really strong dirty candyflip is not the case, and a false comparison. You're better off comparing it to PCP for it's dissociative effects, not something ridiculous like a full body stimulant x10, and a 10 strip of acid. Delirious, dissociative effects like you might get on a bad salvia trip, but without the intense hallucinogenic effects, is closer still. Sorry if it sounds like I'm asserting some sort of authority here, I'm not, I just don't want you to go around talking to people as if it were like meth + acid. That's more in the realm of bath salt related designer drugs.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

I should have mentioned that Salvatore and his crew are all out of imprisonment and that he plans to open up another spice shop in the coming months when the jwh laws settle. It's pure proof that it's not going to stop. About the undercover purchasing, they made about 9 undercover purchases from bonsai and all were illegal compounds from a wide array of synthetic drugs including bath salts. He wasn't so good at hiding chems, sal already did a 5 yr stint in prison for selling cocaine, he was trying to be a drug dealer legit this time so he could get his jimmies off, but he got caught up in chemical warfare. I know that he gets a feel from giving this product to people, it's most likely the same feeling he got from selling white.

They can keep making undercover buys and trying and trying but this will boil down to awareness forever until it stops. The average person who wants to get high looks like an amazing person when i see those individuals at 'high tyde' you can tell theyve never abused anything in their life and theyre afraid of weed. Everything in me screams to just tell them to go away and never come back and that they don't know what theyre getting themselves into

Oh, assert authority or not, This is like meth and lsd combined times ten and if i must, ill say times twenty. I have gotten the same up and down effects from the 2 times i did bath salts compared to the thousands of uses of k2 and spice.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

I guess they could also make it a legal requirement at LEAST to have the same awareness packaging as cigarettes must have now. Not with fearful images of a damaged body, but telling people:

"This is a dissociative synthetic drug, that could potentially replicate the effects of psychosis. Psychotic effects may involve delirious thoughts and panic attacks, heavily dissociated."

Though no matter what you're right that it's an impossibility. There will always be "the drug" people who want to get high, get high off of. The set out to do it, they will find something. There's countless options, and a lot of them are easy to get. The war on drugs is futile, but I guess you can't spell awareness without war squeezed in.

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

If people keep dying in my 50 mile radius that will happen without a doubt, or all product will have a special law put into effect or daily cop checks to make sure they arent selling it. We already have armed guards at every spice shop, and cops that look for people swerving into the spice shops. Most stay open 24 hours a day so people strung out from a 4 1/2 day meth binge can come drive into a shop to buy some. Do you think they are adept for operating a motor vehicle? No. I'm not going to stop this war. I almost jumped in the car and drove to high tyde but i sat down in this chair and started typing. This thread is very important right now to me

Re: My depersonalization over the last year
 

Stay strong mate. You've obviously got a lot of people here and irl that truly care and want to help/see you make it out of this in one piece.

I'm just glad that over here that sort of thing is frowned at. Most people that I've ever heard of ordering this shit online and smoking it have pretty much hated it and gone right back to smoking dope.