Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

Don't you think it depends on what they say? Why do we have a word for -inciting- violence if there's no difference between it and any other speech that happens to have the consequence of a listener deciding to do violence based on those words?

In order to incite, I'd argue you have to have intent. In the definitions for incitement you have words like 'encourage' 'urge' and 'persuade' not just "say anything regardless of content and have somebody hearing it decide to do violence.

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

Unless what someone says actually affects the security of other people (i.e. a threat), then no not really.

I personally think the words are still deplorable, but I wouldn't want them to be illegal.

I've been thinking about some hypotheticals about who should receive blame for a violent act, and I still wouldn't blame someone who is encouraging, urging, or persuading unless they were assisting with the violent act.

In any case, I don't think this is applicable to Alex Jones anyway


ok that clip made me laugh

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

I don't think I agree with this on any level

Would you say that they are guiltless in that kind of scenario?

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

In a legal sense, yes. I'd think they're gross but I wouldn't think they deserved punishment.

edit: i dont think i was being clear so

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

It's hard for me to say if this is applicable to Alex Jones, but it is definitely applicable to Milo Yiannopodop (who is only relevant in this thread because of OP) and I say yes, that kind of speech (doxxing a trans woman and inciting violence against her for "lulz") should NOT be protected.

I'm Asian, if someone wants to say "all y'all Asians smell bad" or "lol Asians got teh small cocks" I could give less of a fuck, but when someone says "MURDER ALL ORIENTALS!" then I say de-platform, de-platform, de-platform.

Actually I just remembered the bullshit Jones pulled regarding Sandy Hook, so yeah, de-platform. I don't even blame him for the Pizzagate shooting, but I certainly have to blame him for inciting the harassment and threatening of grieving parents what the fuck

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

So do you believe it is impossible for somebody, using words, to convince another person to commit a violent act that they wouldn't have committed without hearing those words? Are all people who are incited to commit violence 100% absolutely -already going to be violent- no matter what anybody said?

Because if it possible for somebody, using words, to incite another person to violence who wouldn't have committed that violence without the words, I don't understand how you can argue that the person who said those words bears no responsibility for the violence that results. Especially when their -goal- in saying the words is to -incite violence-

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

Ohhhhhh I have no opinion then oops

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

I'm never gonna get why Alfred likes Milo so much, but also yeah dont really care or know enough to comment on that stuff. That shit sounds bad, though.

I see langauge like that as an actual threat, so I agree too. That's a bit of an extreme case though, yeah?

So this is what I got from the CBS article about the lawsuit the families filed against him

"The lawsuits, filed late Monday, allege that Jones' insistence that the shooting was staged led others to make death threats against the victims' families."

Yeah, it's disgusting to do what Jones did, but all he did was be a conspiracy theorist. We should be blaming the people who issued the death threats. I don't get how it follows to issue death threats based on the information they received from Infowars. He didn't say to kill the families.

Yeah, it's possible. But the person commiting the violent act is cognizant of the law. They shouldn't be stupid and do the wrong thing.

I wouldn't go that far.

I think I already responded to this in the first thing I quoted from you

edit: i just realized im contradicting myself my brain's pooping

There's a way that inciting violence is actually bad and illegal (see: what I said to rayword). I just think there's a difference between calling someone a bunch of bad words and actually having something to do with their death (e.g. by saying that this person needs to die and asking to kill the person)

So inciting violence is actually bad and it was wrong for me to say it wasn't. It doesn't always make someone deserving of blame, though.

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

my problem is more that specifically a corporation has the power to decide who can talk or not

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

Which corporation is this that has the power to decide whether you can talk?

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

Also the name of the thread

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

How does PayPal prevent him from talking?

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

that *is* what we are talking about right?
to stop alex jones from talking?
and we got there from that post?
I'm confused

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

yeah it was what we were talking about

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

i think devonin means theyre only stopping him from receiving money via paypal and not literally stopping him from talking. though if he can't get money and pay his bills he can't really run a network. so idk what he means. well, unless he gets a real job and uses those funds to continue infowars as a passion project. loL!

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

I mean the claim that he is being censored or stopped from saying whatever he wants by not being able to get money from people via a private service is absurd.

I don't get any money via paypal at all, and I can say all the same things he does.

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

arch0wl's just been watching too many right-wing conspiracy theory vids lately

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

Right but it's not just PayPal guys

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

yeah its only every major electronic/internet payment handler and the credit card companies used to make the majority of these electronic/internet payments but you can still write alex jones a western union money order or stuff a 20$ in an envelope and hope it makes its way to him

you see, taking away the money he uses to run his platform isn't literally sewing his mouth shut (even tho the next step is likely not allowing him to purchase a domain or server to run his site on regardless of who funds it but heyyyyy da frogman is done for guys!)

Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC
 

oh no he won't be able to scam people by selling fake supplements as easily without all these private companies infrastructures supporting him T_T guess he'll just have to use his genius brain to figure out a new way to scam