Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Ive had countless sm files rejected and the first thing I'd do is ask for help. Bitching about it wouldn't have won me any points with the judges. Same applies here, we can't all conform to everyones ways of thinking or judging.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Q & A time.

Feel free to ask anyone who reviewed the file for more details. (if you find me on msn, you can ask)

It's very possible that you may end up changing something for the worse, but more likely, it's the issue of contradicting opinions which I've talked about several times before. Seeing how you've made several attempts at the file already, I think it was the right thing to do to PM me. I'll look at the file later and discuss it with you.

Also, read Silvuh's follow-up post on the sync. I think that may have cleared some confusion.

I remember I had to resubmit my Happy Rainbow file 5 times to Tass before it got accepted, and even then, there were disagreements amongst the judges. The issues were a ping-pong of opposing opinions, just like your case. I just was persistent.

Some issues aren't evident the first few times someone plays a file, and again some issues don't appear to surface until changes to the file have been made. This actually applies with a lot of things in life - from new software updates (to fix bugs that weren't initially evident) to new discoveries that were overlooked the first time.

Also, not everyone may spot the same problem or view certain areas as problematic.

Maybe you're just mixing things up, but the limit on the number of files one can send is for regular submissions. If you somehow had 8 resubmissions, you could send them all in if you wish. Temporally, however, resubmissions themselves only last for the subsequent batch.

I at least try to make sure that the judge line-up is suitable...which is why some didn't make it in.

I personally think this should be good enough, but I think the bar is raised to 17/20 simply because of the influx of files we receive in each batch. I still don't consider this a permanent line of acceptance - I'm pretty sure there can be reasons to change it depending on how a batch fares.
Still, 16/20 is currently considered for voting, so there's still a chance such a file may be accepted.

I mentioned this in a previous post, but yes, this is still true unfortunately. We tried to fix the problem when it was suggested that a 5/5/5/1 file can have the "1" score dropped if reasons aren't justified. But what if someone thinks that the file is pretty good, but only gives it a [+.] for whatever reason? Then it's goodbye for acceptance (4/5/5/1 for instance).

Hmm, you have to be careful with this, as you're pretty much suggesting that the judge who provided the lowest score does not know what he/she is talking about. And before you can make such an assumption, we'll have to look more closely at the file itself.

Well now that you've got your file accepted and you're happy about it, above quote suggests that you dislike the system simply on whether your file got in or not.

Appreciate your honesty. Your file will go through the voting system, and although I gave your passage D file a [+?], I'd be inclined to vote a yes on your file. It IS fun.

It's not an issue; a file doesn't have to have consistent opinions - nor should you expect this to happen all the time. Reviewing simfiles is verrry subjective, and you MUST expect this to happen sometimes. It has happened to me before. You cannot simply exclude the odd man out as a "nutcase" who doesn't know what he's talking about (I already said this) just because his rating stood out like a sore thumb.

That is true, but I did make a suggestion earlier that we'd (myself and jx) personally look at a highly disputed file if it appears that no progress has been made and the simfile artist wants to resolve it. I'm currently looking through ichlie's Glorious Morning file and seeing what all the rage is about.

You know, this is sort of how I felt when I had my easy files rejected*. Remember I asked you and others on how to make a good easy file? My inquiry was the result of what I thought was a misunderstanding of my intentions to make the file easy. Some judges give recognition to such possibilities, but not all the time, and you can't press them on for everything.

*in the end, one of my easy files, Ready to go, was changed to be slightly harder than intended - not what I exactly wanted, but it wasn't too bad. As I said in the past, if it appears that a file isn't turning out how you'd like after fixes, then don't force yourself to submit it. You don't have to. As who_cares (and kommisar) said:

Yep.

Read some of the responses I've already made above. The answer is no. Also, we're not elites. I honestly like to see myself as a normal person or at least someone who can relate to what others are saying, which is partially why I'm making responses right now to your issues.

In my defense, the technicality aspect of that song had nothing to do with stepping every sound, because yes, that would indeed be more of a mess. The main issue had to do with 32nds being 24ths or vice versa or other bursts being stepped in the wrong sync. For another example, look at the notes for my song Fly Away -mix del matador-. I made similar errors.

Ehh, I already posted the Sun and Stars notes on the batch review thread.

Yeah, jx officially accepts/rejects files into the game. I really only collect the judges' notes.

Actually, no, some people in this thread are graciously taking reviews the way they are and are doing their best to fix them. (Please don't view this as a way of "complying to people who are hush hush/shy about making complaints".) That's also not to say that I dislike receiving all the criticisms - please continue to let us know how to improve the judging system. Improvement is a continuous process.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Ilu bman

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I appreciate that, thank you. And yea, AJ offered to help with the sync so hopefully I'll get it right one of these days >.>

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

The sounds are not secondary or too quiet. They go to actual notes in the bms version just fyi

meanwhile, I halved the layering and completely toned down subconsciousness chart

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

About these files:

Sun and Stars - what's i love you's rating for that?

Passage D - our mistake, thanks for reporting. I'll send a pm to judges about it.

Senerade of Storms - forgot too add, it should be accepted too.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

No problem :] That raises one last question for me. If the file goes through the voting system, can I submit an edited version when it is in queue, or would you rather make a decision with the edited version?

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

His rating was a [+]

If your file gets in the queue, you can make small changes anytime you like (until the song's actually in the game). For overhauls, you probably should just submit the file again.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Fixed - I messed up there, don't take responsibility for that. I should have let the other judges know in a bit more obvious manner. I forgot that iironiic was going against w_c and the file ended up in the same group. Honest mistake. :p

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

stop assuming things.

connect was rejected TWICE because the judges thought it was boring

when i stepped infernoplex my file wasnt even looked at because"hi19's version is already queued and you probably couldnt do better than him"

when i submitted forsaken neon rebirths review was"my file is better rejected"

yes i do know how it feels and you want to know why you didnt know about it? because i didnt throw a bitch fit like every other god damn person that got dick slapped by the system

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Just work hard and get your files better. Everyone goes through the amateur phase. Just get better and keep working until your files are actually worth something. Be your own critic before you let others critique it.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

heres a suggestion for a system rehaul

throw out 1-5 and go with letter grades and a 1-10 system

just like grading the final grade would be based on the average of all 4 scores

9-10=A
7-8=B
5-6=C
3-4=D
1-2=F

A=accept
B=light accept
C=conditional accept
D=needs major fixes
F=reject

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I approve.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

This would be fine, as long as a file doesn't require something dumb like 9.25 average to get in.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I think the system overhaul is just unnecessary. The grading scale is fine, it's the judging split-up that might be a problem.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I think it's completely pointless to have some random symbol system with +s and +?s and +.s when it's perfectly reasonable to just use numbers

Also if you increase the scale the gray borderline file area will increase significantly imo

On another note I love reading drama

K back to lurkin'

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

not with the letter grades


you'd need an A-B for an accept so it wouldnt be based on the numbers

example of my system:

a file i submitted got 2-7-7-10

add the numbers(26) and then average it(6.5)

6.5 would be a C which would be a conditional. the 2 wouldnt totally ruin the chances of a file being accepted anymore

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

and now it's just the waiting game :D Can't wait to see my song in the game. Being an up and coming R1 music producer lol

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

That's probably true.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

JX/bmah -- if you're relying on votes for files that are borderline, you probably won't be receiving them from Kayla.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Not if the results aren't so weird again. Having one super low grade from a judge while you have other consistent 4s/5s shouldn't **** up your chances.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

People are getting a little too upset about the ratings. If a judge has a ton to say about your file and they gave you a low rating when the other judges gave you high ones, you probably should be getting upset at the higher ratings for not noticing mistakes and effectively getting your hopes up.

Those with consistent ratings throughout all judges obviously have fixes that need to be made.

If there's an issue with the judge opinion that results in a sudden drop in scores, and doesn't seem legitimate, present a case in the thread so that one of the head judges can see it. I really don't understand what the huge issue is.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

The only issue is that their files got rejected

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

That's the point of having several judges. It's not that that one judge killed your chances. It's rather those other judges saved your simfile from being abysmal to being kinda feasible with some fixes.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Right, because all low ratings are because the judge found a lot of problems...
"file needs way more variation in steps than what you have. [-]"
"[-] Uh very well made file, but why does it cut off so suddenly?"
"[?] not really worth the v2 IMO"

EDIT: To clarify, I'm not saying these reviews are necessarily badly done, just that not all low ratings are the result of a lot of problems with the file. Nobody in their right mind is going to appeal a low rating when there are a ton of reasonable complaints to go along with it.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Just ask a judge if you have any specific questions. I've already addressed ichlie's case successfully.

@Halo: of course, you know your priorities, so don't worry about votes

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Well, I had sent my votes before the hospital. I was just talking for her. :)

(Unless for some reason, she wants to do them while at the hospital after labor is finished, she actually is on her laptop right now, lol)

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

This one made me lol just because the V1 for that file was like a lv 4 and the V2 submitted was like a 9.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I'll get to em but not gonna do it 10cm dilated XD (which i am right now >.>)

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

So uhhh yea. Everybody chill'd out yet?

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Nobody is ever chilled out on FFR; where have you been, bro?

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I guess thats a good way to look at it, but seeing as the majority of judges rated the same (4), chances were statistically that I had a 75% chance i was bound to get a light accept anyways with one judge. But its not that i'm proposing for one judge. I just find it kinda cruddy one poor score out of a group of accepts can ruin your chances, but i guess that situation is applicable in many places.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Why not just fix your file tho

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

My metro file originally got 11

I made fixes and even looked around the file - I noticed some parts myself that could've been made better that the judges didn't mention, especially the hard reject
5/5/1/5

Then sent again

Making changes to a file doesn't make you immune to hard rejects for something like what qqwref stated.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I plan to, but thats not the point, if people are still getting worse scores after fixing what the judges point out to be flawed, that gives even a lesser incentive to resubmit/submit. Plus the file got a 4, so it's not terrible, but I wanna know if there is a somewhat established 1-5 criteria since I don't exactly know what differentiates a 1 file from a 4 file seeing as i got both ratings.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

We suspect she may be retarded.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Tru ffr dedication: thinking of judging while preparing for labor lmao

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I just had a rage spasm over A Battle for the Sky.

I won't be available today or tomorrow, so I'll get back to file stuff in a few days.

I'm going to compare as many version of this file as I have and all the comments ask everyone about them specifically and try to come up with some kind of compromise between everything ... then send multiple versions, all to anyone who would like to look at my file again, take those comments and finally figure out how this track should best be stepped.
And then I'll send it in whenever the batch opens again (because it's ineligible for resubmission) and watch as it gets rejected again. [Ha ha ha, these are my sarcasm brackets.]


The unfixing epidemic either means: 1) judges should be more specific or, 2) simartists need to ask for more specifics, which means that judges weren't clear in the first place anyway, or 3) some other option so I'm not making a false dichotomy.


Unfixing: when listening to the judge's comments and making corrections results in an even lower score. This is what I'm calling it until someone else comes up with a better word.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

call it subjectivity. There is such a thing as a file that's genrally liked by most people

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Just keep resubmitting and eventually it will get in because no one will want to see you resubmit it again(see metro and devour)

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Lol I was actually hangin out in PC during a lot of my labor. But she's finally here ^_^

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Congrats!

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I'm currently in the process of stepping 2 easy files. Both songs I also made.

Wish me luck

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Good Luck

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Congrats Kayla. I'll drink one to the baby's health

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

i shall join kommi

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Congrats Kayla and AJ! Your baby get oni yet? :)

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

+1

Best wishes to all 3 of you. :)

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Hurray, newborn baby!! :D Congratulations.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

^ should definitely sig that.

Also, congrats! :D You're a mom!

Now let that sink in...

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

grats kayla, take care.

As for borderline files, I've got votes from 9 judges.
I'll wait for a day or so from now.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Off-topic, but, thank God, you're not dead.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I'll take a peek at the borderline stuff tomorrow. We're going to be here in the hospital for another day or two they like to make sure momma and baby are doing well but I can do it from here. But tonight I am exhausted so I'm just going to lay here and veg out lol. And thanks for all the congrats guys <3

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Hey Kayla what'd you do with the placenta?

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

eat it of course

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Lol...
Your newborn will be the youngest FFR Stepman ever
trust me

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Protein (y)

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

LOL

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I call the after birth

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Now we've got full votes from 10 judges.

If we don't have more votes we'll probably accept 4 files.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

From here, there was 14 points (7 judges accounted for).

With 10 judges, acceptance might be something like...14/20? Both roughly about 70% scores.

It's just a comparison, but it might give you an idea of what you're looking for.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Halloweenies was actually already submitted before when it had rolls and when it had 32nd streams instead of trills.
Results:
32nd streams are a no
Rolls are a no
Trills are a no

:???:

PS. Congratulations AJ and Kayla

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

11 judges have voted now. so max point is 22.

As for the current status (from higher to lower):
21, 17, 16, 15, (14), 13, 13, 11, 10, 10, 10, 10, 7.

borderline will be 13 or 14. or some of these ones will be in the conditional queue.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Damn, how did a file get 21 points now, but not when it was first judged o.0

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Given that the next real anything-goes batch will be for a long time, how about this:
- top 4 or 5 files got enough "yes" votes to get into queue
- the next files, all the way down to the 10s, averaged "yes with fix", so they should be in the conditional queue, and judges (or jx/bmah) can determine when they have been fixed enough. These files were good enough that with fixes they should easily get 14+/22 if we voted again.
- the 7 got a lot of "no" votes, so it should wait until the next batch(es).

Actually, even better, instead of using a 0x+1y+2z point system, let's just write it out as (x,y,z). Then we can see which option people are leaning towards. For instance, with 10 judges, (0,10,0) would be a clear candidate for the conditional queue; on the other hand, (5,0,5) would get the same number of points, but doesn't really need fixes, it's just that half of the judges really dislike the file itself.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Running men!! Or 1234231324321 this pattern

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

[1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234][1234]

is a yes

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

I tried tapping that out on my desk...depending on speed, I can see a lot of people screwing up in a pattern like that.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Its my favourite pattern ever

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

and you were the one talking about "awkward patterns" pffffff

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Hey, I use that pattern like once in a while

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

liar

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

a file that got put into the borderline doesn't necessarily mean that it was a bad file, but judges felt a need to accept it as a borderline file

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

Ahh, I see. Makes sense.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

So........my file rejected yet? Just curious. lol.

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

yep why can't people just wait for answers

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

awesome and I can wait, but there is also no harm in asking, not like I have been posting non stop about it, this is my first time asking since it was mentioned it was being put up for voting......

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

You're kidding right?
EDIT: derp

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2
 

hoorray for hidden text. gg halogen ;)