Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

... Just because I'm curious, but why do the people who already have [Oni] care so God damned much? You have it; let us try to get it. Simple? I completely agree that NWE isn't FMO difficulty. It, along with a really **** lucky run on Rottel-da-Station, are the only FMO SDG's I have. If you want to take [Oni] off of things that aren't really hard enough to be considered FMO's than go for it and make the easy songs VC's, but why make it ****ing harder to get? All you're going to end up doing is discouraging people from trying to get it.

Also, the point has been brought up that "CIA Rave was an FMO when it first came out, and it's a Challenging now." Doesn't that just go to show that FMO's are gradually getting harder anyway? Theoretically, with this increase, that means that [Oni] will gradually get harder to get, because the level cap for FMO's is getting higher. So, answer me this: why is it necessary to raise the level cap for [Oni] so drastically and all at once when it's going to happen naturally anyway?

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

Do you think CIA Rave becoming a VC was something that happened naturally, or was decided upon by community consensus then enacted?

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

Discouraging? Wouldn't that encourage you more to become better? Wouldn't it be that much sweeter knowing that you have a skill token that not many others have, rather than 400+ others?

Sorry for the vague example, but do you think CIA Rave is [Oni] get material now because it was a FMO in the past? Wait, why was it bumped down in the first place and now considered a Challenging? ... because of newer, harder songs.

What you're saying is correct, the level cap for FMO's is getting higher, thus increasing the required difficulty for [Oni], but there needs to be a drastic change because there hasn't been a change in... never. In the almost two years -if I'm not mistaken- that the song has been out, more song were added along the way, but only BF and VB were removed. Perhaps it's time?

EDIT: Damn, foot-shoe sounds so smrt and sexy.

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

Oh, so you DO want to take [Oni] away from people.

Okay.

Hey, while we're at it, why not redefine all the skill tokens so they're still a challenge to the top 0.01% of players? Let's make ERx8v2 public, and then make a v3 that requires getting 2 goods or better on ERx8v2. Or, hey, it's too easy to unlock Melonman's, so let's make it 30 times in a row instead of 3. And for EternuS we should have to pass every 7 and 8 in a row.

Seriously, if only a few people had [Oni] I would agree, but it is no longer an elite thing and that is why it pisses me off that the people who find it trivially easy are trying to prevent others from getting it. If I ever get [Oni] I won't be feeling good because I have something that not many other players have... I'll be feeling good because I got one of the three STs I don't have, and because I got my best AAA. Why would I be proud of being the 431st (or whatever) person to get some random token, when I can do a AAA that fewer people have done without even trying?

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

First @ EAGames: If all you're trying to say is that a reformation of the system on how we judge things on this game is, then sure, I agree. You're right, whether it's the hardest VC's or easiest FMO's, I don't care, but I don't think we should be making the requirements harder. But, I think this is just pure conjecture to say that this will happen. Looking at it realistically, it's a lot of work to put into it, and I don't really see anybody raising their hand like a 4 year-old child who knows the answer to a math question to do it. Not to mention all the controversy that it would bring up between players thinking that certain songs belong a certain difficulty, and other people think it should be a lower/higher one.

@Patashu: By players getting better over time, but that's exactly what I'm saying: players are getting better, and, over time, [Oni] will get harder to get as we get better. Who knows, in 10 years time, Ketsarku Mozgalom could be an FMO, and people could think of RATO as a low FGO (exaggeration, I know, but you get the point.) Just saying the change doesn't need to be so drastic.

EDIT (just read EAGames post): That's why I said you can make it a little harder. There are songs now that aren't quite FMO material that still have [Oni] attached to them, examples being NWE, LW4, maybe Rottel; But the way you're all arguing this is making me think I'm going to wake up tomorrow morning and see "Otaku Speedvibe [Oni] Requirements: AAA Frictional Nevada" on the skill tokens page. I'm not disagreeing with it being moved altogether, just not to such a degree that people are going to quit because they fear never being able to get it. In my shoes, if I saw that I had to AAA an FGO for [Oni], I'd give up on right now; the chances of that happening are a million to 1, and I'm sure I'm not the only one to feel this way.

Edit: Edit: Hi JX =D

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

Oh gawd, I'd cry if it were on FN. I hate that file...

uh no, not THAT drastic.
Niala is right. This is where it would get controversial, but weren't all the vROFL scores of those that didn't possess the token removed? Perhaps, from a certain day forward [Oni] is not obtainable through certain songs? I mean, that's what happened with BF/VB. Why not do it with the others?

EDIT: Hi JX. =D

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

That's because they were *cheating*. They didn't have the song.

I think eventually you and stavie are going to have to face the facts: a lot of people have [Oni]. It is NOT the sign of a good player anymore. Making [Oni] harder to get would be unfair to everyone who doesn't have it and would benefit nobody, unless you removed the token from the people who are not up to your standards, in which case it would be unfair to everyone but the top ~100 people in FFR. 99.99%. Just deal with the fact that lots of people have [Oni] and make a new ranking for yourself if you care so much. Ask Tass to make an [Edit], make your own fake skill token for those who can AAA a sufficiently hard song to impress you, make a club for those who you think are good enough... whatever. But the one thing you should NOT do is hurt everyone else just so the top few dozen players can have a more difficult benchmark to aim for.


P.S.
Let's say I give several hundred of the best FFR players a badge saying that they're good at FFR. Everyone except you, that is... for you to earn the badge you have to AAA FN.

Tell me, do you think you will feel encouraged or discouraged? Because that is how many people will feel if [Oni] is made drastically harder to unlock. If hundreds of people have unlocked something that suddenly becomes much much harder, you don't feel encouraged to improve in order to get it; instead you feel bad because you can't.

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

oh hi

As for difficulty(Easiest-FGO) re-rating, there're too many VD-FMO songs compared to easier songs now, so I kinda want better balance in difficulty. "Everyone's getting better" isn't an enough big reason for me though.

I don't think we should totally change the req for oni token, if it could be adjusted a bit.
adding new more challenging s-tokens is better, not sure when it happens though.

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

Special for you, stavie33:

This SS was taken by me with using old FFR engine with avmiss bug. So it WASNT so hard to aaa this song before!

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

they removed easier songs because of the removal of avmisses.

i doubt theyll raise oni requirement unless they got rid of goods or something.

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

Oni get should be to fc rondo on the ooooooooold ffr engine 8)

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

You realize Sprite-'s avmiss tourney engine is no where near as bad as it used to be? I thought it didn't have avmisses originally because it felt sooo much easier than the old FFR. Considering I SDG'd Turkish March on Sprite-'s engine, I realized it's no where near as bad as original avmiss FFR

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

What IS it doing then? I thought it was an older version of ffr found to be left up and transplanted over, and avmisses never came in an intermediate format as far as I recall

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

Yeah, I don't remember ever hearing of any intermediate version either. Maybe you remember a version which only had x1? Or maybe you remember it being harder because you weren't as good at accuracy back when FFR still had avmisses, and couldn't hit notes a bit early without getting tons of goods?

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

What I'm going to say is this: certain songs shouldn't bear the Oni token, and some should. I'm not up for changing the requirement outside of FMO songs, but times have changed--certain songs aren't as hard as they used to be because people have over-played them and mastered them. A For Masters Only song shouldn't have near 100 AAAs (None Would Escape SERIOUSLY NEEDS TO BE A VC)--it should be for, as you said, the best of the best. I'm tired of people getting cheap Oni unlocks by abusing the easy songs. In fact, the token should be updated so that it disappears after a song rating as been lowered from FMO (I'm looking at all of you who have it because of Balloon Fever). This isn't being elitist either. If songs are getting re-rated in difficulty, the tokens for getting requirements like Oni need to be balanced as well. There are quite a few songs that need to be re-ranked so that it's not an Oni get, and Oni should be expand so that it can be reached by AAAing ANY FMO, not just a certain one (I've heard of a few cases where it didn't unlock Oni, because said song wasn't a qualification for the unlock?).

Yeah, I'll rant about this topic for a while too. Oni is getting TOO easy to get and it needs to be stopped.

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

its only considered easier and easier to the people who already have it.


me, id be amazed at the day i manage to get oni, no matter how good YOU are getting, the new people still have to work as hard as you guys to get oni.

we shouldnt make it harder for the new people just because the people who already have it think its too easy.

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

What I've told many about FFR is that it's not physically possible for some people to be as good as the pro's, or even me, and I'm not THAT good. However, I have told my friends who want to start it's within everyone's capabilities to AAA one of the FMO's between 76-78. What I'm saying is, I'd like Oni to be moved up, but the people who say they will never get it if we move it up is just incorrect. No, I understand some people will never AAA songs like Ketsarku, BB Evo, or even EHHS which I think isn't that bad, but everyone should be physically capable of AAA'ing NWE and Choprite. If you don't think you'll ever AAA even those, then why are you even trying to improve at FFR if you think you'll never reach an achievable level? Almost none of us will be as good as EAG or Rubix, but everyone has a shot at being at my level and other people like WTFBrandon. When I first started FFR as damanwithdaskillz, I couldn't even FC Thinking Different (although that was back when it was VC and had no color coating and no speed mods, and OMW was FMO while Force of Light was FGO) and now look at me, I have over 10 FMO AAA's and 10 more BF's, you can do it too, so don't complain. It's unfair to have Oni on a song like NWE, but if we take that away, you should still be able to AAA Choprite and Epidermis eventually

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

I don't want the Oni token difficulty to go up per se, I'd rather have the Oni token unlock for ALL FMOs and then have the easiest ones (aforementioned in my last post).

Sorry--it's how I feel. You guys may think that it's coming from a biased position, but I can't help it. There were songs before None Would Escape that were decently difficult and Oni worthy, but once NWE came out, it was (AND STILL IS) abused to hell. You guys may say that it's unfair that we got it while we had the earlier songs, but you guys are getting an easier chance of getting it with songs that are considered FMO when they really are not.

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

Stavie, I understand what your saying. However, put this into perspective. People got ONI for AAA'ing songs like Sympathizer and Balloon Fever right? Though, now you want to move the token up to per se epidermis or Choprite. How is that fair?? To be honest, everyone should be able to get the token on the same level as those that got it before. Why raise the bar now? Eventually everyone is going to get better I understand that concept, but why raise a bar that was set so long ago, just because the token will be pretty much easy to get soon? Thats my theory, but I DO understand what your saying, I just feel it wouldn't really be that fair just as of yet.

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2
 

I have had a VC AAA for a while. Yet i can't consistantly FC ANY FMO. I would like to see the ONI token be able to get unlocked from every FMO in FFR. I consider myself good at this game, as do a few other people, but I can't AAA an FMO. So leave the token where it is. NWE isn't easy, around the 400 combo with the left hand mess. Silence is just a blue blob to me. The other ones have rolls in them, which i need to learn how to do. I also think people should be able to get ONI by AAAing a FGO. I mean chances are slim that someone will AAA a FGO first, but a few people have done that already. Sorry i didn't organize any of my thoughts correctly im getting yelled at to go to bed. XD