SethSquall

[Specforces]

How long have you been involved in Divination? I've done a little bit of rune-work myself sir.

[SethSquall]

Bout 5 years sir. Mainly Tarot though.

[Specforces]

Divination is a great initiatory practice and opens up a lot of doorways into the whole world. Good to see a fellow practitioner around these parts.

[SethSquall]

Has helped me and others a lot through the past years I've been studying, although it can get quite complicated, that why I always say I study them rather than claim to know how to do Tarot. I Know a few methods but it's always said you use your own after a certain time as you get more comfortable with the cards. I still consult the books I have of various opinions and stuff on Tarot but I usually use a method that is based of the "Key Word System", which kinda gets mixed with the number system. My favorite spread has to be the Celtic one. It's one of the most basic but it's probably the most effective, covering all of the key things like concerns, obstacles, objectives, past, present and immediate future.

At the moment I'm looking into the astrology and numerology side of Tarot.

[Specforces]

I like Crowley's Thoth deck.

[SethSquall]

You know your cards. Aleister Crowley, Edward Arthur Waite and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn is were I first started. I have a standard deck, but for real personal divination I use the Rider Waite Tarot.

[Specforces]

Yes, I know a lot that you may have never guessed

[SethSquall]

Haha indeed. You wouldn't believe the amount of people who say things like "Omg you do tarot so do i i have a final fantasy tarot deck says im going to be rich oloololo"

It's not too bad, but when you want to have a descent conversation about divination and the other person is under the impression "Death" mean they're going to die or get bummed by a huge black guy it gets quite annoying. Know what I mean?

[Tibs]

willies

[Specforces]

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean man. But to be quite honest, Tarot isn't even my field of specialty, I'm more of a Goetia/Enochian/Chaos/Black kind of guy. With some Nordic Runes here or there.

[Tibs]

i play a nord on oblivion he's pretty strong

[Specforces]

YEAH? I can cast a firaga spell, IRL

[Tibs]

no you cant youre a liar

[SethSquall]

Ahh. I've been forwarded to this stuff before. I looked a bit in Goetia as Aleister Crowley worked in that at some point and I noticed this when studying tarot. The rest I've read into but I haven't practiced anything, I find tarot alone quite mentally demanding still. I do intend to look into it though.

[Specforces]

Divination is such a good initiatory practice as it loosens the mind pretty well for other types of work. It breaks you free of the the programmed western thinking, mundane thinking.

[SethSquall]

See now I'm glad you said and put it like that. Mainly because I couldn't have with my vocabulary and I agree with you.

One thing that has always gotten me, is the bridge that most divination can make to your subconscious is always given the purpose of crossing to understand ones self. However, there's always something new at the depths of my noodle that gets brought to light that makes me more confused. It's weird. Bringing new understanding sometimes also bring more questions. But to be fair that is one of the main reasons I love it so.

[chardish]

Man, cards give me magical powers too. If I'm sitting at a table with some friends and happen to lay down four cards of the same number, they all give me lots of money.

[Tibs]

shut up chardish

[fastfingers65]

Watch it asswhipe

[GuidoHunter]

Really? Y'all are into that bull****?

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Tibs]

oh chardish unf unf

ew

[Tokzic]

Really? Y'all are into that bull****?


It's not not bull**** at all. I've done a lot of runereading for people and more times than not it's spot-on accurate. There's no proof against it, is there?

[Specforces]

Somebody sterilize it. TIBS, take care of it.

[Tibs]

sorry i'm far too entirely busy playing guitar hero

[chardish]

50/50 chance this thread will either go down the CT route or go down the route where we flame people for believing yu-gi-oh is real

[GuidoHunter]

It's not not bull**** at all. I've done a lot of runereading for people and more times than not it's spot-on accurate.

START THE PRESSES, GUYS! RUNE READING HAS BEEN PROVEN CORRECT!

Granted, psychics are still in business because some people still believe that that's meaningful.

There's no proof against it, is there?

That depends. What kind of claims does it make? Does it invoke gods to come down and affect the outcome of the stones? If so, no, as you can't disprove a construct (though you can't prove it, either). Does it make use of some sort of invisible energy or something? Because things that can be tested can be disproven.

If we are indeed dealing with a construct, the onus is on you to provide proof. If not, it's on me to disprove it.

I don't know much about rune reading, but Seth kind of tied it to Astrology, which is nothing but Grade A bull****.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Moogle-master]

Shun the non-believer.

ps the mind is a powerful thing, i think a strong belief in such things makes it real.

If you really want a good pack of cards, you want a pack that has good pictures on it, good symbology so you can remember what each card means without looking it up. You also need to know the story behind the cards at well, that kinda helps, rofl.

[msbrunnettemickey]

@ moogle:

yeah strong beliefs and a powerful mind do tend to lead you into some sort of wise thinking that can go beyond the physical world... but how do you do it with cards?

I'm not trying to say that it's stupid or anything i'm interested because I was raised to believe in the codes, kabbalah and the spheres of dimentions that are hidden in physics and the book itself (Torah)... So how does this all work with simple things like cards?

[Moogle-master]

If you don't beleive in what you're doing, you're never going to become good at what you do.

[msbrunnettemickey]

Trust me I have been taught those things since I was a kid... I'm a true believer. You can say I understand it better than Madonna and Demi combined heh.

I'm just getting to the point where everything is connected to someone/something.. if you know what I mean. I guess it's people's different point of view because they believe in different things.

[chardish]

If you don't beleive in what you're doing, you're never going to become good at what you do.

The inverse of this is not true.

[SethSquall]

I don't know much about rune reading, but Seth kind of tied it to Astrology, which is nothing but Grade A bull****.

I just said there an astrology side to it. Not Mars Jerking off Saturn grants you more success.

I knew you'd say something like this man. Although, your thinking that I mean "This planet is sending waves of joy and happiness through this star as these moons are aligned" maybe?

No. Sorry. I don't believe the cards draw powers or can summon the devil or gives you luck or gets you laid or anything like that. Is that what you believe Tarot are about Guido?

I was going to explain, but I can't be bothered much.

Simplest way I can put it is All cards are numbered. So some systems are done through numerology. That's why I'm reading into it. Some cards (minor arcane) are said to have the characteristics of planets that have been had from mythology. Doesn't mean they draw power from them or anything. This way the cards can be more explanatory or have meaning. "The Wheel of Fortune" is said to be ruled Jupiter and has attributes like Success. The Symbology can mean changes or a cycle. Looking into the fact that the number of the Wheel is 10 will have meaning as well.

But whatever man, I don't think you care either way.

[shade11]

This thread already went down the toilet.

[Moogle-master]

This thread makes me want to play Magical Drop 3.

[shade11]

This thread makes me want to play Magical Drop 3.

aaaand it's gone!

[foilman8805]

Magic the Gathering?

(Anything after Odyssey is complete **** though.)

[SethSquall]

yeah strong beliefs and a powerful mind do tend to lead you into some sort of wise thinking that can go beyond the physical world... but how do you do it with cards?

I'm not trying to say that it's stupid or anything i'm interested because I was raised to believe in the codes, kabbalah and the spheres of dimentions that are hidden in physics and the book itself (Torah)... So how does this all work with simple things like cards?

The cards don't have any powers. The cards can be simplified but I wouldn't say they are simple. One card has a lot of information. The Symbology can mean quite a lot, The number of the card can mean quite a lot. They way the card comes up in the spread can mean quite a lot. Cards together can mean a lot. Depending on the Minor or Major can say a lot about the spread. It goes on.

[Specforces]

Subconscious energies flowing through the currents of physical reality.

[Grandiagod]

The cards say: lawl fags

[Specforces]

I'LL GODDAMN END YOU GRANDIA I SWEAR TO GOD

[KgZ]

I SUMMON EXODIA! THE FORBIDDEN ONE!
fixed.

[Grandiagod]

But the cards say I will meet my end being raped by three African Americans on the shores of Norway after having one of those craps that are sooo hard but in the end turn out good because you don't really have to wipe!

[Specforces]

Oh Man, that sounds pretty amazing I won't lie

[SethSquall]

KgZ made me die. Awesome.

[Specforces]

most excellent indeed.

[Squeek]

I believe the subconscious mind is capable of much more than we can imagine.

I do not believe cards and rocks are the proper medium for exploiting that potential.

That is all.

[SethSquall]

I've tried a few ways, Tarot was by faaaaaar the best I've ever seen.

They are cards. It's how you use them though, like how they're interpreted or read or whatever word best suite it.

[KgZ]

They are just cards and it's not the cards on there own but it's how you use them that matters.
I honestly can't tell if you're serious or not

ps I don't have anything against people who believe in this though

[SethSquall]

Edited so I don't sound as much of a retard. I have no vocab.

[chardish]

With obscure enough meanings, you can assign whatever prediction you want to the outcome of cards.

If it's science then there should be rigid rules defining how things work out. If it's not science then I don't see how it could be proven correct.

[Grandiagod]

With obscure enough meanings, you can assign whatever prediction you want to the outcome of cards.

If it's science then there should be rigid rules defining how things work out. If it's not science then I don't see how it could be proven correct.

I suspect most people know it's not real and are doing it for fun.

[chardish]

YOU HAVE THE GIFT, NOW EXPLOIT YOUR POWERS FOR PERSONAL PROFIT
http://www.codexmagica.com/images/miss_cleo.jpg

[SethSquall]

With obscure enough meanings, you can assign whatever prediction you want to the outcome of cards.

If it's science then there should be rigid rules defining how things work out. If it's not science then I don't see how it could be proven correct.

It's not like they're vague horoscopes like "You will make a decision today".

They are quite descriptive. They don't have obscure meanings either. You don't need to improvise the outcome so it'll make sense.

I suspect most people know it's not real and are doing it for fun.

Agreed. I've met a few people who claim to believe in them, but it's clear they're doing it for other reasons, to impress people for instance.

[SethSquall]

YOU HAVE THE GIFT, NOW EXPLOIT YOUR POWERS FOR PERSONAL PROFIT
http://www.codexmagica.com/images/miss_cleo.jpg

Lmao, How do you become an authentic shaman? Hahahahaah.

Personal? Private? Over the phone? Yea ok.

Plus these things always make it o_0. I find it hard to do readings over the net or something. To me it's important to be with the actual person. They are kinda personal.

[Tibs]

http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s76/imtibs/cleo1.png



http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s76/imtibs/cleo2.png



http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s76/imtibs/cleo3.png



http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s76/imtibs/cleo4.png



http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s76/imtibs/cleo5.png

[SethSquall]

Ahahahahahahahah I love you so much.

[chardish]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha Tibs.

[msbrunnettemickey]

kakakakakakaka

[Tokzic]

sidenote: i don't actually believe in tarot cards i was just doing it to provoke a six paragraph long response from guido or chardish

[Forlorn Radiance]

As for the cards. I cannot disprove it, so I'll remain silent...as for the astrology side, there is a physics formula my astrology professor showed us once, and it totally disproves astrology...brb while I goggle the equation...

[Tokzic]

brb while I goggle the equation...

but that will make it do nothing

[Forlorn Radiance]

F = GMm/R²

where

* F is the force of attraction between two objects
* G is the universal gravitational constant; G = 6.67*10-11 N-m²/kg². The units of G can be stated as Newton meter-squared per kilogram-squared or Newton square meter per square kilogram.
* M and m are the masses of the two objects
* R is the distance between the objects, as measured from their centers
* GMm/R² is G times M times m divided by R-squared

The problem is R. With the distance of heavenly bodies, the R^2 means that we have more of an affect on each other than the stars/planets do. Its so infinitesimally small, that you could say it has no effect.

[Litodude]

goggles
They do nothing.

[Omeganitros]

The whole exchange between Specforces and SethSquall was elaborately scripted and everyone fell for it.

[Forlorn Radiance]

<<<sucker

[chardish]

Chardish [12:39 PM]: are you horse****ting seth with the whole tarot thing?
Spec [12:40 PM]: um, no

I don't think that qualifies me as having fallen for it

[Omeganitros]

Watch. One of these days me 'n Spec are gonna do this whole thing about how fascinating the Battle of Worcester is.

[GuidoHunter]

I just said there an astrology side to it. Not Mars Jerking off Saturn grants you more success.

I knew you'd say something like this man. Although, your thinking that I mean "This planet is sending waves of joy and happiness through this star as these moons are aligned" maybe?

No. Sorry. I don't believe the cards draw powers or can summon the devil or gives you luck or gets you laid or anything like that. Is that what you believe Tarot are about Guido?

I don't know what Tarot or runereadings or anything like that is about; I'm genuinely curious, despite how I may have phrased my earlier question. When I asked what claims tarot makes, it wasn't rhetorical; I actually want to know how it explains itself so that some rational discussion on it can be made.

Some cards (minor arcane) are said to have the characteristics of planets that have been had from mythology. Doesn't mean they draw power from them or anything.

Is the latter statement any less reasonable than the first?

This way the cards can be more explanatory or have meaning. "The Wheel of Fortune" is said to be ruled Jupiter and has attributes like Success. The Symbology can mean changes or a cycle. Looking into the fact that the number of the Wheel is 10 will have meaning as well.

Is there anything out there to suggest that such meanings aren't just completely arbitrary? What about the "Wheel of Fortune" signifies a rule by Jupiter or success? Who dubbed ten the number of the Wheel? Is there any sort of empirical corroboration to these claims?

But whatever man, I don't think you care either way.

You'd be wrong; I care greatly about things like these. I'm not going to fault you for getting that impression, though.

F=Gm1m2/r^2

I find it hilarious that you had to use google for Newton's Law of Gravitation, especially since you referenced it as a "physics formula [which] totally disproves astrology", when it does no such thing by itself.

All you proved by that was that distant planets have a negligible gravitational force on us.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Forlorn Radiance]

I find it hilarious that you had to use google for Newton's Law of Gravitation, especially since you referenced it as a "physics formula [which] totally disproves astrology", when it does no such thing by itself.

All you proved by that was that distant planets have a negligible gravitational force on us.

--Guido

Technically it is a physics formula, and I had to Google it because I haven't been in school for 2 years...that stuff doesn't stick with me. And it disproves Astrology because those planets are supposed to have a pull over us, which Newton disproves. Maybe I'm just too shallow so feel free to show me my err.

[SethSquall]

Bare with me now Guido I'll do my best to explain this to you. I'm not sure what more I could tell you that wikipedia couldn't, I'll start by explaining how I use them. If you want to find how they started or why some cards, attributes are symbolized through whatever or why is a certian card that number then I couldn't explain it to you well enough, your best reading the Wikipedia or something.

I either ask or somebody asks (If I'm doing somebody a reading) a question that they would like to know about they're lives. It can't be like "Will Tim totally hook up with Cindy?" obviously. The question could be quite specific or quite open about themselves. It doesn't matter. For example, remember when Afrobean was asking about whether he should stay in college or quit and work more hours? Well that's the type of specific question I sometimes deal with. Sometimes you have a lot going on in your life and you'd like to clear things up. Your head is clouded with stress and you want to take a step back and unmist things, evaluate your life at the moment and get a plan going. This is an example of the of the more open question or problem that Tarot can help.

Now I'll explain how the card help. The Major Arcane (these are the cards like Death, Fool, Wheel, Tower and so on) reveal your mental condition. The Minor Arcane (These are the cards that have the four suits, Wands, Cups, Pentacles and Swords) show specific directions , thoughts and explain ideas. Now lets look at what the Minor Arcane suits mean.

Wands
Key words: Work and Social activities
Fire Element: Action, courage, passion, enthusiasm.
Zodiac: Aries, Leo, Sagittarius.

Cups
Key Words: Love and Emotions.
Water Element: Emotions, intuition, subconscious, Memories, Birth, Marriage.
Zodiac: Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces

Pentacles
Key Words: Money and Health
Earth Element: Stability, Dependability, reliability, Material Possessions, Health Matters
Zodiac Taurus, Virgo, Capricorn

Swords
Keywords: Problems and Troubles
Air Element: Mental attributes. discrimination, strife, adaptability
Zodiac: Gemini, Libra, Aquarius

There are 40 Minor Arcane, 10 of each suit. I don't pay attention to the Zodiac signs much, that is how it can be link to astrology though. I take note of the Keywords and the Element attributes. I then combine them with the number of each suit. In the Key word system that I use, each number has a keyword as well. One to ten have the four suits of Minor Arcane which make the 40 Minor. Also you need to take note of who rules that number (The Major Arcane) as they have there own Keywords and Attributes as well. They are,

0: Everyone - Ruled by "The Fool"
Ace: I will - Ruled by "The Magician"
II: I know - Ruled by "The High Priestess"
III: I make - Ruled by "The Empress"
IV: I realize - Ruled by "The Emperor"
V: I believe - Ruled by "The Hierophant"
VI: I choose - Ruled by "The Lovers"
VII: The Path - Ruled by "The Chariot"
VIII: Strength - Ruled by "Strength"
IX: Wisdom - Ruled by "The Hermit"
X: Cycles - Ruled by "Wheel of Fortune"
XI: Justice, Equilibrium - Ruled by "Justice"
XII: Sacrifice, Reversal - Ruled by "The Hanged Man"
XIII: Transformation - Ruled by "Death"
XIV: Moderation Tests, Trials - Ruled by "Temperance"
XV: Materialism, Deception - Ruled by "The Devil"
XVI: Catastrophe - Ruled by "The Tower"
XVII: Discovery, Aspiration - Ruled by "The Star"
XVIII: Attainment - Ruled by "The Moon"
XIX: Renewal - Ruled by "The Sun"
XX: Awareness - Ruled by "Judgment"

So, lets say for instance you get the card 2 of wands. The key Phase of the High Priestess is "I Know" and the wands mean "Work and Social activities" So, the most basic I can put it is "I know my work and social activities". Lmao. but of course it goes a bit further than that depending on the situation. I would say that you are successful and have the knowledge to great things in your work. You use your knowledge to socialize well and use both will and ego to do so.

Now if you're wondering how I managed to get that from just. "I know my work and social activities" then you need to understand a lot of that description comes from the ruler of the card "The High Priestess", a Major Arcane of the number 2. She has attributes like Science, Reason, Good intellect, Memory, Knowledge, Secret wisdom, Emotions, subconscious and Intuition.

Also note, I still haven't used any astrology or numerology much. I also haven't gone into the pictures on each card and the symbology. So hopefully you now know how extremely descriptive each card is and why some people get quite freaked out at how accurate they can be.

So now you have a basic knowledge of the cards I try and briefly explain how I use them, see below "The Celtic Spread".

http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/4885/celticx.jpg

Or Celtic Cross Spread whatever.

You notice the cards are numbered. This is just a key to explain what card symbolizes what aspect of your life.

1: Concern
2: Obstacles
3: Objectives
4: Thoughts/Feelings
5: Past
6: Immediate Future
7: Attitude about the Question
8: Outside influences
9: Hopes and Fears
10: Final Outcome

Before I start to lay down the cards for me or somebody I need to either think about the question and concentrate on it while shuffling the cards or the person who is going to get the reading needs to think about the question and concentrate on it whilst shuffling the cards. Sometimes, I won't ask them to shuffle the cards. I will ask them to ask me the question whilst holding or touching the cards. I know this sounds all "oooo mysterious and mystical" but I ask this as an act of being open minded, if you want to be skeptical that's fine, just do it after the reading. If you close of your mind your closing your subconscious and that defeats the whole purpose of getting a reading.

Now lets say for example, the question is regarding work and #1 came up 7 of Pentacles.

I'd say it was the money side of things that concern you, rather than the social aspect or anything else as Pentacles are about Money and Health. So I'd say you need to try and take a path that would lead to more money. Most people who ask about there Job are thinking of moving to another, or accepting a higher position. If they just think they need more money then with this card in the spread I'd say it be a good idea to search somewhere else.

I'll do the next one too before moving on, say #2 (obstacles) came up "The Empress".

I'd say (given the keyword and attribute behind the card of course) that you don't feel appreciated at work. Your powers are not being put to use. Your excellent social person, your very good communicating. Your creative and very skillful but you feel your job is not tending to any of these things in life. You feel you should enjoy your work more and I'd agree with you. If your not happy in your job then that's a pretty big deal.

Hopefully now you can see how the spread works. There are hundreds of spreads. Some spreads can go up to 40 odd cards, although I'll think you'll find the one that use these spreads are the ones who want to take up more of your time. If there time cost you money of course. Some spreads deal with past, present and future alone. Some spreads are done daily and on consist of 5 or 6 cards, to which people judge how there day will be of what the cards tell them. Well anyway, you know how I use the cards now. I use "The Celtic Spread"

One thing I should mention about a reading as well, is some people (me included) don't just shuffle the cards, we also turn cards upside down. The shuffle some more, see, Tarot card are quite positive for the most part. All cards have positive attribute and you'll find the negative attribute the exact opposite of the positive ones. For instance, the card "Temperance" has a positive attribute of balanced actions. If the card is reversed in a spread then all the positives are now the negative and the Balanced action now becomes disharmony.

Right, I hope this has explained a bit, I can't think of much else to explain at the moment without seeing what questions you may have out sides of "TL;DR".

TL;DR Version

There isn't one sorry.

[Moogle-master]

Temperance was my favourate character in magical drop 3.

[Tibs]

yeah no-one read that, sorry

[KgZ]

This is more than just a duel