View Full Version : Making a Controller
Yea.. you read it.. im making my own special controller for SM.. modled after the Pop N Music controller.. I have concept ideas. but i have already basically choosen my favorite.. just want to know what everyone else thinks would be the best design... The box will be made out of wood.. then covered over with Aluminum siding.. or Tin.. just some type of sheet metal to make it like nice.. and the buttons were initially going to be actual pop n music buttons.. but those are hard to find.. so im going with bike reflectors.. just because they look sweet and they would look even better at night.. plus they are mutli colored and are cheap... wel anyway... hit me back with what yall are thinking..
EDIT * Sorry everyone.. this is for my hands.. about the size of a key board Length and Width.. and is tilted slightly forward for better hand comfort..
lightdarkness
12-6-2003, 09:59 AM
wait somewhat confused
is this for your hands or your feet
cause if its for your feet, number 3, but hands, 2
EDIT: Then deffinalty number 2
Cenright
12-6-2003, 10:13 AM
I never have used my feet, but for my hands I use design 4. The left and the right arrow are touching, with the up and down arrows split by left and right ones.
It would probably work for feet though, all close together means having faster moves for the fast songs right?
Privateer
12-6-2003, 10:38 AM
Bike reflectors? That's like, way too big.
Bike reflectors? That's like, way too big.
The size of a bike reflector is roughly 3 inches in diameter... which is actually the perfect size for what i am needing.. Remeber.. this is going to be about the same size as a keyboard...
Privateer
12-6-2003, 11:29 AM
Are you playing with your fingers? You say hands but 3 inches is very big to play with fingers.
dancingmaniac3
12-6-2003, 12:18 PM
it would be very hard if they are seperated, each reflector at 3 inches in Diameter...cuz u would have to move ur whole arm left and right just to hit each key on number 1, unless u play with two hands. it would be very hard. and i still think bike reflectors are a bit too big. or if u use your fists or something, then it would be different. but i dunno. i still think number 3 is cool, but number 2 is like a regular keyboard, number 1 is too basic.
hmm.. Ok.. i will try to describe this agian..
The controller is as big as a keyboard... buttons 3 inches in diameter... depending on the setup the buttons will be spaced 3/4 inch to a 1/2 apart... I will be playin two handed.. slapping the buttons as if i were playing Pop N Music at the arcade... I am trying to make it hard.. because playing with my fingers has gotten too easy and i need a new challenge... so based on this.. what do yall think?
scorpio1690
12-6-2003, 01:29 PM
I'd think that hitting them like Pop N Music would be easier, but that's my point of view cause I've been playing the drums for 6 years. But I like the first one if any.
Cenright
12-6-2003, 01:35 PM
If you play it like that, then it seems 3 would be the best. You just make them into an arc. That way you can rest your wirsts and rotate at the wrist from the inner ones to hit the outer ones, the curvature is good.
Tasuke
12-6-2003, 02:30 PM
But, what if you just kind-of spread out and turned to the outside the buttons from Cenright's design
so you mbasically keep the basic design of a DDR pad but there not close together so that you have a chance of hitting the wrong one lioke say: hitting the UP instead of the RIGHT(I do that sometimes when playing FFR)
but the problem with design 2, 4 and my idea is that since the average keyboard is only about 6-7 inches long the UP and DOWN buttons would have to be pretty close together (unless you make the buttons smaller) Then, I think the problem with having the UP and DOWN buttons next to each other is that, you might confuse them if you were only lookin' at the screen...
O-K I'll shut-up now
Cenright
12-6-2003, 02:33 PM
Sorry Tasuke, you lost me. "Make the buttons further apart on #4" was all I got out of that.
jewpinthethird
12-6-2003, 03:25 PM
I think number one is the best because it resembles Pop n Music the best and it is something new besides the conventional step pad set-up. It also lines up with the actually arrows on the screen.
And if you have room, add two more buttons to the sides so you can play other Bemani simulaters like BM98 or Rhythm-It (on 5 key mode) and Band Jam.
Alright, I spent some time on this in PHOTOPLUS (the much sweeter alternative to PhotoShop) and have come up with the following image to help you understnad what I am trying to do. Hope you like it...
lightdarkness
12-6-2003, 04:04 PM
ok
now that is sweet
i want one, MOMMY MOMMY, I WANT DAT ONE!!!!
Privateer
12-6-2003, 04:04 PM
That's what it should be then 87x, as pictured in your last post.
Anticrombie0909
12-6-2003, 05:48 PM
I'd say number two, except that's exactly the same as the keyboard and kind of defeates the purpose of having a separate controller.
makdaddy
12-6-2003, 09:01 PM
ME WANT THAT ONE!
RobbyZero
12-7-2003, 02:23 AM
If you do intend to have this created,make it worldwide man if it's any kind of success.
Think of the possibilities.....
1.Lots of money
2.Lots of internet fame
3.Lots of money
scorpio1690
12-7-2003, 02:40 AM
You could be like Bill Gaites, horribly rich and marries hot chicks who are gold diggers :D
RobbyZero
12-7-2003, 02:43 AM
You could be like Bill Gaites, horribly rich and marries hot chicks who are gold diggers :D
Yep be like BILL GATES
scorpio1690
12-7-2003, 02:47 AM
OMG YOU'RE ON OF THEM! REPENT REPENT! UNCLEEAN UNCLEEAN
yea.. i wsa thinking about doing that.. i already have the idea copy righted.. just need to patent the invention.... if i did start "mass" producing these then i would make different designs for button patterns so people could have them were they wanted.. but I am glad that people are actually liking this and not flaming me for being creative.. Well anyway... keep your ideas comming I really am taking them all into consideration..
RobbyZero
12-7-2003, 02:58 AM
This is not an idea this is an order!
1. Perfect the model
2.Perfect the prototype
3.TEST IT BILLLLIIIIOOOONNNNNS OF TIMES
4.MASS PRODUCTION
5.Release it in Canada first!
:P
scorpio1690
12-7-2003, 02:59 AM
This is not an idea this is an order!
1. Perfect the model
2.Perfect the prototype
3.TEST IT BILLLLIIIIOOOONNNNNS OF TIMES
4.MASS PRODUCTION
5.Release it in Canada first!
:P
6. GIMME GIMME GIMME
RobbyZero
12-7-2003, 03:00 AM
Ok but seriously man. This invention is really really interesting and extremely creative and original. It's great,would easily sell if it actually was good and ready to go. You would make a lot of people happy :)
Well.. i need to finish the first one first.. after that i will see whats going on with it.. im getting matterials tomorrow to build an acutal size model.. to be able to see actualy design flaws... and if needed a resizing.. now.. i have calculated the actual size of it and have drawn a full scale top view of it.. when compared to my keyboard the width doesn't even reach my arrows keys.. dont let the concept drawing make you think that its going to be this HUGE MONSTER controller.. its not meant for full arm swinging craziness... just more like resting your elbows and letting your forearms and wrists and hands do all the work..
RobbyZero
12-7-2003, 03:12 AM
I can picture that. Sounds good to me when I repeat it to myself and try to picture it.Well keep us posted man. This thing could be something great!
Yes.. and i actually just talked to SoujiroXx, i think yall remember him.. used to post a while ago.. anyway, he had a really SWEET idea.. that will actually probably get thrown into the first design/proto-type.. many thanks go out to him.. and i will be sure to update frequently on the progress of the project... Im expecting to post a picture of the full scale model after i complete it tomorrow..
scorpio1690
12-7-2003, 03:30 AM
Well.... I take it you're not going to tell us what the idea is right now then eh? lol. But man, you're new thinger's gonna be kewl. (Thinger's a kewl word).
Off topic:Where are you moving to in Canada?
Elaith22
12-7-2003, 09:20 AM
I like #3
No comments Elaith??.. im looking for people to CONSTRUCTIVELY criticize my work..
Anticrombie0909
12-7-2003, 11:38 AM
The one thing you have to HAVE TO MAKE SURE TO DO is make sure the buttons are:
1.Easily accessable to all fingers at all times, without having to reach
2.Have a very strong spring. My keyboard has a weak spring, and as a result its hard to do very fast combos.
3.Make sure they have something for the finger to grip, and make it raised at the edges.
4.Make it support triples (obviously, just thought I'd throw that in there)
Privateer
12-7-2003, 11:44 AM
This isn't for fingers. READ READ READ ANTI COME ON
Anticrombie0909
12-7-2003, 12:04 PM
EDIT * Sorry everyone.. this is for my hands.. about the size of a key board Length and Width.. and is tilted slightly forward for better hand comfort..
I see. I read this and figured people thought it was for his feet and he was correcting them, saying it was for his hands (using his fingers).
dancingmaniac3
12-7-2003, 12:15 PM
that is so fuckin' sweet dude. sweeeeeettttt.....87x is god. ok not really. but thats awesome. i want one lol. but what are you gonna do? kneel down or what? or are you gonna put it on a table, or leave it on the floor and kneel on it? hopefully you will elevate it. other wise you would strain your back/neck, kneeling down and looking up at the same time for a while. (hopefully ur smart enough to think of that, which im sure you did.)
hydrojakep
12-7-2003, 12:36 PM
number 2 definatly
jewpinthethird
12-7-2003, 03:07 PM
Oh, and add like a Flashflashrevolution.com graphic somewhere. That way, if you ever did want to sell it to the masses, those who dont have/want SM can just play here.
nestlekwik
12-7-2003, 03:53 PM
Totally sweet dude. The proto pic is tight.
And btw people, a Pop 'N music arcade controller isn't played with the fingers. You slap the huge buttons with your hands. Just go ahead and try playing an AC PNM controller with your fingers and see how well you do. It sounds dirty but it's fun.
1.Easily accessable to all fingers at all times, without having to reach
2.Have a very strong spring. My keyboard has a weak spring, and as a result its hard to do very fast combos.
3.Make sure they have something for the finger to grip, and make it raised at the edges.
4.Make it support triples (obviously, just thought I'd throw that in there)
already taken care of... except easily accesable to all fingers part.. your right hand isnt going to be the best choice for hitting the left arrow..
what are you gonna do? kneel down or what? or are you gonna put it on a table, or leave it on the floor and kneel on it? hopefully you will elevate it. other wise you would strain your back/neck, kneeling down and looking up at the same time for a while. (hopefully ur smart enough to think of that, which im sure you did.)
Its planned to sit in my lap.. ONLY because pllaying a controller like this on my computer stand would probably break the key board tray.
Oh, and add like a Flashflashrevolution.com graphic somewhere. That way, if you ever did want to sell it to the masses, those who dont have/want SM can just play here.
well for the controller you have to get a certain program to run controllers for FFR.. i forgot what it was called something like "controller to keyboard" i cant remember.. but of course... A FFR logo WILL be on my controller.
And btw people, a Pop 'N music arcade controller isn't played with the fingers. You slap the huge buttons with your hands. Just go ahead and try playing an AC PNM controller with your fingers and see how well you do. It sounds dirty but it's fun.
yea.. here.. this is pop n music ...
http://www.momsbox.com/redir.php?key=0000010255&title=Piano Revolution. Madd
.... just watch that
jewpinthethird
12-7-2003, 06:17 PM
Awesome. I want to play. You better make that controller strong if you plan on hitting it that hard.
Privateer
12-7-2003, 06:21 PM
Holy crap that's crazy...too bad I can't play it.
Another Question to answer for yall:... How much would you be willing to pay for something like this.. keep in mind that all of these would be CUSTOM.. Hand made..
willson13
12-7-2003, 07:06 PM
After watching and reviewing the previous video...Oh. My. Fucking. God. HOW DO HIS HANDS NOT FALL OFF? Some of those Japanese are crazy. GO JAPAN.
willson13
12-7-2003, 07:08 PM
Oh, yeah, um, the controller thing. You might want to put foam or something soft around the buttons, just on the top, because like I said about that video it seems like if you do it enough it could really hurt, so maybe something around the edges could help.
well.. think of it like this.. your not trying to kill the controller.. take your hands and do a drum roll on your computer stand or wall or floor.. anything thats solid.. now.. you know how hard you can hit soemthing before it starts to hurt.. so basically dont try and kill the controller.. hit it hard enought to register.. but not so hard that your hand goes numb.. BUT.. i will incorporate something like that into the actual controller design.. but if i don't .. don't get mad..
willson13
12-7-2003, 07:21 PM
but if i don't .. don't get mad..
If you don't I'll kill you. And how sensitive are these buttons going to be?
Privateer
12-7-2003, 08:13 PM
And you'll sell these? So they would be compatible with a comp so I could play Stepmania like that?
If you don't I'll kill you. And how sensitive are these buttons going to be?
hm.. well the button will have around 3 - 5 sensors each so no matter where you hit them it will recognize it.. so they will be highly sensative.. and remember.. this is still in pre production stages.. i don't expect to have this completed perfectly... until after christmas, probably mid january.. So.. I have plenty of time to test out all that i need too before even asking if anybody wants one..
And you'll sell these? So they would be compatible with a comp so I could play Stepmania like that?
well yes and no.. these will be compatable with PS mostly.... BUT.. if you goto http://www.lik-sang.com/list.php?category=23&
you will find the adapter needed to hook up a ps2 controller to your PC.. I have one and it works perfectly.. I use my PS controller on emulators and for playing SM all the time, and it even registers 4 buttons at once.. so pick up one of those if you want to play with My controller for your PC...
That is how i have it planned out right now.. i might actually switch out my PS controller wiring design with a key board wiring design so that you can just plug it into your PC.. or even switch it out with some type of controller that uses a USB connection so you wont have to unplug your keyboard to play with it... but anyway.. like i said before.. I'm still VERY early in production design.. and wont have a set production plan until i try all of these methods..
Tasuke
12-7-2003, 11:00 PM
Why is alomst everyone on this site either a genius or a...
uhhh. Nevermind
because smart people like ddr... :) ... and im not a genius.. well nevermind.. your right.. i am a genius.. :)
nestlekwik
12-8-2003, 10:54 AM
A custom AC Pop 'N Music controller runs $400. I don't know what type of logistics are involved, but it would appear this is half the size. Based on the size, I'd say $150-$200, but if it can go cheaper, I'm all for it.
well.. $150 - $200, hm.. a little steep for the average gamer.. the only reason i dont have pop n music is BECAUSE the controller is $400... but i don't plan on making this think cost over $100 id i dont have too... but if the materials needed run for a higher cost than i think they would then it might be a possibility.. no confirmed price yet.. not even an estimate..
RobbyZero
12-8-2003, 04:14 PM
Well let's see. PS2 controllers here in Canada I can buy for about 30 I guess maybe cheaper or a little bit more. I guess if you product did come out I'd like to see it under 100$ range. Or else the freakishly nuts would only buy it and people like me couldn't afford it. But I would definetly buy it if it were 100 maximum.
nestlekwik
12-8-2003, 04:45 PM
well.. $150 - $200, hm.. a little steep for the average gamer.. the only reason i dont have pop n music is BECAUSE the controller is $400... but i don't plan on making this think cost over $100 id i dont have too... but if the materials needed run for a higher cost than i think they would then it might be a possibility.. no confirmed price yet.. not even an estimate..
The CS controller is $60, but when you factor in shipping, it becomes $75-80 from some places. Like I said, I don't know what your logistics are, but $100 would be a good target and if you can do it for cheaper, even better.
chillywilly
12-8-2003, 04:53 PM
my keyboard works justy fine for me. i really dont need anything else.
Well.. sorry everyone.. No Model done yet.. sunday sucked for me, stayed up all night saturday.. and pased out on sunday 11:30 am till 6:30 pm.. everywhere was closed, so i couldn't get any supplies... Monday sucked as well.. only got 3 hours of sleep and was looking forward to 10 hours of school (7 hours regular, 3 hours night) :? ... so after finding out that there was no night school i got happy.. but i had no ride home till 7.. so i went to a friends house and hung out until around 6:30.. until i got home.. went out to Garden Ridge and they didn't have Black foam board/reflector material... so i went to CVS.. and still nothing.. i didn't feel like driving to wal-mart today.. so i will just wait to till tomorrow... but the concpet is comming along.. So no fear.. i havent given up on this yet.. not by a long shot... keep waiting, its comming..
Alright.. much antisipated.. The model is done.. although it doesn't have the stickers/decals that the actual controller would have.. you get the idea..
Lupin_the_3rd
12-9-2003, 10:21 PM
nice...you are an efficient worker, that woulda taken me like weeks
Cenright
12-9-2003, 10:24 PM
Well it looks like he is very motivated. That is nice to see.
Lupin_the_3rd
12-9-2003, 10:25 PM
87x has damn sexy hands...lol
Cenright
12-9-2003, 10:31 PM
You would think he has a sister who loves to play manicurist.
His mother probably makes him be nice to this little sister that sometimes is annoying.
Either that or his family has all those lotions.
dont feel like quoting.. so..
"87x has damn sexy hands...lol"
thanks..
"You would think he has a sister who loves to play manicurist.
His mother probably makes him be nice to this little sister that sometimes is annoying.
Either that or his family has all those lotions."
Oh yes.. I have LOTS of lotions..
Cenright
12-9-2003, 11:02 PM
Ok. That explains it. Yeah, my brother is the same way.
yes.. but besides all the small talk.. I NEED FEEDBACK.. as you can see the size of the controller had gotten larger than i expected.. but it wsa needed.. the reflectors i had planned on using weren't 2 1/2 inches.. they were 3 1/4 ... so i had to reposition them and reproportion the whole thing.. but it was well worth it.. and i am also starting to see how much it will actually cost to make a working controller..
jewpinthethird
12-9-2003, 11:19 PM
Ha! I think he uses the lotions for more than just making his hands smooth.
Cenright
12-9-2003, 11:50 PM
Jewpin... I don't think that was needed.
Ok 87x, are there 4 contacts per button? are they in an X shape (diagonals) or a + shape (cardinal directions)? Are you using 4 small springs alternating around the contacts, or do you have one big spring in the center?
To make it easier, can I see what it looks like under the button?
jewpinthethird
12-10-2003, 12:37 AM
Oh, it most definitely was.
I would suggest using 4 springs for durability and leverage.
Why yes.. i am using 4 contatcs per button.. will be shaped in a square design underneath to button and will probably also put one in the middle, to be honest i was still thinking of ways to get the button to pop back up after pressing it, but i guess the 4 springs alternating around would be good. I have never made a custom controller before, so if anybody has and has already been through the button design flaws, could you tell me what works and what doesn't, I would greatly appreciate it.. you would save me a whole lot of time..
RobbyZero
12-10-2003, 04:30 PM
This is great. Use what you got for now. Try 4 contacts and if it doesnt work try something else. Dont forget this shit doesnt just happen in minutes it takes time,so play with it a bit who knows,you might make it better. But its looking good up to now.
I HAVE THE SAME SHORTS AS YOU :)
still back to the contacts... explain a contact.. or better yet.. post a link to a site where i can get these"contacts".. like i said.. i have never made a controller.. and never read anyhting on how to make a controller.. so the parts needed to make this controller arent really on the tip of my tongue.. i know i need sensors (guessing its the same as these contact things), wire, something to make the buttons come back up (i heard springs as a solution, but still decideing on that), and a type of circuit board ( thing to hook the wires to that would transmit the information from the sensor, to the wire, to the circuit board, and to my computer). If anyone could help me out with actual Product sites other than just names i would greatly appreciate it..
Cenright
12-10-2003, 05:30 PM
Tak apart an old keyboard and use the contacts there as an idea.
thought of that.. and figured i woul have to hack up the circuit board of the key board to just get the certain circuit i wanted.. and while hacking up the keyboard i could fuck it up.. so i was trying to go another way with it.
Cenright
12-10-2003, 05:50 PM
I understand your problem. You know how there are two parts that you connect to create the circuit? You might be able to connect all of the contacts to the same wire, that way all you need is the touch. You connect a metal plate the size of the reflector to the bottom of the reflector, with the wire connected to make the entire reflector a single contact. Then you would need to string a wire around the pad that the button is pressed down on, creating one large circular contact. The only problem is that the spring would have to be nowhere near the second contact.
Just an idea if you hadn't already though of it. -can draw a pic if needed-
i cracked open an old key board yesterday night just to see what i was dealing with.. all it is is think sheets of plastic with sensor points on them..there are two of these seperate by a thin sheet of plastic.. im guessing that when you press a key the rubber peice comes down and touches on the sensor on the top piece of plastic which pushes down to contact to the other piece of plastic ... so im probably going to fiddle with that when i get out of school
Alright for those of you who need visual representation i have take these pictures..
Ok my guess it that the two level of the sensor are seperated by the plastic sheet because for the computer to register that you have hit a button those sensors have to touch... so the black rubber material that goes on top of the upper sensor sheet, with its pointed back side, when pressed, the tip of the black rubber thing presses on the upper sensor which is continually pressed down to touch the bottom sensor registering it for your computer. Now.. if someone could edit one of the sensor pictures to show where i am allowed to cut so that i don't break the circuit line i would be happy.... Or... could someone tell me if its like connect the dots.. i can follow the while line that goes through these sensors for the arrows to the circuit board.. and long as i dont cut the white line that the arrows are on should the sensor line still work?.. alright thanks.. going to test more ideas now..
jewpinthethird
12-11-2003, 05:33 PM
Your shoe is cool. So that is going to be at the base?
no.. was just a concept.. but will ow be changed.. for i have just realised that the keyboard doesn't work... :).. waiste of time.. back to square 1..
lightdarkness
12-11-2003, 05:53 PM
wow
your smart
sounds like you are really gonna follow this thing through
good luck, cant wait to see final project.
me either.. im hoping to have atleast one finished by christmas.. that way i can give it to myself as a christmas present
lightdarkness
12-11-2003, 05:58 PM
that way i can give it to myself as a christmas present
Making yourself your own christmas present
this is what you do
squezze some money from parents or guardian or what ever and then build it, with their money, as if they are paying for the gift, u just make it.
hell no.. that would take away from christman money.. i just need to work like twice.. and then i could pay for the whole thing twice over.
lightdarkness
12-11-2003, 06:04 PM
lol, where do you work, and i need a "project", can you suggest something for a "n00b"?
I would for catering by Jill... get $100 plus tips for like 6 -7 hours of giving people mashed potatoes.. its great..
and about a project for you... you can design me an 87x signature for starters lol.. . but seriously.. i really can't think of anything that would be easy and not cost a billion dollars to make..
lightdarkness
12-11-2003, 06:26 PM
ok, made that sig for you
LMAO
Cenright
12-11-2003, 06:42 PM
Ok 87x,
There are a certain amount of sensors all hooked to the same thread. Each thread hosts about 7 keys. You can press 2 keys that are on the same thread. That is why when you start pressing a lot of keys, if you hit 3 on the same thread, it bogs up the keyboard and doesnt work. What you have to do is follow the dots and then you only have to use the threads that are for your arrow keys. I will edit your pictures for you to show you.
-Edit-
As you can see, the Functions buttons at the top are on the same few threads because you never need to press more that 2 of them at a time. You can see that the CTRL, ALT, and SHIFT are all on different threads.
-Edit-
When you cut out all the bad threads, leave a good amount of it left at the base (without leaving any of the buttons) so that you don't run into messing anything.
right.. so its what i figured.... but i was thinking.. and came up with a light switch theory..
have a metal plate placed on the bootm of the button, have a sensor placed a couple centimeters away either ontop of a spring or if not some other place... make it a closed circuit.. when the sensor and metal plate touch it creates a closed cicuit route that registers you have hit the button... much like a light switch... when the two metals come incontact with each other on the light switch a ciruict is made and the light switch comes on.. tell me what you think
RobbyZero
12-12-2003, 08:48 AM
That sounds good,every button yo hit lights up right? Cause that's pretty clever.
Keep up the good work man!
Cenright
12-16-2003, 11:42 PM
It sounds like it would work... just make sure to use LEDs.
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