Revolutionary Etude (12 or 13)

[jprox445]

I'm sorry but I can not go on any long without this matter being dealt with, Revolutionary etude is By far one of the most BURTAL gurus we have! I it just loaded with mini jacks in the most unforgivable places and Extremly long Jumpjacks through one point i the song! it also has a transition between several jacks and trills at the end that just looks cluster ****ed and this song barley has an AAA's to be called a Guru anymore...

[Cyth The Raccoon]

While I do agree that it is a lot harder than most Guru's I have played thus far, I do have to disagree that it is on the same playing field as Death Piano/RATO. While it has awkward jacks, it's really about memorization and speed. It goes at a slow BPM compared to most (all?) Guru songs, and is only difficult to PA/read if you haven't figured out the patterns yet.

I've read here that the difficulty of a song is based on how easy it is to combo/pass instead of PA. With that in consideration, I think it should stay a Guru. If difficulty went by PA, though, I would say 13. n.n

[DossarLX ODI]

Only reason I would see for Revolutionary Etude being a 12 is that its framers are nice. Being at 148 bpm, there isn't a ton of 4/3 frame jack mix crap screwing up a lot of the parts (the file is mainly 3 framers). But other than that, when you include the annoying background (I had to use the Velocity noteskin for this one), offsyncness (had to do sound off), the jackass anchors (had to use m,./ to bypass it), and the heavy amount of long jacking with transitions, this is most definitely a 13.

Also, no more saying DP is the 13 cutoff. Frederic54 is right that it was never the designated cutoff for a 13 - it's just that 13 has been a joke scale and not used properly. You CANNOT compare Revo to something like Lolo, you just can't.

[TC_Halogen]

In terms of combo scoring, even mashing doesn't guarantee a high success rate. In any event, straight 16th jumps, only blue notes, a horrible colored background... etc.

EDIT: by the way, advocating a 13

[nois-or-e]

I'd like to remind people that when placing a vote in any of the threads in this subforum, definitive reasoning and references are required. Simply stating 'it is a 12/13', or saying 'i cant read it so it is a 12/13' is not definitive reasoning, and gives no reference to the chart/patterns/speed/density/or any other factors which could back-up your claims.

[hi19hi19]

*sigh* okay I'll do this the official way.

Blue note syndrome, strange background, complete irrelevance of the chart to the music... what am I forgetting...
Right, the LONGASS JUMPJACKS that are faster than Death piano and with more difficult transitions... yeah it's a 13.

[bballa48]

I'd like to remind people that when placing a vote in any of the threads in this subforum, definitive reasoning and references are required. Simply stating 'it is a 12/13', or saying 'i cant read it so it is a 12/13' is not definitive reasoning, and gives no reference to the chart/patterns/speed/density/or any other factors which could back-up your claims.

I think this is going to severely hamper people from voting. I personally never make references to BPM, patterns, etc. when justifying difficulty. Why can't we just "go on feel" so to speak? I played it, and it was incredibly difficult, far and away more difficult than every other 12. Why is that not enough?

But for now I will appease.... I feel it is a 13 because of the background and ridiculously long jacks with nasty anchor patterns.

[nois-or-e]

I think this is going to severely hamper people from voting. I personally never make references to BPM, patterns, etc. when justifying difficulty. Why can't we just "go on feel" so to speak?

- When you vote, reasons for your difficulty choice are required. Difficulties are relative parameters, so you need to determine the difficulty ratings by comparing the song with other ingame songs based on Technical factors (BPM, framers, patterns, length, TPS, etc), and Statistic factors (# of AAAs, # of SDGs, # of FCs, PA of Rank 10, 50, 100, etc). It's sometimes quite subjective but you can use your own AVERAGE scores of songs in the same condition as sub-factors too.
Reference songs for difficulties are listed in this thread (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=121904).

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It is definitely a 13, but I think we are waiting to define the 12/13 line before it gets officially bumped.

...Non-voting posts will be moved to the discussion thread, or just be deleted.

If you'd like to participate in the discussion of a definitive line between FGO/FSO, there is a thread (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=121904) specifically for that. Unfortunately, your original post contained no legitimate points aside from "It is definitely a 13". Which according to the subforum stickies, is not a valid post, and will be deleted. Participants of these threads need to understand that your valid and evidence-backed opinions will have a bearing on whether files go up or down a difficulty, so the posts here are to be taken quite seriously. And as the stickies have mentioned, this subforum should be treated much like CT is treated in the way of posting etiquette.

[Reshiram]

Okay. Revo is a 13. THE starting point to all 13's, not higher than Death Piano, but still...

Technically speaking, the background IS as much a part of the level as the notes themselves. So is the blue note syndrome, and the offsync stepchart. They may not be anything arrow-wise, but they toy with the eyes and certainly, as many players of P4U will attest, THAT combination is one of the most deadly to many a score on this file. However, that's not even the tip of the iceberg.
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The arrows themselves. It starts off pretty simply with 16th stream, a bit of a nuisance due to the awkward flow but doable, if repetitive. After about 450 notes of that, we add some jumps and jacks to the mix during the streams. It's harder now but okay, a lot of us can handle this. About 50 notes later, it's all on the right hand, and you're 1-handed trilling with jacks and the occasional (14) jump inside the jacks, before a series of four-note jacks alternating columns.

After the jumpstream following that and the slowdown, it goes even more offsync and adds du-du-DUH patterns in a jumpstream pattern before a quick revert to more bad-flowing 16th stream before some Nova Pulser 12344321 rhythms come in. Then more weird trill-to-jack/jump transitions into weird stream/JS. Then it just gets even stupider, with constant jacks with 8th jumps and...

1100 combo. Huh boy. From here on out, it's almost pure jumpjacks for nearly 200 notes Starts off simple with repeating jumps, then it switches to atrociously anchored jacks that make AIM Anthem seem like Free Space. Then you get a bit of a breather when it returns to plain speed, though it doesn't help when weird jacknotes come into play during the streams. Then a bit more of those anchors before it suddenly stops at 1549 combo.

But you're not done! After a few seconds to catch up, here comes the ending glut. Mostly it's just jumps and jacks, but those anchors are ASS to hit properly. Plus, you're probably tired from the huge thing of jumpjacks from earlier, so... you get lax. Big mistake.

So, it follows a sort of climax theory: it's about a 7 at the start, and during the gluts it's well into the 13ish. You might claim it's even 12ish during some of the one-handed crap. All are true. Without a background and BNS, this is nothing more than a 12. But combined with crappy, nigh uncheatable patterns and an endurance smackdown of jumpjacks, Revo is the low 13 we've been searching for.
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Revo's been out for nearly 9 years. It was technically AAA'able even in the days of avmisses, even though no one actually did so. Even in the years post avmiss-removal, this song only has 2 AAAs, and those are by MrRubix and Dossar, two well-known masters of AAAing what we've all deemed impossible. It has only 5 scores of SDG or better. Rank 10 is a score of over 30 goods. Rank 25 is over 100 goods. Rank 50 is over 200 goods. Rank 100 is over 1000 goods. And rank 200 probably isn't an FC at all, seeing as there's only 157 FC's as I type the post. And some of those may have even come during avmiss era.

All in all, I vote baseline 13. Have fun.

[reuben_tate]

I'd say a 13. Blue note syndrome + funky background + long jumpjacks + atrocious anchored jacks + current scores on the leaderboard as described by Reshiram = 13.

[popsicle_3000]

At first, i didn't think this song as a 13. the hard parts are basically clumped into a few sections, with reasonably easy sections in between.
BUT: blue notes making reading a *&^%*, background and the bloody fast jacks push this to a 13 i think.
although, i dont think we should be changing synthfiles...

[hi19hi19]

Bumping this because I REALLY think this needs to be moved to 13 (along with select other files such as party 4u -holy nite mix- v1) to start redefining the cutoff between 12/13

[bmah]

I've already strongly considered this for a change, but the reason it hasn't been changed yet was due to fact that lvl 13 difficulties haven't been well-defined yet. It'll most likely be changed in the future though. If FFR stuck with only 13 difficulties (and I was hoping for at least 1-15), then I would definitely go for it. Gotta consult jx more (or you guys open further discussion) regarding the lvl 13 realm.

[hi19hi19]

the reason it hasn't been changed yet was due to fact that lvl 13 difficulties haven't been well-defined yet.

Well, the reason I bumped was to spur discussion about getting them defined already! :P

[reuben_tate]

Nice bump. Now that Bmah is actually changing some of these song difficulties, hopefully we can get more discussion in this sub-forum going. Anyways, I'm going with 13 for all the reasons stated above.

[Elite Ninja]

Agree with it being a 13. It was one of the last FGOs I needed to FC because it takes a lot of attention and mashing for the FC took many tries.

[EzExZeRo7497]

Voting for baseline 13. With terrible bootrap jumpjacks, obscenely bright BG and blue notes, it's hard enough to score. Hell, even if there was no BG and coloured notes I'd still say it pushes 13 territory.

[justin_ator]

I would agree this is a 13, to be honest. The patterns are really strange and combined with a background and offsync notes, it makes the file total aids. Aids + the difficulty of the file otherwise is a pretty good combination for a 13 if you ask me.

[Choofers]

we need to make a new difficulty for a0 files

[Herogashix]

It pushes 13 since it's a file that's made from Arch0wl's anus, but I wouldn't say it's fully a 13. It's high 12 at best. You guys are just mad cause you can't play it because of the bg.

[bmah]

Difficulty has been changed from 12 ---> 13.